ST The Reception of The Last Jedi vs The Empire Strikes Back

If i am watching a tv show, like for example Narcos, that is based in real life, and someone starts using the force, then, the suspension of disbelief is canceled and i turn off the show.

But, if i am watching a movie in which it lives within other movies where slugs can live in outer space, and little green men can lift ships with the power of their minds, then the same suspension of disbelief I use for that one movie, i will certainly apply to another movie within it's universe.

 

Okay, let's see

1) How are we to believe that this base was built in these kinds of weather conditions with no contractors involved who would know the location of such a base? This is a Rebellion movement. Wouldn’t the people capable of building a base in that location be the first place the Empire would shake down for answers?

The Alliance is composed of volunteers from many worlds and all walks of life. Surely there are people that have the necessary skills to assemble the power generator and to carve the ice corridors and hangars with lasers.

2) Why is someone as important as Luke heading out to check out an asteroid? If it’s more than that he’s alone anyway.

Obviously that has been done before by others and without incidents, and it just happened to be Luke's turn for patrol duty (as a pilot he had little or nothing to do)

3) How are Tauntauns native to Hoth with no other food source in these conditions?

That's inconclusive. According to Ralph McQuarrie there are underground areas with plantlife or the Tauntauns are carnivores, too.


IIRC the novelization said that it was a dying planet with little to no considerable wildlife.

4) If they’re native to Hoth how do they die before humans in parkas in the cold?

Luke's Tauntaun was killed by a Wampa, Han's Tauntaun was obviously driven to exhaustion (that's why it finally died).

5) How did Luke learn to ride Tauntaun? Luke grew up on a desert planet without them and it’s never shown on screen how he became such an expert.

I learned to ride a horse in a matter of a few weeks (weekends only), so why shouldn't Luke be able to quickly learn how to ride a Tauntaun?

6) In these conditions how is relying on an animal that can die sooner than a human can a more reliable and trustworthy way to travel then any other powered vehicle which can provide warmth?

HAN Are the speeders ready?

DECK OFFICER Not yet. We're having some trouble
adapting them to the cold.

7) How does the Wampa survive in the Tauntauns are all domesticated by the Rebels?

Say again?

8) Why haven’t the Rebels killed the Wampa given its potential to swipe any of them off of a Tauntaun and eat them.

The way it appears in the film that didn't have an encounter with the Wampas, yet.

9) How does the Wampa stick it’s prey upside down?

You'd need to ask a Wampa.

10) How did Luke move the saber with only his mind? When did he learn this trick and from who?

Unknown, but in Yoda's hut he claims he's learned so much in the meantime. Possibly including Force telekinesis.

11) Why aren’t there better tracking systems or communications systems for this climate?

I'll tell you when I get back from the GFFA.

12) What plan did the Rebels have if the cables wouldn’t have worked?

Then they would have relied entirely on their artillery to immobilize the Snow Walkers by crippling their joints (the Rogue One filmmakers understood the strategy and featured it more graphically)

13) How are the people in the trench really helping standing and waiting? Shouldn’t they also be in vehicles blasting while the walkers are still far away?

See 12, they relied on the immobilization of the Snow Walkers which then would have offloaded the snowtroopers so they could confront these before they reached Echo Base.

14) The Walkers don’t have rear facing weaponry. Why doesn’t everyone fly left and right and come back around and flank them from behind and hover and blast them from up top?

What difference would that have made?

LUKE That armor's too strong for
blasters.

15) The ion cannon that can be shot through a shield that won’t allow shots in was incredibly powerful and damaged the Destroyer. Want not shoot it more often at other targets?

The way it apparently had to be installed didn't allow for a 360° radius, so the Star Destroyers could avoid it (the ion cannon was supposed to clear the path for escaping ships)



16) Yoda thinks Luke is too old to begin training but Obi-Wan waits 3 years after ANH to start and decides to tell him to do so in the middle of the war randomly?

From the film itself the 3 year time difference is not evident, and what difference does it really make whether Luke started at 20 or 23 years of age? (considering that according to the PT you normally start at a much, much younger age)

17) The heroes of the past war can just come and go as they please in this Rebellion effort and provide no updates? What’s to stop people from going AWOL or deserting and just saying “I wanted to go learn something? Or I thought it better to go hang out for a while with an old friend?”

I think because of Luke's accomplishment in ANH he was entitled to this kind of privilege.

18) The blockade is a joke. A vast Empire has them cornered at Hoth and everyone significant escapes.

Because...Millennium Falcon

19) The asteroid scene and the part about getting out into the Exogorth is just filler with questionable logistics.

