The Religious Left, Dean & the DNC, and our Republic.

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Eschatos, Feb 13, 2005.

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  1. J-Rod Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 5
    Dean's remarks weren't out of line. It's just that no one until now in the Democratic party has had the balls to say it. And we all know it's the truth.

    Yeah, that's good stuff.

    I have a theory: Carl Rove is paying Howard Dean to say this stuff.

    I also believe that the Dem party will implode and leave a full fledge socialist party in it's wake.

    The great thing is guys like Dean seem to believe that they represent the majority of the public opinion. Like I said, good stuff.

    '06 is gonna be great!
  2. Obi-Wan McCartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    Laugh now, cry in '08 when Madame President is sworn in.
  3. J-Rod Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 5
    Nahhhh...I'm OK with Condi. ;)
  4. 4ceful1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    I agree with Fleischmann (mid-article, above) that Dean is the best thing to happen to the GOP in a long time. Let him spout off as much nonsense as he wants. You notice that his words were simply childish jibes, without any attempt to prove his baseless, mindless prattling? Since he?s the DNC Chairman, his words are automatically quotable facts...at least in his mind (and the media's mind.) It?s typical behavior from the extreme Left. They can hurl random statistics at you all day long, but challenge them to prove their statements and they start with the name calling.

    Bravo, J-Rod: you?re onto something. I think the Liberals will implode soon, too. The Left has lost its focus. Dean and the far-left, out-of-touch media (you know that?s true) are making the Democratic party lose its appeal. They?re going to have a hard time courting religion, considering their history of freely bashing religion at any opportunity. In fact, bashing Catholics, men, conservatives, and America is all fair game for Liberals. It must be nice to be able to spout off about any of those topics at any time without fear of retribution from their media lackeys. Well, that?s one of the reasons why they?re losing steam in this country, and evidently they can?t see it coming.

    4ceful1

  5. Darth Mischievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    shelley, your commentary is more reflective of the opinion of the far-left of the Party than the mainstream. Joe Biden is certainly not a Republican in Democrats' clothing, nor are the Democrats in general 'Republican-lite'. Biden holds his own values reflective of his party, and he has participated in the filibusters against judicial appointments and so on. Biden is a reasonable moderate.

    Most reasonable individuals - both Democrats and Republicans - can recognize poor taste when they see it: example V03. I would certainly call out the GOP chair if he made ridiculous commentary.

    Howard Dean is not good for the party. He's not altogether stable, and his fundraising efforts for the party have been poor as of late. The GOP is more than doubling the money in the contributions race: look it up. He even vocalized support for an avowed socialist in Vermont who is running for Congress there.

    If the Democrats keep lurching to the far left, then they will continue to lose election after election. How many Democrats have been President in the last 30 years?

    Oh yea, that's right: 2.

    Did you ever wonder why Hillary is trying to run to the center to camouflage her authentic opinions?
  6. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    You have been warned multiple times before about this. If you can't discuss the issue at hand without being venomous, don't post at all.

    I honestly hope you just post here without actually believing what you post, kind of in a "devil's advocate" sense. I don't know you, but sometimes I'm concerned for you. It's not healthy for someone to hold so much animosity and hatred within them

    Over time, that internal poison is going to start to manifest itself in physical ways, such as ulcers.

    Beyond politics, sometimes just talking helps to difuse this hatred.


  7. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    Now I think Dean is an idiot for saying what he has said over the last few weeks (if only for the obvious political ramifications), but it turns out he was fairly accurate (scroll down a little bit; there link doesn't seem to be working right) in his assessment of the Republican party as that of white Christians:

    So What Percentage of America are White Christians?--

    The latest Howard Dean flap is over his claim that Republicans are "pretty much a white, Christian party."

    Since about 63% of the adult public in the US are white Christians, it would not be surprising if at least the majority in any party were white Christians. Here is the breakdown of white Christians in the 2004 General Social Survey by party adherence:

    41% Strong Democrats (eg, 41% of Strong Democrats are white Christians).
    52% Other Democrats.
    52% Independents, Leaning Dem.
    57% Independents.
    78% Independents, Leaning Repub.
    78% Other Republicans.
    89% Strong Republicans.
    57% Other Party.

    So about 84% of Republicans are white Christians, compared to about 47% of Democrats. Neither party is a good cross-section of the American public.

  8. Darth Mischievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    By the way, Ken Mehlman - the RNC Chairman - is Jewish.

    I will submit that the secular in the American politic is drifting towards the Democratic Party rather than the GOP, but it's still a broad overgeneralization.

