ST The relationship between Finn and Rey. SEE FIRST POST WARNING

I agree

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This. And in terms of Rey's character, I feel like she specifically should get both. She was established as a girl that will subject herself, by choice, to a life of virtual slavery just on the chance of finding her family that she thinks abandoned her. She wants family. She wants love. How touched she was to learn that Finn came back for her, and that Han just wanted to hire her, demonstrate how much she wants that belonging. She doesn't need it, she can clearly survive just fine on her own, but it would make her happy. I don't see why they should deprive the character of that kind of family after setting her up that way. For this story, I'm not sure it makes sense.

Unless they want her to grow into accepting the jedi's "no attachments" philosophy. Well that sounds depressing to me. That means she would be denying herself something she wants for the greater good. It's different when it's a character like Obi, who just accepts that aspect of the jedi life easily without longing for more.

Yeah, I have followed soap operas at varying times in my life, and I really don't agree that SW is actually a soap opera. Space opera is a phrase to describe the genre, but in actuality it isn't a real soap opera. Soap operas are such specific entities. They get ridiculous almost by necessity, because they have to come up with stories to tell a bit of every day and they last decades. They run out of ideas so they get absurd. If SW was really a soap opera, Rey would have fallen in love with Kylo after he actually raped her, and then when he dumped her she would have gotten with Finn, but then Kylo would change his mind and want her again and she would be torn. And she wouldn't care whether Kylo murders people. SW sprinkles the melodrama on, it doesn't drown us in it.

 

Super close friends or a romantic pairing, plain and simple Rey wants a family and to be loved.

 

I find it difficult to contribute to the FinnRey thread when every few days I have a thought to post here, I just come across posts disparaging Rey and Kylo Ren with the R word thrown around. This does not feel very inviting, even for me who is mostly interested in their force dynamic

Anyways, I liked the warm relationship that Finn and Rey had. I'm glad these two people who grew up in harsh conditions without the happiness of a sound family structure were able to find each other.

Edit: Forgot to add the real reason I came was cause Beardwalker brought up the Finn FS theory. I think there is some scene evidence that may support it. If it's a thing, I don't mind if he got some training from Luke, but I also like the idea of him being a Maverick without the old Force baggage.

 

If you ever find yourself interested in discussing Finn FS theories, there is a thread here http://boards.theforce.net/threads/bets-will-finn-develop-force-powers-become-a-jedi.50035791/

 

Thanks! I'll have a look

 

I wasn't using the R word in reference to anything other than soap operas. Luke and Laura, arguably the most famous soap couple, of General Hospital infamy? Seriously, that's all I was referencing there.

Edit ~ I don't see why people get so touchy about that word in general. Kylo Ren is a mass murderer that commuted patricide. He tortured Rey. I genuinely don't understand why that word is the one we can't use. We're adults here, and frankly, it's no worse than everything Kylo Ren unambiguously did.

 

As much as I dislike Kylo Ren (love Adam driver tho) and totally see the implications of that torture scene, the word itself CAN be triggering for others. I myself try not to use it unless I'm discussing the actual act and it's clear that that is the topic so people don't unwittingly come and see it. Not trying to censor anyone, just providing a possible rationalization for why some people are frustrated when they keep seeing it.

 

Oh okay, I see what you're saying. Thanks

 

JediFinn Thanks, that's exactly what I meant.
AhsokaSolo I apologize if it came across that I was against your soap opera analogy. I've never tried to argue that your opinions were invalid.

 

You are violating their safe space and using naughty words that make them feel queasy so you must be silenced.

 

Er. Just to go totally off centre here.....

What about that cute little scene (almost from a musical) where Finn and Rey circle each other and talk over each other (saying similar complimentary things about each other) just after they escape in the Falcon? Never-mind the whole angry face business.. THAT was a cute and memorable first meeting, if ever I saw one. I honestly expected them to break out in song like Marius and Cosette in Les Mis

And on a second note - the whole issue of detachment in super powered individuals is interesting (and if it belongs in another thread, please point me there) - I imagine that the Jedi code about the whole detachment thing, arose out of several centuries worth of bad things happening to force sensitive people having personal attachments.

I doubt that Luke would've been that well versed in the entire Jedi dogma to the point of embracing the monk ethos in it's entirety (more so, if he is actually as rumoured, Rey's papa) but honestly .. the mess that comes around when Jedi form personal bonds with individuals ... dark or light ... i can see how Luke would caution Rey against getting too close to people to avoid hurting them or being hurt in turn.

 

I don't think they'll bring back the no attachments thing simply because it doesn't work with a character like Rey, who's already been stablished as desperately needing attachments. We already saw in the prequels what happens when you deny love to someone who has been deprived of it all their life.

It would also just be kind of odd. That was a prequels thing. It hasn't really been re-established since. In the EU, Luke's new Jedi academy had no such rule (he had a wife and a son!) and nothing bad happened as a result, so I don't see why that can't happen in the ST.

 

True but the evidence seems to suggest that when Force sensitive people have personal attachments to other people / beings/ whatever (and i have not read the EU, so I will limit myself to the films), things tend to go very, very wrong, especially when you seem to have that midichlorian-heavy Skywalker blood.