Agreed, not a great OT moment regarding scientific plausibilities.

20) If Vader can sense Luke why doesn’t he just follow him with his own convoy?

This is still an unsettled and unanswered (*cough*) question, i.e. whether Vader thought Luke was on the Falcon (earliers ESB draft) or whether he wanted to capture his friends as bait (ESB radio drama).

21) If Walkers can be lassoed why isn’t everyone doing this in the galaxy? Why aren’t there orbs or nets or drones who just circle and lasso walkers, rendering them useless?

Who says these things do not exist, we just haven't seen them. And not everybody may be able to afford or use such things (e.g. Ewoks)

 

Magic A is Magic A. If Magic A becomes Magic B in the sequel, I will certainly find the suspension of disbelief to be broken because the films themselves don't maintain consistency with each other.

A breathable atmosphere in a slug is silly, but it doesn't take up much of the screen time nor is it that essential to the plot. Compare that to the larger plot issue with the Space Chase. In TESB, the Star Destroyers cornered the Millennium Falcon into an asteroid field, but they can't hope to catch them there because the asteroids can wreck the Star Destroyers and there are too many hiding spots for the Millennium Falcon. The situation is understandable, and Vader is creative enough to hire Bounty Hunters for this scenario. Whereas in TLJ, the Supremacy cannot catch up to the Raddus for reasons that are contrived. Apparently the FO cares too much about their TIE fighters despite showing no care about their dead Stormtroopers (Finn defected for a reason), which is why they don't send in the TIE fighters to finish for the Raddus. Hux is shown to be angry that they cannot catch up to the Raddus, implying that he is pragmatic and seeks efficiently, but isn't creative enough of trying to have other Star Destroyers appear from the other side to cut off the Raddus's escape route (this is simple pack hunting 101) or try to find mercenaries with faster ships that can do the dirty work for them.

Similar situations and plot issues don't really alleviate the problems that TLJ as much as it just makes critics focus on the difference between the two. That's why when people try to compare TLJ to TESB, it is bound to lead to comparisons of how they differ rather than how they are the same.

This is also why I found comparisons of TESB to AOTC to be rather silly, especially people somehow tout that the middle segment is supposed to be the darkest chapter when everyone should know how the third episode will end (Episode III was always meant to be the darkest chapter with the rise of Darth Vader).

 

Quite. The Slug gets a pass for whimsical reasons, as does the little green man.

Importantly, though, a viewer only ever suspends disbelief for the purpose of enjoyment and escapism.

I enjoyed the little green man more than the horsey things.

If the enjoyment isn't there, and you are taken out of the movie it falls apart very quickly.

 

For all of these great replies and the time you put into these!

The frustrating part is that even after these are addressed some haters will just continue to copy and paste them as though they aren’t over and over and over. Some aren’t interested in liking the movie more. Even if comparisons or answers are provided. Many won’t say “You know what? Those make sense. Thanks for that. I think that works for me well enough to enjoy this better.” It’s not about that for some. It’s just about trying to tar and feather a new Star Wars film by any means necessary unfortunately for as many people as who will listen to the nitpicks. Even though we could do the same to all Star Wars films.

However, you never know if there is someone out there who’s simply looking for new ways to better enjoy their passion of Star Wars and simply wants some help seeing it differently and for that reason it’s still worth it.

Even if some fans read it and realize they’re being unreasonably critical of only the newer films, or likes some of your responses enough to suspend disbelief better it’s worth it. Star Wars is too special an experience to not at least try to.

EDIT: And by the way... I do like some of those replies for Empire. I hadn’t thought to criticize Empire much so I hadn’t really tried to. However, when one sets out to criticize most of Star Wars they can. There may be decent replies gathered over the decades the earlier films have been out and everything that’s been said to help over that span, or concept art explanations, or novelizations but there are things to question based on what’s on screen if one really wants to for anything.

What happened with TLJ is that some Luke fans, and Legends fans, and R-Wing fans had more reasons than usual to do so for an entire film, and those motivations along with the increased clickbait culture we live in, leads to more bashing overall because the people making videos and the Iike are adults who didn’t grow up with this ST. I would wager kids aged 8-15 en masse, male and female, over a huge sample of the population will grow up enjoying the ST the same way many of us did the OT or others did the PT. The Star Wars we grow up with will always seem different for us growing up with it.

 

This reminds me of Sir Alec Guinness how he creatively avoided saying more "mumbojumbo" than he could bear: "Can't the green little thing not say that instead..."