    As much as the GOP thinks Dean is good for their party, I don't think individuals like Howard Dean are good for either party.

    Individuals like him simply reflect the lowest common denominator in American politics, IMHO.
  9. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Which is what the GOP's been pandering to.
  10. severian28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2004
    star 5
    " I don't think individuals like Howard Dean are good for either party. "

    He's a tremendous fund raiser and thats the main reason that the DNC placed him in charge. Your right in saying that he's too ideological but having him head the DNC will not hurt the Dems. Believe me, the GOP would be much happier if Dean was running for President again against running the DNC.
  11. J-Rod Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 5
    He's a tremendous fund raiser

    LOL...The reps are raising 3 times the money than the Dems.
  12. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Proof? You know, anyone can make that claim with no proof.
  13. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    J-Rod's right FID. At least about the fundraising.

    Though I'll leave it to him to prove it.

  14. J-Rod Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 5
    See, FID, this isn't so hard.

    The link is long enough that it probably isn't gonna work, But it says that he raised less than half the money the RNC has.
  15. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
  16. J-Rod Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 5
    Thanks FID. Sometimes you da man!
  17. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Only trying to save myself the misfortune of copy and pasting. I assure you.
  18. J-Rod Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 5
    Here's even more proof of Dean's failure.

    According to a new report in Business Week magazine, the DNC raised $14.1 million dollars in the first quarter of this year, while the RNC raised $32.3 million. What's more, the report says, Dean and his Democratic colleagues have attracted about 20,000 new donors to the DNC, while Republicans have lured more than 68,000 new donors.

    Man I hope they keep this loser!

  19. DeathStar1977 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2003
    star 4
    If the Democrats keep lurching to the far left, then they will continue to lose election after election. How many Democrats have been President in the last 30 years?

    Oh yea, that's right: 2.


    How many Republicans have been elected President in the last 30 years?

    3 (Reagan, Bush1, Bush2). Not much more than 2. ;)

    What Dean said was poorly phrased, but it is making a mountain out of a molehill. Far worse (and similarly inappropriate yet nothing to get all hot and bothered about) statements have been made in politics.


  20. Darth Mischievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    It simply is the connotation (towards the negative) that the statement was made.

    DS77: Don't you think that the Dems should try to improve relations with faith-based individuals rather than being lurched to the secularistic left by stuff like this?

    It's simple hate speech.

    Imagine if a Republican said that about African-Americans and the Democratic Party...

    Imagine that.
  21. DeathStar1977 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2003
    star 4
    Speaking of negative connotations, I have no problem with the 'secularist left'.

    Again, Dean's original statement was inappropriate, one of the reasons why I didn't support him in the primaries was that he sometimes doesn't think before he speaks. But I do agree with his general point, only I would've phrased it how Republican  John C. Danforth, a Episcopal minister and former Senator did:

    http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/033005H.shtml

    Imagine if a Republican said that about African-Americans and the Democratic Party...

    I don't have to. JC Watts referred to black Democrats as 'race hustling, poverty pimps'.

    Yes, the way Dean said it was inappropriate. Big deal. Most people are accepting of faith-based individuals. What many, myself included, do NOT like is theocrats like Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell using religion to divide us, to constantly play the victim when they are criticized, or to turn our great country into a theocracy.

    Its just another example of the right-wing echo chamber blowing a quote out of proportion. I doubt they were similarly upset when...

    Rick Santorum said on the Senate Floor that Democratic filibusters of Bush's judicial nominees were "the equivalent of Adolf Hitler in 1942 saying: I'm in Paris, how dare you invade me, how dare you bomb my city. It's mine."

    Or when Bill Frist claimed Democrats wanted to "kill, to defeat, to assassinate these nominees."

    Or when Tom Delay said "You know, the Democrats want to balance the budget by raising spending and raising taxes. The Soviet Union had a balanced budget."

    Republicans saying stupid things certainly doesn't excuse or negate when Democrats say stupid things. But this whole false outrage over every little thing is just ridiculous.



  22. J-Rod Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 5
    I dunno DS77, that's kinda different than saying, "I hate all Democrates."

    BTW: Good to see you again.

    California conservative. ;)
  23. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Why does everyone talk about the democrats turning into a socialist party like it's a BAD thing?

    Democratic socialism would certainly be better than what we've got now.
  24. J-Rod Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 5
    Democratic socialism would certainly be better than what we've got now.

    Look at France's economy and come back here and say that again.
  25. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Money?


    Your argument is MONEY?


    I hate money. That's why I prefer socialism to capitalism.
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