Saga The Reboot Question

There are some fantastic effects out there in some of the big blockbusters, in particular space battles, space ships and their movement. The robot effects in transformers are excellent. But there comes the point in some of these films where the effects are just boring and as mentioned earlier they detract from the film and they have no soul. As an example, I watched Man of Steel this weekend, I really enjoyed the film until you get to the end special effects-fest. Lots of buildings collapsing, tentacled ships fighting, it didn't convince me, it was boring, it was distracting and I had in my mind that it was there for the sake of it. Thats true for many of the comic book films IMO. Despite being cutting edge these days I think some of the effects look bad in some cases and equally as bad as say a stop motion model from 30+ years ago.

Someone made a good point earlier that the PT has some great effects, yet overall they are not as good films as the originals. Thats so true and shows that movie making shouldn't be judged purely on how good the effects are. But equally the PT has some effects that are bad to my eyes and unconvincing. So modern effects are not infallible.

Maybe its an age thing though? My kids watch old films including the OT and although they like it, they comment on some of the effects, they watch older movies like the Harryhausen films and again the effects are rubbish to them.

To me the space battles in the OT hold up really well now. Thats my honest view of them, they are still exciting now. I totally agree that a lot of the other effects in the OT look old, they will do because they are old, but I don't think thats a bad thing and they are far from god awful. Of course its all subjective.

I don't know how old you are or if you saw them back in the day when these were cutting edge, if so did you think they were god awful in 77, 80 & 83?

But again I go back to the age thing, maybe I watch these films still in the mindset when I first watched them and they still convince me, they still engross me and make me believe. Thats not nostalgia, thats good movie making in my eyes.

If the motivation to remake SW would be purely based on using supposed better effects then I hope they don't do it.

 

But this isn't back in the day, this is now, and now they look awful lol.

That the visuals on a set of movies that predate my birth by 10 years is old looking now, 21 years after it, is not an opinion. It's a god damn fact whether you like it or not, suck it up. There quite frankly isn't a single movie from that time that doesn't look bad now.

And it's irrelevant what "much" of the film and Star Wars communities thinks if what they think is wrong, it's also more irrelevant since that's a very vocal, and highly illogical minority and outside of that the prequel era has done fantastic, which they wouldn't have if "much" of the film and SW community hated them.

And great way to tell me not to state my opinions as an absolute, and then proceed to write everything else in your post as if it were.

 

And your opinion on black and white films Cyreides? Are those types of movies outdated as well? JW.

 

Depends.

 

On?

 

Is it an older movie that's black and white or...?

 

You kind of took my quote out of context, so here's the question for you again:

"I don't know how old you are or if you saw them back in the day when these were cutting edge, if so did you think they were god awful in 77, 80 & 83?"

I'm assuming you didn't?

But it must be an age thing. You come across as being much younger.

 

I stated that an opinion just as you did. I said that the prequels are good films but they aren't as good. That's an opinion. You said that the effects were crap. That's an opinion of yours that I disagree with.

And I think you need to get together what "minority" you're talking about. That is you speaking in an absolute. Most of the Star Wars community from what I've seen prefers the originals. I don't know if you're referring to a minority of the people in the world, but most people in the world do not think of films comparatively because films don't matter as much to them. They find enjoyment in them but they do not dedicate a large amount of time to assessing these films. That means that their opinion simply isn't as developed as that of someone in the business.

And what exactly is so "fantastic" about the prequels in opposition to the OT? The PT is sometimes very poorly acted, very poorly staged, and very poorly written. That's a good majority of the creative process of movie making, I think. I have opinions on Lucas being a better producer than director but that is irrelevant. Let me get back to effects.

You will find many to oppose you on this. Quite frankly, I think you're being inflammatory. Most people are likely to get angry when you say that a film they love looks bad. Especially when it's been heralded as one of the best films of all time for the past 30 years. In fact, there are many critics and general people that will tell you that, barring Schindler's List, no film has came out since 1977 that is better than Star Wars. Star Wars changed cinema forever. Particularly in the effects department. ILM began a new era of special effects for decades to come. Lucas revolutionized cinema! There are documentaries about this all over the place -- with professionals that have been in the business for decades, some as long as half a century. Professionals such as Steven Spielberg have said that Lucas' effects were unmatched for decades. They look old, sure. But they're classic. They have an organic quality that is believable and real. I would really challenge anyone that tells me that they can feel the emotion conveyed by Watto in TPM, or Dexter Jettster in AOTC.

This is a really good comparison. Go and watch the SE of A New Hope. Any of them will do. Look at Jabba. He looks awful, especially in the 98 version. He looks okay in 2004 and the Bluray, but nothing like Jabba as a, ya know, REAL EFFECT in ROTJ.

And if you prefer new cinema, then you have Star Wars to thank. Were it not for Star Wars, films like Mean Streets could possibly still be the norm. I like Mean Streets, but I would think you don't because you've shown you have a distaste for old films in general. Were it not for Star Wars, films like Ghostbusters and Back to the Future would not exist. Period.

You're saying that we have a bias against the new films, but it's clear that you don't like old ones. Even when asked if you like Black and White films, you asked if they were old. Old films are not bad. Creatively speaking, they are more original than anything that has come out in the last 10-15 years. And I think you have to be pretty naive to say that Star Wars, a film that was released 37 years ago, is old. I don't know how old you are, but I miss 37 by a large number, and I in no way think 37 is "old."