You do now that this is from a scene in Citizen Kane where Charles Foster Kane is the only one applauding?

 

Isn't the whole reason for them wearing masks, the fact that the atmosphere isn't breathable - either the wrong gases, or the gases are too thin?

It's lack of pressure, not gas composition, that's the problem.

 

I made a comment on a forum once about Indy 4 saying that I didn't feel like I could suspend my belief for aliens in an Indy film and it ruined it for me. Someone (who liked the film) replied saying that the fault was with me, because if I can believe in religious artifacts that can give eternal life or create some kind of etheral phantom then why can't I believe in the aliens? Some people accepted it and some didn't, but I struggled to get past it. But the same applies to every single film made, it connects with some people and not others. I accept that every film maker is hoping that the film resonates with as many people as possible, but the reality is that its impossible for that to happen. So one persons fantastic film is anothers poor film and its all subjective as to whether thats the films fault or not.

 

My bad, but my point still remains.

 

My usual resolution for "interior of space slug" issues is

"The Falcon can project its artificial gravity beyond its hull- so that everything near the Falcon behaves like it's in full gravity."

Also, as we see in TLJ, shields can be quite a long way beyond the hull - and if the Falcon has shields up, it may be able to partially contain some of its atmosphere when the boarding ramp is open. Thus, Our Heroes don't suffer decompression damage, while walking around a few feet away from the Falcon.

 

When some of us post things like the space slug in ESB, its not that we don't like it. It's the opposite, we love it! We have accepted it and apply the same reasoning you just created to things we loved in TLJ.

 

It's completely asinine, lol. Most of the points are either completely misunderstood or flat out incorrect. It's even more hilarious because half of the 'logic' issues require a bending of logic in order to actually be comprehended.

It's exactly the type of dumb list you'd expect from some random youtube account.

It's okay to dislike a movie. It's not okay to attempt to nitpick and find 'something wrong' with each and every scene in the movie while dismissing things that were clearly in the movie (or not in the movie), completely ignoring the film's intent, or declaring opinion as fact.

 

I do. It’s one of my favorite films of all time. I own it on VHS even to give perspective. Even when that was hard to get. It’s even more than that but we won’t get into it here. It’s still a fun gif.

It’s my post. It’s me clapping.

 

I kind of agree with you on this. I fall in the very small category that I like to call "complainers who enjoyed the movie", so I basically have to fight with everyone, but I also had a problem with the chase.

As it started, asking myself what else could Hux do instead of just waiting came very natural, so it ended up being a brief distraction. Thankfully, I said "whatever" and I enjoyed the drama. I recognize, though, that a great movie is supposed to have the least possible number of whatever moments.
For my personal taste ESB had much less moments like that, but it's also true that I watched it when I was very young, so maybe I was less capable of questioning the plausibility of the movie... It's hard to tell...

 

The shields in Star Wars have never made any sense, it would be more logical if shields didn't exist at all in the Star Wars universe but they are referenced in dialogue and plot points.

X-Wings can fly through the Death Star's shields in ANH to do the trench run but X-Wings can't fly through the Death Star 2 shield and need Han to disable it?

Maybe planetary based shields are different?

but it still doesn't make sense since those AT-AT and AT-ST's had to get through the planetary shield on Hoth in ESB and going by TPM physical objects can go through shields, only laser beams are blocked. So why didn't the X-Wings in ROTJ just fly through the Death Star shield?, because of plot, they wanted Han and Leia doing something important. This opens up all sorts of nitpicking issues, like Hoth's shield being able to defect any bombardment except of course torpedos or missiles which should have been able to penetrate the shield like the AT-ATs/AT-STs did.

Lucas had a good answer for all this nitpicking, Star Wars is just a story being told by an unreliable narrator, R2D2.

 

The idea seems to be that only extremely slow objects can get through the shield - like in Dune - if the object is too fast it will bounce off (and if much too fast, shatter or explode).

 

You guys take the easy road again, not addressing the specific problems, just dismissing them as "asinine."

Outrageous. I spent tons of time cutting out all the ones that are "misunderstood" or flat out incorrect; my list is no longer anything taken directly from a "dumb YouTube account"; it's my own production. The only asinine thing I see is you two's crazy level of defense of pretty much every part of the movie. It's OK to admit it has lots of flaws and still enjoy it, you know. You could do that and carry more legitimacy.

 

Sure, I'll address them later. I don't have time to right now.

 

Totally agree, which is why I cut out over 75% of the BS.

