ST The "Revelation" Of Episode VIII?

I'm not frustrated, but sickened. A slight but important difference.

Plagueis has long been thought of by his supporters to be a good narrative choice when the truth is absolutely the opposite. The limited logic deployed usually only focuses on the structural upshot of tying the trilogies together -- completely ignoring that Kylo's reverence for Vader already does this much better and more dramatically. And sometimes people think like you, for some unstated reason, that only the Emperor's master can be more powerful than him. Why? And if that were true, then how could Palpatine so easily kill him in his sleep? That has got to be one of the most humiliating ways for a villain, or anyone, to be killed.

For whatever upshot one can imagine, overall Plagueis is much more destructive for the Saga. Him surviving Palpatine's attack only makes Palpatine look incompetent, and his survival logically contradicts what we know about him: that he could save others but not himself. There is never any power of resurrection imputed to him. He has the power of longevity, not immortality, an important distinction lost on most Plagueis fans. Oh yes, and Plagueis surviving also reduces Anakin's victory of destroying the Sith.

And then of course there are the Plagueis supporters themselves who are hard to respect or have an enjoyable conversation with usually because they are willfully deaf to anything that contradicts their theory.

 

I agree. The villain of the 3rd trilogy needs to be more powerful than all those who came before. There needs to be an evolution of power, not a cycle. If Palpy could kill Plagueis so easily in his sleep, than the drama and danger of making Snoke-Plagueis the final villain is weakened. We - the audience - already know how he can be defeated. We know he was stopped once, and thus the heroes could do it again. It doesn't matter if there's some secret sauce - ohhh Plagueis figured out how to cheat death, etc. etc. It still reads as Plagueis was weaker than Palpy, and Palpy, in the end, was weaker than Vader.

I think the audience, as well as for Kylo and the heroes, we need to respect a greater danger. Right now Kylo respects Vader. In order for Snoke to train Kylo, he really needs to be more powerful than anyone we've seen thus far.

And remember, Plagueis wanted to cheat death. That was a power that Anakin desired. It was a part of his seduction. So Plagues was told to Anakin because they shared a desire for the same over. That same power, isn't something that Kylo seems all that interested in. So what...does Snoke tell Kylo...I'm actually Plagues and I figured out how to cheat death. Kylo's desire for power hasn't rested on that skill. So there's really no connection there for that character. It has to be something else. Grander. Kylo seeks to be better than all those around him. He seeks a heritage that belongs to him and was ignored.

It could be interesting if Snoke - when revealing who he really is to Kylo/Rey/the Audience - mockingly describes those who have come before him.

Snoke:
Oh, the Sith you say? [He mockingly laughs, which then continues into a dry cough] Limited by their dogma. Plagues the "Wisssseeee". Sideous the Seducer. Even Vader. Weak. All were blind to the truth though. They all received their power through meeeeee. I have been here before the Jedi learned of the Force. I have been here before those who broke away towards the darkness. I've been here all along. I am the dark side.

 

Yeah, that's a great post. The only part I disagree with slightly is that Snoke would be good if he were more dangerous somehow, not necessarily more powerful. His beliefs and ideology might make him more dangerous and he doesn't really need some extra powerful Force power, although he might have that as well. But it's his belief system ultimately that should distinguish him from the Sith. If he's just older or more powerful and that's it, I'd be bored. That's a kind of video game logic. Even Marvel and DC usually give internal reasons for why villains are more external powerful.

I'm glad you agree that Plagueis carries too many problems with him, and that it would be best to have Snoke be someone we aren't familiar with.

 

I've always liked the idea of an extragalactic Force cult who view the Jedi and Sith as heretics and because the Jedi and Sith have influenced the galaxy for thousands of years, the taint of their false teachings can't be undone, so this Force cult decides to rid the galaxy of the Force by destroying all life, launching a vicious crusade to annihilate everything. That was the kind of story I was hoping for in the sequels instead of recycling old stories.

Of course, I and many fans are guilty of imagining what the sequels could be and when they turn out to be something else, it's easy to feel disappointed or feel as if the filmmakers don't "get" Star Wars or understand where it should go, which is silly because the filmmakers are just making the movies they want to see and hoping others want to see them too. But I would like to see something new. One idea I've thought about lately is that Rey's parents were agents of Snoke's and that Rey was supposed to be Snoke's apprentice but her parents hid her away, so Snoke went after the Skywalker offspring instead, though he still wants Rey.

There are a number of twists and turns that could be forthcoming in the next two films. I just hope they're interesting and logical.