And you can say all day long that all I crave is nostalgia. But it's not true, given that I was not born in the 70s or 80s. I was born in the 90s, and I saw TPM first. I saw them all prior to seeing ROTS in theaters, but I saw a prequel before anything in the OT, and even as a small child I preferred the OT by a long-shot. I can go on and on as to why the prequels are inferior. And if prompted, I will. As I've previously stated, the prequels are good films (I'd even say that ROTS is a great film, maybe as good as ROTJ) but overall as a trilogy they fall flat to the originals in every capacity.

 

Ultimately, as a fan of all 6 movies, I hope that none of them get rebooted, whether it be because of visuals, or dialogue, or whatever. lol

 

Mod edit: I told you to drop the personal attacks.

 

I'm sure we will all miss your trolling comments in which you stated that one of the things we love most was awful.

Adieu.



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Some well articulated and reasoned points on here, unfortunately some not so well made too.

 

Back on topic, folks

 

A reboot would be interesting from the point of view of telling the story in a more consistent, unified way, in terms of story and visuals. In terms of improving individual films, in my opinion TESB is close to perfect and ANH was a perfect storm. All of the others could probably be improved upon.

 

I think all of them could be improved yet I also think that they loose their spirit the more they're messed with. A film being dated isn't so horrible. I think it'd be good to respect a thing for when it's done rather than it must be constantly revamped.

 

The worst thing to me about rebooting the movies would be the need to create a more consistent (as in, nothing changes) visual style. Lose the shift, jarring as it may be to some, in style that comes between the two trilogies and you lose a lot of what truly resonates with me. The visuals tell the story just as much as the dialogue does.

 

I came in here to post this but now I don't need to.

 

I agree that if we were to reboot some of them, plot points could be changed to make things more consistent. For instance:

1.) Leia remembers her mother in Return of the Jedi. But her mother died when she was literally a newborn. How could she remember? Perhaps if they were to reboot the series, they could either remove that line or make Luke and Leia already a few years old or so at the beginning of Rots, making them born around the time of the beginning of the Clone Wars.

2.) Midi-Chlorians go bye-bye.

3.) Jar Jar serves a role more as he did in Attack of the Clones in The Phantom Menace. I know that he was supposed to be comedic. and I do actually like him, but I feel that maybe the film could appeal to more of the older crowd if he was toned down.

4.) I would be in favor of Mace Windu being cast as Samuel L. Jackson again. This time he would be a little older, a little wiser. But he needs to have dialog that is worthy of him. If you've seen him in Snakes on a Plane, Django, Pulp Fiction, etc, you know that he can deliver over-blown dialog well while still making a huge presence on the film. He was always a squandered opportunity for me.

5.) Natalie Portman, I feel, can now play Padme to her fullest. If she's given a nail-biting dilemma to save her people, she'll be great. She's not so good in the romance scenes, but it is arguable to say that was due to her acting and Lucas' directing. If they go the route of having the decoys again, Keira Knightley is a must. They look scary alike!

6.) I would prefer if Yoda was more like he was in ESB in AOTC. I feel like him fighting in ROTS is necessary, but it should be an act of desperation. I'm not sure if I like him fighting the Emperor or not, but I definitely like that he had to pull the saber out to avoid his own demise on Kashyyyk.

7.) Stylistically, it would be nice if the entire PT fit together as the OT does. AOTC and ROTS basically do fit, but TPM is sort of the black sheep of the series. It uses CG and practicals, and pretty well I must say. Stylistically, it's my favorite of the PT. Yoda (the original, Pre-Bluray Yoda) in TPM is fascinating to look at. I wish the CGI Yoda would have been based more on him than Yoda from ESB and ROTJ. It would have been nice if there were some transition. However, the bluray choice isn't necessarily a bad one, as it makes him fit the others. But I must say that he's always been more believable to me as a puppet. Watto was CG, but not really bad CG. He wasn't a main character anyway, so it's not like he really has to be emotional.

8.) If we're re-doing ROTJ, than there are vast improvements to be done to Han's escape. But the ending I feel should be untouched, with perhaps the exception of making the Ewoks a little more threatening. Imagine if they were more brutal. In their original incarnation, they are basically teddy bears. It's sort of like Winnie the Pooh taking down the Empire. But brutal, militaristic teddy bears? That I can go with.

This is a short list of the things that immediately come to mind. For me, 1-3 and 6 can be improved on. 4 and 5 truly are some of the best films ever made, and I feel that remaking them would be sacrilege.

 

WriterMan You've got some interesting ideas there for sure.

And of course, like many people, if I were the one in charge of the movies, I would have done some things differently as well.

I think these things are fun to discuss. And I also enjoy seeing what people can do with fan-edits.

But despite all that, I wouldn't want the movies to be replaced. Despite their flaws, there's so much that's great and iconic in all 6 of the movies, that I feel any reboot would compromise them.

 

Come to think of it, maybe they should reboot the OT and PT. They already threw out the entirety of the EU, and the only reason the movies are exempt is because there's a whole lot more people who watched and remember the films. But if they really want to wipe the slate clean to tell their own story, then just get rid of everything, movies and all...at least that way the "old" Star Wars gets to remain whole.

 

Ooh I dunno. I mean I get what you're saying but, to me that would just be vastly more painful than what happened with the EU. The whole EU retcon had me with very mixed emotions. I loved parts of the EU, and I hated parts. lol But the movies? I love all 6 of them. To see them get replaced?

... a nightmare. lol

 

I agree. None of the previous six SW movies are perfect. Each one has its flaws. But I don't see the need to "reboot" the saga in order to smooth out these flaws. Chances are . . . new flaws will flare up in the "reboot", which I believe will include the disappearance of the spirit from the original six films.

The Force. Leia's "memories" include vague images and feelings. I suspect Bail and Breha told her about Leia . . . to a certain extent.