 

I'm not demanding you do, just saying it's so easy to take a broad swipe and dismiss them all with one sentence. In my view, they are mostly elements and logical issues that make the story poorly developed. They're not just reasons I don't like the movie. Those were listed below in bulleted lists, separate from the 41 numbered issues. If you disagree, fine...I'm not out to change your mind; just wanted to share that since there seemed to be some demand for it.

 

i responded to your 41 points...

 

Understood - and I didn't realize that this was your compiled list as opposed to the one on youtube. That's my mistake, I apologize and I retract that middle statement I made. I would like to respond to them though, if I can find time today.

 

OK, will address each point - in bold italics - as fairly as possible.

41 "Logical" Issues in The Last Jedi:

In my opinion, most of these are nitpicks, not actual "logical" issues. The exact same issues can be found in every SW film if you are trying to find them.

1. How has the FO achieved galactic domination in a few days despite appearing relatively small and losing their main base in TFA, and lacking infrastructure on planets throughout the galaxy? (world-building issue)

This is explained in both TFA and TLJ. TFA makes it clear (in Hux's speech and Threepio's line about the Republic fleet) that the SKB attack will wipe out the New Republic - the senate and the fleet. The crawl of TLJ and Rey's subsequent dialogue, as well as the lack of a response from any other potetnial resistance allies - makes it clear exactly what the stakes are - that the FO's merciless legions are sweeping through the galaxy and taking control. This is an ongoing process that will be over within weeks unless Resistance is mounted. The only thing not directly addressed is the impact that the lack of SKB will have, but the film then itself becomes the answer to that question. FO resources are clearly strong enough to absorb that loss, just as the Empire was able to withstand the loss of the first Death Star without its grip loosening.

1. Why don't Hux and Canady shoot Poe immediately if they declare he's in attack position? (leads to a prank call and your momma joke)

Because Hux arrogantly assumes that a single fighter won't be a threat to them. This is not "hollow writing", this is thematic and also in line with every SW film to date and pretty much every other film in this kind of genre. If you upheld your logic, Poe would be destroyed and the Resistance would be blown away. This seems an unfair and self-defeating demand to place upon the film. It's also not unreasonable for Hux to believe that one threat should pose little direct threat. See Tarkin in ANH who constantly underestimates the Rebel threat, Ozzel in ESB, the Jedi in the entirety of the PT or Palpatine in ROTJ when an entire legion of his finest troops is defeated by a tribe of teddy bears.

1. Why are the dreadnaught surface cannons incapable of hitting Poe, and why is Hux not aware of this design flaw?

"Why do the Star Destroyers and TIE fighters and Stormtroopers not always hit our heroes every time they shoot? Why do the bad guys not train more to become better shots and instantly kill the good guys?"

1. Why are there no shields on the dreadnaught to protect it?

Have we seen any laser turrets protected by shields in the saga? Or shields that protect against the previously unwitnessed firepower of that bomber payload?

1. How does one TIE fighter crashing into one bomber immediately cause 4 bombers to blow up?

I guess that bomber payload is hugely powerful. Once the tie crashes into the open bay (are the bombs armed, I can't remember) then the explosives we're dealing with are clearly hugely damaging.

1. How does Hux know all about hyperspace tracking, but Snoke, the mastermind, does not?

I guess Hux like to present some of his strategies as fait accompli, almost like Tarkin or Krennic with the DS. Presumably you've seen plenty of films where a plan is presented to the overall commander rather than every aspect of a strategy coming from the top down? I have to say at this point, it really looks like you're looking to create problems that the film is not even vaguely hinting at. And if you were to apply this perspective to any film, let alone any SW film, you would find teh same issues.

1. How does Finn have no lasting injuries or problems from his lightsaber slice to the back in TFA?

How does Luke shrug off the lack of a hand at the end of ESB? Or shrug off exposure and the Wampa attack? Maybe that bacta suit and the fact that DR Kalonia told Rey Finn would be OK suggests medical care in the GFFA is pretty good.

1. How does Kylo shoot 2 missiles through the deflector shield on the Raddus hangar?

Does the film state what the defector shield status on the Raddus hangar is? Does the film state that the shields are up over the hangar? Could we assume the shields are down ready for the fighters to depart the hangar. It's not as if we haven't seen weaponry damage capital ships before.

1. How does Leia survive the lack of oxygen in space despite there being no Force "field" around her, and how does she open the door to get back in?

It's humanly possible to survive in space for up to about 3 minutes. I can't remember the specifics of the scene re the doors.