 

I'm expecting that the big reveal at the end of VIII is going to be...yes...the return of Han Solo! It will turn out that Rey is in fact the daughter of Han and Leia, and that when she was very little there was a disturbance in the Force, and Luke tells Han and Leia that they must split Kylo and Rey up, as Luke and Leia were themselves split up For their own safety. They are the grandchildren of Anakin Skywalker and the future of the Empire lays upon seducing one of them to the Dark Side. So Rey, like Luke, is banished to a distant planet to grow up unaware of her lineage. Kylo is the one seduced to the Dark Side and he destroys Luke's Jedi training camp. Luke, as Obi Wan did for him has gone into hiding waiting for Rey to grow up. With Kylo seduced, she is the last hope of the Jedi. Han Solo inadvertently discovers her in VII and needs her to go off by herself to see and be trained by Luke. If he goes with her, the evil forces will follow. So he fakes his own death, such that Kylo and the Dark Forces think he is dead, Kylo has proved his Darkness, and they don't know about Rey. This also explains the Big Hug in VII between Leia and Rey as Leia knows they are mother and daughter. This also expains why Han reckelessly goes out on to the catwalk before his 'death scene' He was setting up his 'fake death' to protect his children. The Big Reveal at the end of VIII then is in the climactic scene, the return of Han to save Rey and Luke from the invading dark forces. "Why would you fake your own death?" a shocked Rey asks, "because I couldn't come with you and I had to protect Kylo...its what fathers do for their children...yes, I'm your father, he's your brother...and now we have to go save him!" THE END

 

Plus which, with a stand alone Han Solo movie coming, even as a flashback, they can't have the Han Solo character having died so abruptly in VII. It will make people sad seeing the flashback movie. So before that movie comes out, they have to have Han make his comeback and be back alive at the end of VIII. It only makes sense

 

Wait, seriously? Wouldn't the opportunity to see Han Solo alive again in his flashback movie be something to draw people to it, not something that makes them "too sad" to see it? Either way, Han's not coming back in VIII.

 

they can always change their mind, I mean in Star Trek II they had to agree to let Spock die in order to get Leonard Nimoy to do the film, and then afterwards they got him to change his mind by letting him direct ST III. Maybe they talk Ford into coming back if Carrie Fisher can't do episode IX for health reasons. Nothing is ever set in stone

 

Yeah, Han faked that lightsaber through his abdomen. Let's ruin the best scene in TFA just because.

And: italics!

 

Han faked that lightsaber through his abdomen because double agent Kylo was in on it. It wasn't a real lightsaber strike. Kylo had to make his bones and Rey had to be protected. Besides they needed a dramatic scene at the end of VII You will notice that they did not recover his body at the end of VII and there was no funeral

 

And he almost killed Finn to sell the deception? Or was Finn in on this too?

 

I'm not claiming Han is not dead as a spoiler, but just as speculation. this is a speculation item right? they are doing a Han movie, wouldn't a big return at the end of VIII set that up perfectly. so we can go explore Han's past in the new movie as a way of understanding his future, he has to have a future right?

 

...What?

Does knowing what happens to a character much later, chronologically, often spoil your viewing like this? Do you walk out of Nativity plays in tears because the kid in the manger is going to wind up nailed to a cross in 33 years?

 

I feel depressed watching a movie about a character who already died onscreen.

 

The audience is supposed to feel sad when beloved characters have passed. However, if anyone is feeling depressed -- clinically depressed -- then they should consider visiting a therapist.

 

...or watch Caravan of Courage: An Ewok Adventure to lift their spirits.

 

Han was like a 70 year old non-FS human man (so even the "well he's an alien so maybe it works differently" explanation is out) who got impaled through the chest by a lightsaber, fell off a bridge into a chasm, and then like ten minutes later the planet that he was on exploded and turned into a sun.

He's dead, like totally dead. In fact it's like they went out of their way to make it crystal clear that he was dead by having him sustain THREE fatal blows in quick succession. If the saber didn't kill him, then the fall would have. And if he somehow survived that as well, he'd have been incinerated when the planet exploded.

 

Even if it wasnt planned, now that Carrie Fisher has passed, I think they will re-write Episode IX to bring Ford back as Han Solo and give him her scenes. It is too much to have two of the original three star characters dead and I dont believe fans would stand for Leia being regenerated digitally like in Rogue One. The options are to get Harrison Ford to come back or give Mark Hamill too many scenes in IX with Luke suddenly without his two best friends. Ford must do IX in Fishers honor!

 

No they won't. It's much more likely that they'd just find a way to write Leia out of IX. Because you're just swapping one tragedy out for another if you do it the other way.

 

Although IMO she remains part of the plot, in a smaller role in Ep 8, for all we know Leia might have been already written out of the story.

 

I mean...Han didn't just get stabbed with a lightsaber. He fell to the core of SKB and then SKB blew up. His body is microscopic particles at this point. Barring a flashback scene, he's gone.