Eviidence to point:
- Anakin ==> Padme: Outcome: selfish desire to help save her life leads to him turning to the Darth Dark side of the force and eh.. tears and lost limbs abound
- Luke ==> Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru: BBQ
- Luke ==> Han / Leia: they both get used as bait, tortured and Han gets carbonited.
- Luke ==> Leia: he trains her son ... tears and dead Han result
- Luke ==> His new Jedi students: they are all targeted and he runs away to hide from fear of himself.
- Leia ==> Han: Ben.
- Leia ==> Ben: she believes there is still "light" (goodness) in him - she might eventually be proven right but not according to Han.
- Ben ==> Han and Leia: Dead Han. Leia ... ?
- Ben ==> Darth: Kylo Ren
- Kylo ==> Rey: wup assed Kylo (he should've taken her out, right?)
- Rey ==> Finn: Half dead Finn

Which leads to episode VIII and ...
- Kylo==> Leia: ?
- Kylo ==> Luke?
- Rey==> Finn?
- Luke ==> Rey?
- Luke ==> Leia ?
- Luke==> Ben?

Not sure if it makes sense but essentially, it seems that the galaxy would be a lot more peaceful had the Skywalkers just went off to some island and meditated for a long long long time. Alone.

 

some of those are just classic bad guy targets the ones you care about not really because they are jedi but just because they are the enemy. and this was all back when the order was around and had the no attachments rule. no order right now and unknown what the new order would be like if they make it

your last remark had me rolling haha

 

Eh .. well .. a very Buddhist concept (and apologies to any actual practitioners out there - I am an amateur) seems to be the rejection of personal attachment (and possessions). Given the Eastern philosophy behind the concept of the force and the Jedi knights, it sort of made sense to me that over many years, it just worked out better for everyone concerned if these space wizards didn't get too involved in more human type matters.

Anyway. I just see that Rey's weakness will be Finn in VIII (and maybe Pa Luke) - she is too decent a character to turn off her connection to him, imho.

 

ya with rey's past, she is craving an attachment at this point in time and it would be surprising for me at least if she all the sudden went I am fine with being a bit lonely

 

I don't understand how there can be a Kylo/Rey pairing when TFA goes out of its way to establish him as a murderous, torturing, patricidal maniac who, personally might be a bit confused and conflicted, but his actions and their consequences are not. What message would DIsney send children if he were to be redeemed without a serious consequence (translation: forgiveness upon death) equal to his transgressions?

Do the shippers of Kylo Ren not understand that?

Depicting violence on screen is a device to viscerally connect characters with their actions. The audience is supposed to emote and have that action affect them and their interpretation of said character.

Also, TFA goes out of its way to make it clear that Finn participated in no violence--in fact, the film alternately depicts him trying to help his fellow stormtrooper, which ultimately lead to him breaking his conditioning.

Kylo shipping is not only done in poor taste--to me, it blatantly ignores the movie they purportedly watched very closely.

 

That what happens with head-cannon and confirmation bias.

The only reason why a good deal of them don't want Rey to be of Skywalker lineage is it would kill off their hopes, but they convince themselves it's because the story would then be, "average", "predictable" or even that the TPB would be "stupid" for going in that direction.

A prevalent "theory" is now that she's a Kenobi if only to serve their desire for a pairing with Kylo.

 

Because being a murderous, torturing, patricidal maniac isn't enough of an obstacle to romance... but God forbid they're related.

OMG! Can't cross that boundary. Please, everyone, go out and become a mass killer, it's good to know that so long as you don't marry a relative, it's all good to go find that special someone to make you feel whole.

Ridiculous.

 

Yeah, i tried to bring that subject in the Reylo topic last week, as diplomatically as possible : got very surpirsed how quickly they got pissed.
Yet, it still fits perfectly their ideal for Kylo as a "Byronnic Hero" (strong self-destructive person who doesn't give a damn about social conventions, inspired by Lord Byron, himself pretty well-known for having an incestual relationnship...).

Still, it's not like i can't understand the appeal for a love story between ennemies, but Kylo is way too far gone for that. More importantly, this kind of story becomes a lot less appealing once you introduced a character like Finn. Why introduce such a nice & brave guy, just to make him look dumb in the end, while the "redeemed" bad guy get the girl ?

 

This phenomenon also speaks to how desensitized to violence we have become. What other atrocities must Kylo commit for him to given the proper villain treatment by these particular viewers. Also, their shipping desires would blunt his development as a character. He is the monster of the story (he can reflect and refract certain moral ambiguities in society and culture) but he is the monster nonetheless; Rey, literally says: "You are a monster!"

There might be a good, helpful story to be told using this gothic, provocative structure... but SW ain't it.

 

It's kind of fascinating to me how this point gets brushed aside so easily. It's one area where the logic of Reylo really goes over my head. People really think hints to romantic Reylo were intentionally placed. Okay but imagine being a writer setting out to establish the foundation for later romance between current adversaries. Do you really write the antagonist to choose the most evil conduct every time? Do you really write the protagonist witnessing him choosing to murder his innocent, defenseless father? Do you really have the antagonist strap the protagonist to a torture chair and then actually torture her? Come on. It's more likely you write the protagonist witnessing the antogonist trying not to kill Han, and then witnessing something like an accident or circumstances beyond the antagonist's control. It's also more likely you wouldn't have one torture the other and steal private thoughts, but you'd have them interact in a way that is in neutral settings, where they're reluctantly able to find some strange common ground willingly, despite the circumstances.

And in the meantime, you certainly wouldn't put a great guy right smack in the middle that the protagonist fights for, and that fights for the protagonist. For all the non-shipping average movie goers, they're not thinking they're supposed to be rooting for romance not with the great guy that Rey was beside herself over him coming back for her, but with the guy that strapped her to a table. That's just not how you tell that particular story. Rey deserves to be adored by a man with strength of character. That man is Finn. Kylo Ren has zero traits that Rey deserves to be saddled with.

 

TFA places Rey in situations to witness Kylo as a monster and nothing else; whereas, with Finn--it would seem, at every turn they depict her experiencing him as selfless and completely devoted to her safety.