1. Why aren't Poe, Finn, and Connix blown out into space when the door opens to let Leia in?

I'm going to assume there was some kind of system to stop that happening. Rather than assuming that was not the case and that the writer simply forgot to show that film-ending event happening. This may be why I enjoy the film more than you

1. Why are the FO's lasers "ineffective" at the distance they trail the Raddus?

No idea. Don't care. Perhaps there is a range issue.

1. Why won't Holdo tell Poe, the man who saved them all by destroying the dreadnaught and a highly respected and loved leader, her plan?

Why should she? His last action led to the loss of the Resistance's bomber fleet and most of their fighters, earning him a demotion for recklessness. In which other film does the leader of the fleet have to explain themselves to a recently demoted subordinate? I don't see anyone complaining that Poe kept his plan from Holdo. How is "need to know" acceptable from Poe, but not Holdo?

1. Is it illegal to leave the Resistance (a group of "freedom fighters"), or is Rose acting improperly by turning deserters in?

Judging by the film, desertion is frowned upon, yes.

1. How does Finn pilot the ship to Canto Bight despite not knowing how to pilot a ship?

I would imagine there is a difference between this flight and needing to hijack a TIE and evade the FO canons (oh, which were also unshielded so I guess it's established that gun turrets are not shielded in the GFFA). We can tell from his landing and his actions with the Ski-speeder that he's not the best pilot though.

1. How do Finn and Rose happen to pick the exact right time of night to find the master codebreaker in the casino?

Maz seems to know that the MC is there. He is.

1. Why do the pilots of the Resistance support ships stay behind to die instead of using autopilot or droids?

I would imagine the FO would detect if the ships were being flown by droids and suspect something was up. It's also way more powerful when Holdo sacrifices herself rather than a droid doing it.

1. Why does Finn feel so proud of harming random citizens, tourists, and property in Canto Bight? (those rich people won't suffer anyway; they're rich)

Which poor citizens does Finn pride himself in trashing? That planet is all rich *******s bar the underclass that serve them. They are not portrayed as being harmed by Rose and Finn. In fact, the opposite is true. The poor (represented by the stable hands) cheer on their escape. This is another case of looking really hard to find faults that really aren't there.

1. How does Rey swim to the top of the deep water pit despite it being implied she has no experience ever with water?

Where is it stated that she can't swim? Doesn't look like she's going to win any freesttyle races, but she falls into some water and is able to get herself to the surface and the side without drowning. The film answers the issue you're raising.

1. Why does Rey go from hating Kylo to being invested in his redemption in a matter of minutes?

Several reasons, including the fact that she senses light in him, sees a vision of him fighting side by side with her and defeating Snoke, but perhaps most importantly, she's following Luke Skywalker's example. She knows that Luke was able to turn the most evil man in the galaxy even when everyone else believed there was no light left in him. When Luke refuses to come back to the fight, and given the reasons I laid out above, Rey - wrongly - believes that she can do what Luke did with Vader, and that Kylo can turn the tide. This is all mapped out really clearly in the film and unlike the other complaints so far, isn't a nitpick.

1. If Yoda's Force ghost can manipulate physical-world phenomena, why hasn't he been using this technique to help destroy the dark side?

What would he do exactly? He is helping to destroy win the day by getting Luke back into the game, and it may well be that he and Kenobi were part of reaching out to Rey to bring the saber to Luke and trigger the sequence of events. And befroe you say - that's a theory, it's not explicit in the films - sure, but if you're happy to look for problems that aren't in the films, solutions or theories are surely fair game as well.

1. Why does Snoke remove Rey's handcuffs if he only wants to torture and kill her? Why risk being harmed?

Because he's arrogant as Hell and as you will remember, nothing Rey does is a threat to him. Even she runs at him with a saber, a flick of his finger is enough to hurl her across the chamber.

1. How does Snoke know of the Resistance transports despite talking to nobody since Hux learned of this just seconds before?

Either through the force or he learns offscreen. I'd need to see it again. If not, it's a cheat.

1. Why do Rey and Kylo opt not to use the Force at all when fighting the Praetorian Guards?

No idea but it doesn't bother me for a second that they don't as we get one of the all time fight scenes in the saga.

1. How does Rey perform better than Kylo in the guard fight despite having no training while Kylo trained for years under both Luke Skywalker and Snoke?

We know that Rey is a good fighter. So is Kylo. It's the luck of the way the fight unfolds. Rey is the only one who takes a cut in the fight though.

