The Religious Left, Dean & the DNC, and our Republic.

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Eschatos, Feb 13, 2005.

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  1. Eschatos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2005
    star 1
    Given that Dean seems bent on organizing the opposition party from the local level on up, it occured to me to pose a few questions to you guys.

    1) The "religious left" has been in the background for a while now. Do you guys think that Dean can reinvigorate and organize liberal faith groups like the SCLC, Society of Friends, and others as the conservatives have organized other faith organizations?

    2)If he tries to do this, do you think that the figures of the religious left in the Democratic Party (Sharpton, Jackson, others)will be willing to coordinate with him and share the stage?
  2. Lozza Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2005
    star 4
    Since I'm not from the US I have very little understanding about the political climate but that name is familiar, was he that liberal doctor who was in the primary race last year?
  3. Eschatos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2005
    star 1
    Yes, he's, "The Screamer". He was also recently selected to run the Democratic National Committee.
  4. Vaderbait Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 6
    Unfortunately, I don't think he's a "screamer" anymore, and he may be pretty successful in his efforts down south. Republicans need to combat him, but I'm afraid we'll end up just sitting on our haunches while he takes our base out from under us.

    There's no way in hell Dean can sway religious voters to the Democrats, but he and other Democrats have done well enough being a defamer and slanderer that he could be successful on the grass-roots level making people think every Republican is a gay-bashing dictator.
  5. Obi-Wan McCartney Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    Yes, we need to bring out our own religous people to combat the forces of the right-wing religous people.

    We want Christians who are about kindness and sharing, about helping their fellow man, not just preaching to him why he is going to hell.
  6. Vezner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2001
    star 5
    We want Christians who are about kindness and sharing, about helping their fellow man, not just preaching to him why he is going to hell.

    Most general and blatantly labeling statement I have seen in a long time. Congradulations. [face_plain]
  7. Obi-Wan McCartney Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    Um, technically I didn't label anyone.

    Think about it. I'll even help. If I said I was looking for a hardworking engineer to join my party, would I be labeling engineer's as hardworking? I don't think so.

    But I'll accept your award, even if I didn't actually label anyone.
  8. Crix-Madine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2000
    star 4
    We want Christians who are about kindness and sharing, about helping their fellow man, not just preaching to him why he is going to hell.

    Thank you OWM =D= well said.
  9. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Most general and blatantly labeling statement I have seen in a long time. Congradulations

    Different people have different viewpoints within Christianity (which might be the understatement of the year), and have likewise different priorities. Some are more progressive, others are more conservative, while another contrast may be between evangelization and helping the poor.
  10. DarthKarde Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 5
    I have already stated that I think Dean will do a very good job for the democrats. Unlike many of his colleagues he understands that the strength of political movements lie primarily in their grass roots. Encouraging liberal faith groups is an obvious but vital move and if it upsets Jackson and Sharpton that is a bonus. Both of them are part of the problem not part of the solution.

    making people think every Republican is a gay-bashing dictator.

    Yeah sure, because that kind of campaigning is only used by one side [face_plain]
  11. Neo-Paladin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2004
    star 4
    I like Dean for no other reason than what he said at the DN convention, when he said, "We will never again be ashamed to call ourselves liberal."

    Right on! [face_flag]
  12. Eschatos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2005
    star 1
    DK, if you aren't a big fan of Jackson's I recommend reading A Time on Two Crosses, which is a collection of Bayard Rustin's writings. He was the main organizer of the March on Washington and had some very, very scathing views of Jackson. BTW, that's not even including Rustin's later reactions to Jackson bringing Farrakhan into the public consciousness.
  13. Moriarte Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2001
    star 5
    Yes, we need to bring out our own religous people to combat the forces of the right-wing religous people.

    By "our" you mean the left-wing.

    We want Christians who are about kindness and sharing, about helping their fellow man, not just preaching to him why he is going to hell.

    Your implication that the religions right-wing are only concerned with fire-and-brimstone and not the religious left-wing who are, in your view, for kindness and sharing is very obvious.

    It's pathetic that you would try to deny this and the idea that the religios left is actually for the better tenents of faith speaks volumes about your own liberal stereotyping.

    Remember all the attacks and criticism that the religious right gets from the left for simply being religious and conservative? Should Dean bring out the religious left, I wonder if anyone, namely liberals, are going to complain that their faith is enforcing beliefs onto others and try to curtail it or, like OWM would have us believe, attempt to exemplify them as examples of the better tenents of faith, and thusly allowable.

    The hypocracy is incredible.


    Ciou-See the Sig
  14. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Instead of attempting to portray one as being better than the other, how about looking at the positive aspects of each particular group?

    The hypocracy is incredible.

    Yes it is, but it comes from both sides. You mentioned the criticism the religious right gets, but you have to remember that not all Christians (not to mention people of other faiths) buy into what the religious right espouses, and sometimes resents all the talk of "morality" and family values as being the domain of right-wing Christians.
  15. Eschatos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2005
    star 1
    Moriarte, with all due respect, I think that whenever a group that's helmed by figures such as Falwell, Lahaye, and Swaggert positions itself to be an authority of a faith that espouses unconditional love, it invites that kind of characterization.
  16. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    We want Christians who are about kindness and sharing, about helping their fellow man, not just preaching to him why he is going to hell.