1. Why does Phasma think decapitation will cause more "hurt" to Finn and Rose than blaster fire?

Again, why does Jabba bother with his drawn out execution plans? Or why isn't Leia executed IMMEDIATELY as per Tarkin's orders. Why does Palpatine shock Luke rather than hurling him down the shaft which would have killed him quicker. Why doesn't Palpatine use his lightsaber?

1. How does Phasma suddenly disappear when the Supremacy is split in two and then walk in from a distance?

It's a cheat for greater dramatic effect. These films are not documentaries.

1. How does Phasma suddenly lose her rifle so she can fight Finn with a pike, but then fires at Rose with a pistol? (that pistol would've been quite useful on Finn)

It's personal against Finn and she wants him beat him hand to hand. This is standard villain trope.

1. How does a shooting turret randomly appear in the destruction area to fire at Rose, and then disappears?

I can't remember this bit at all. I thought the gun was an e-web type thing set up by the troopers which BB8 then destroys but I could be wrong on this.

1. Why is Rey not tempted with the dark side at all despite Star Wars establishing that it is the quick and easy path, and that light side mastery takes long and focused training?

Why does she have to be tempted by the dark side? I think she does consider Kylo's pitch but ultimately rejects it.

1. How do the AT-M6s get on Crait despite the Supremacy and star destroyers being heavily destroyed just before?

The Supremacy is vast and clearly plenty of it is still operational. There is time between the explosion and Kylo giving the orders for the Walkers to make it down to the planet.

1. If the speeders can't shoot, what are they trying to accomplish by speeding towards the walkers and cannon?

Can they not shoot? I can't remember. The plan IIRC, is to slow down the advance and buy the Resistance allies time to respond. They do not.

1. Why do the gorilla walkers stop shooting randomly for a few moments?

Don't remember this bit at all.

1. Why does Poe demand everyone back out and no one sacrifice themselves, despite letting Paige sacrifice herself to take out the dreadnaught earlier?

Because he's learned from that failure and he can see that their sacrifice will achieve nothing other than the loss of more lives. Better that they live to fight another day. In other words, their initial plan is not working and Poe has learned his lesson.

1. Why don't the walkers fire at Finn despite him being the last threat to flying into their cannon?

Perhaps they, like Poe and everyone else know that if Finn flies into the canon it will not damage the canon. As RJ said, it would be like a mosquito flying into a mincer. FInn will be chewed up, the canon will be unharmed and continue to fire regardless.

1. How does Rose get so far ahead of Finn to make a 90 degree turn and crash into him, risking both of their deaths?

Neither of them die and she 100% saves Finn's life from a futile sacrifice that would have achieved nothing.

1. Why doesn't Rose understand that Finn was "saving what he loved" by sacrificing himself? Her sister Paige did the same thing with the dreadnaught.

Because as above, Finn's sacrifice would have killed only himself. The cannon would not have been damaged in the way Finn thought it might. Finn would be dead. The cannon would still fire. He would have achieved nothing. Everyone but Finn realised this (and people who mistakenly think that Finn's plan would have worked and that Rose foiled a perfectly good sacrifice).

1. Why do Rose and Finn share a kiss as the door to the base is blown open in the background, leaving the Resistance wide open to total destruction?

That blast would have fired anyway and destroyed that door. Because of Rose's actions, Finn is now still alive. And ultimately love will prove stronger than hate. It's one of the thematic points of the film, undescored by this visual. If you mistakenly believe that Finn's death would have stopped the cannon from firing, I can see why this is confusing.

1. How does Finn drag Rose all the way back to the base, maybe a km or more away, on a plain white surface with red dirt underneath, without being shot at?

You could ask the same of why no Imperial kills Luke's Skywalker as he's lugging Darth Vader through the DS2. It's a bit of a cheat. It's a bit of cheat how he makes it back so quickly, I agree, but hardly a big issue.

1. Why can't Leia move the large rocks despite being established as a powerful Force user in this movie?

Her force pull in space is an instinctive act that requires far less effort. She's pulling only herself through the vaccum of space vs lifting a massive landslide.

1. Why is Rey the first person to feel Luke dying despite forming no bond with him at all?

What do you mean she has no bond with him? She going to be a Jedi. Despite what some think, he was helping train her. Why would she not be able to sense Luke passing? Especially when his antipathy was less anything to do with her and everything to do with his own self-loathing, which he overcomes annyway by showing up on Crait.

1. How do the stable kids on Canto Bight know of Luke's legendary act on Crait despite no one being able to spread the word to them? (and the Resistance didn't even witness the totality of it)

There is a time jump during which word spreads. The resistance witnessed him facing down the FO army as the kids are re-enacting, and Leia and Rey both know that he is gone. That's before you even factor in the FO troops would be likely to talk as well (even if forbidden). Word spreads.

TONE problems within the same scene: (these scenes have heavily conflicting tones that confuse the viewer and lead to a feeling of emptiness)

• Luke tossing the lightsaber stops an intense and powerful entrance dead cold (sadness vs. humor)

The confusion is deliberate. It's meant to put you in Rey's shoes and make you wonder what the heck is up here. This is Luke Skywalker. Why the Hell is he throwing this saber away after everything we've just been through! I agree that it mihgt not be worth it in this instance and that he should arguably have kept the beat but changed the tone, but the thematic point, and character beat here is that Luke Skywalker is rejecting the symbol of his own legacy and the Jedi knights themselves.

• In Rey and Kylo's 1st Force skype, she is sad about Han while Luke chills grumpily in the background and the alien nuns make funny noises (sadness vs. humor)

Disagree with this one. Having cut himself off from the force, Luke doesn't know they are talking, which is foreshadowing the fact he's cut himself off from the Force. And character-wise Luke still has his armour up - that surliness is his armour against being drawn back in.

• In another Force skype, Rey cries over Han but then must blush at Kylo shirtless (sadness vs. humor/awkwardness)

Yeah, I'd cut that line too, although I'm not sure it's that confusing.

• Finn's intense sacrifice into the cannon is stopped dead cold by Rose (powerful emotion vs. irritating emptiness)

Discussed above. You've misunderstood the point the film is making. Finn was never going to stop the cannon from firing. He would have been dead and changed nothing. Not sure why her saving his life is "irritating emptiness".

• Rose kisses Finn while the door to the base is blown open in the background (total mess of emotions)

Discussed above. You've misunderstood the point the film is making. Love is stronger than hate. Kylo is about to be so blinded by destroying to what he hates that the Resistance is able to escape.

Unfulfilling Realities/Poor Character Behavior:

• Luke's first actions minutes after learning of Han's death are to reject the call to duty and happily chug milk from an alien cow

Of course he rejects the call. He thinks it will make things worse and that his exile and the end of the Jedi are in the best interests of the galaxy. He's wrong, but that's beside the point. What he believes is what matters. Re Luke rejectng the call - you have to remember the story RJ is telling in regards whether the writing serves that purpose. I accept that some don't want RJ to be telling a story about Luke being in the state of mind that he is. But RJ did tell that story, and Luke is in that state of mind. And I think the writing, for the most part, serves that end very well.

• Chewbacca has nothing to do except play with porgs and be an Uber driver, and has only one (unfulfilling) line with Luke

More Chewie is always fun, but I still like what he does in the film. I can't argue with anyone wishing for more though.

• We see Rose mourn Paige (two brand new characters we have no connection to), but not Luke mourn Han

Yes we do. We see the look on his face when he realises Han is not there, we see the weight the news has had on him when we cut back to their chat, and then we see him sneak aboard the Falcon, where he is most definitely affected by his feelings of guilt and loss.

• Luke explains the entire 30-years backstory to his Jedi Academy and Ben Solo in just a few short, weak sentences

We get enough to know what we need. More than anything we got in the OT regarding Anakin and Kenobi for example, and then we get three flashbacks which show us plenty. Do we know everything yet? No. If we need to know more, we'll get in in 9 as the need arises, or in other material.

• The hero Luke has given up on fighting for justice so he can be alone, bask in self pity, and die

Well, the film lays out why he feels that way. Personally I think it works very well, but if you disagree, nothing I can say is going to change that.

• Rey faces no failures or setbacks and can do things Luke and Yoda can with zero training

I would have had her strain more to lift the rocks, but Rey and Luke are different characters, and I don't know what films you were watching if she suffers no failures of setbacks. You could argue Luke is one giant setback that she then compounds by setting off to turn Ben and failing there too.

• Luke intruded on Ben Solo's mind while he slept and nearly murdered him...while he slept

Seems like he had good cause to probe Kylo's thoughts, and the reasons why he ignites his saber are clearly mapped out imo. This is an entire thread on its own though. I would say, it's totally in line with the rest of the saga though. Luke has shown a propensity for thinking death can end the darkness, and Obi-Wan and Yoda both felt the same way about Anakin. What matters most is that Luke did not kill Ben. However, I can see that if someone doesn't like this aspect of the film, nothing else will work as this moment really underpins everything.