    Amen. They're there, we just need to bring them out.
  17. J-Rod Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 5
    I'm one! And if you don't believe me you'll probably go to Hell! ;)
  18. Moriarte Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2001
    star 5
    Instead of attempting to portray one as being better than the other, how about looking at the positive aspects of each particular group?

    Was this towards myself? I'm not sure what this means.

    Yes it is, but it comes from both sides. You mentioned the criticism the religious right gets, but you have to remember that not all Christians (not to mention people of other faiths) buy into what the religious right espouses, and sometimes resents all the talk of "morality" and family values as being the domain of right-wing Christians.

    When have the religious left been labeled hypocrates in what they espouse, KW? Have they receieved any criticism or stereotyping that the religious right have received?
    What I am addressing is the stereotype that the religious right are what OWM characterizes them to be and that the religious left is, somehow, better.


    Moriarte, with all due respect, I think that whenever a group that's helmed by figures such as Falwell, Lahaye, and Swaggert positions itself to be an authority of a faith that espouses unconditional love, it invites that kind of characterization.

    With all due respect, is the religious right truly helmed by these people, or do the people named only claim to be so, or do the religious right's opponents characterize it as you say?


    Ciou-See the Sig
  19. Neo-Paladin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2004
    star 4
    Falwell, Lahaye, and Swaggert may only claim to lead the religious right, as you say, but when ever media seeks to represent the religious right, these and their ilk are who the media goes to.

    It is not unreasonable to call them the head of the religious right movement.
  20. Eschatos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2005
    star 1
    Well, that seems to invite the following question: "What do you identify as the religious right?" From my perspective, the faith groups that propelled Bush into office characterize what is called the, "religious right". It so happens that a great number of those organizations either are run by the aforementioned persons, endorse their views, or buy their books. All in all, I think that it's a fair assessment. Plus, you can't forget James Dobson, who is clearly a leader of the religous conservatives, the guy who's obsessed with cartoon character's sexual identities. (The last remark is a prod at Dobson, not you. If you happen to endorse his views, I wasn't trying to antagonize you.)
  21. Emperor_Joe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 4
    I don't really think the Democrats can mobileize a group they don't really control. The far left will never stand for religion-inclined taking over the party and will fight them every step of the way. It is a hamperment to the goal of the Democrats to build a Socialist America.
  22. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    A "socialist America"?

    What nonsense.

    Now who's making generalizations?

    The democrats have a more inclusive view over what role government should play in the economy and social welfare than the republicans, as well as a different vision for the country.

    Nowhere is their platform "socialist", and that kind of talk simply demonstrates a close-minded bias.

    Peace,

    V-03
  23. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    The democrats are far from socialist. Thats a bit much isnt it considering the way the politicaltructure is set up that both political parties are int he back pockets of special intrest groups.
  24. Obi-Wan McCartney Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    Moriarte, Vez, you guys need to chill out, and remember this is a thread designed to discuss democratic issues.

    Both of you failed to read what I actually said, and just assumed I was conservative bashing, and then decided to counter with liberal bashing of your own.

    Your implication that the religions right-wing are only concerned with fire-and-brimstone and not the religious left-wing who are, in your view, for kindness and sharing is very obvious.

    -Yes, that is the implication. People who claim to be about religion in the conservative fold seem more concerned with themselves and imposing standards of morality, and dictating social norms, rather than actually helping to clothe the poor and feed the hungry. Liberals are all about clothing the poor and feeding the hungry, and I know that most religions including Christianity preach such good works. Therefore, the liberal democrats would do well to find charitable community service oriented Christians whose ideas of morality center more around helping their fellow man than condemning him for his lifestyle or social views, (abortion, birth control, gays, etc.)

    It's pathetic that you would try to deny this and the idea that the religios left is actually for the better tenents of faith speaks volumes about your own liberal stereotyping.

    -I'm not sure that this is a coherent sentence.

    Remember all the attacks and criticism that the religious right gets from the left for simply being religious and conservative? Should Dean bring out the religious left, I wonder if anyone, namely liberals, are going to complain that their faith is enforcing beliefs onto others and try to curtail it or, like OWM would have us believe, attempt to exemplify them as examples of the better tenents of faith, and thusly allowable.

    -No, the attacks and criticism came from their POLICIES. It is you on the right who HIDE yourselves behind the bible. You use religion to justify any number of your wretched social policies, and IMHO, the conservative right is cheapening and bastardizing religion by politicizing it so much. We seek Christians who seek to promote the better tennets of the faith, because helping your fellow man is something we have in common.

    The hypocracy is incredible.

    -On your part perhaps.
  25. Crix-Madine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2000
    star 4
    I don't really think the Democrats can mobileize a group they don't really control. The far left will never stand for religion-inclined taking over the party and will fight them every step of the way. It is a hamperment to the goal of the Democrats to build a Socialist America.

    Are you ******* kidding me?

    Dude, go to school or get out of whatever hole you live in.
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