• Rey pleads with cave reflection to reveal her parents despite moving beyond this in TFA (retreading old ground)

She wants to see them, not necessarily know who they are. I would argue that knowing belonging lies ahead does not mean you instantly forget your issues in this regard a day or two later. And I think TLJ gives this aspect greater depth - in terms of her wanting to undesratnd her place in all this. She fears she's a no one (which is why her parents dumped her). She is a no one, but that does not need to define her.

• Rey defeats Luke in physical combat and stands above him ready to save the galaxy while Luke lays in the mud

In a one on one fight with both combatants trying to defeat the other, Luke would win hands down. Luke's issues are psychological, nothing to do with physical prowess and it has nothing to do with Rey "beating" him. Again, Luke's issues lie with himself, just as they always have done.

• Luke has learned nothing since the OT and needs Yoda to school him again

He's learned a great deal, unfortunately his flash of consequence and shame leaves him facing a challenge he never has before, and that requires Luke to learn a different lesson.

• The new ST main characters can't stand on their own without having to assassinate the OT ones

This is hyperbole.

• Rey takes the Jedi texts with her despite already mastering everything and needing no help from anyone or anything

This is hyperbole.

• Rey tells Kylo she feels the conflict within him = direct steal from ROTJ

Yes, it's an echo - SW has been full of echoes since 1999. It's also key to Rey's motivation in believing she - like Luke - can turn the most evil man in the galaxy.

• Snoke's spyglass and "watch your friends die" moment = direct steal from ROTJ

Again, echoes have been part of SW since 1999. I agree some of the Snoke stuff is too on the nose though. I personally would have gone with the "young fool, it was I..." Line if you wanted to pick at this bit though.

• Snoke goes from being mysterious and calculated in TFA to being up-front and simplistic and then dies with no backstory

Not sure how he is simplistic in TLJ. And I'd also say he's very calculating. He just makes the incorrect calculation thanks to his hubris.

• The term "rebels" is used randomly and interchangeably with "Resistance" which makes things messy

Well, this is a thematic idea - and one that belies the (false) idea that TLJ is all about trashing everything about the saga to date. But sure, it does stop the Resistance from having its own unique identity. I'm not sure that was ever the point though.

• BB-8 has no deep conversational relevance anymore; he just performs convenient tasks at will

Um. Deep converstational relevance? When did he ever have that? He also perfromed tasks as required, just like every other droid in every other SW film does.

• AT-M6s = easy copies of AT-ATs

What is inconsistent about this? It's an evolution of an old design. The FO aren't about to break the mould now.

• Finn has a nonexistent character arc; goes from first wanting to run and then wanting to stay and fight in TFA to retreading the exact same ground in TLJ

This is incorrect. Finn needs to move beyond self-interest andonly looking after his friends, to learning that a higher cause can be worth fighting for. He also learns that destroying what one hates achieves nothing. If you think Finn hasn't changed, or learns nothing, over the course of the film, you need to watch it again

• Crait tunnel chase = direct steal from Death Star tunnel chase in ANH

Except in a totally different setting and context. I guess the Falcon can no longer be involved in a chase in a constrained environment anymore.

• Rose ruins Finn's sacrifice horribly

This is the third time you've listed this complaint, and it's stil worng. Rose ruins nothing. She saves Finn's life.

• Luke's shoulder brush is out of character for both the OT Luke and TLJ Luke, so now we have 3 different Lukes

Out of character how? Crait Luke is is what Luke would have been like had he not suffered his crisis of faith. Essentially the Luke everyone is moaning about not getting. Seems a stretch to try and wring a fresh complaint out of this one.

And I guess I just want to say that if you have to say "a character is just stupid" to explain a certain behavior or logical issue, that's not really a good defense, and kind of proves the writing is hollow. Also, making up ridiculous assumptions that are not shown in the movie is doing the writer's job for him, proving the writing is not impressive.

You seem prepared to use ridiculous and or incorrect assumptions as for why the film can't work at times as proof the writing is not impressive. And you're also prepared to ignore theme and subtext. So while I can appreciate that you hate the film for the reasons you've listed, I'm not sure they're proof the film is badly written. And there is nothing in here that can't be levelled at any of the previous films if you are trying to find fault with them. I think the only thing TLJ does that the OT doesn't do is look at failure as a key thematic part of the plot. I think the PT does to an extent, but with far worse execution. TLJ does look at what makes a hero in a way that challenges what we might have come to expect from SW, but that in itself in no way equals bad writing.

 

In ANH it's just a "magnetic field" (and referred to as such twice in the film), in all other cases we are dealing with protective, repelling deflector shields.

 

Dodonna also says "The Death Star is heavily shielded."