The rise of the occult, discussing paganism and its many branches.

Occult and paganism go hand in hand, to some decree

paganism is an acual religion and has many branches, shamanism, wicca, voodoo and such

but the occult does mean hidden and included forms of divination, astral projection, aromatherapy, mediation and visualisation. as a wiccan i have oracticed all of these things, most of the are very oldd like runes or crystal scrying.

can we please cease the battle between christians and pagans. i know i have contributed and i'm going to desists and i ask others to.

i would rather talk about practices and rituals, like Mabon which i just celebrated, than fight for my beliefs. that is why i created this thread, a safe haven for conversation, not a battleground.

 

Hey Dani, no problem

 

Samhain is soon, it's my first one and i'm looking forward to it

 

Samhain? Ah, you've got the whole of summer including the Solstice to come first - lots of merry making, good food and blessed tidings. The Midsummer has always been special to me.

Samhain is also a great celebration and our coven always include a ritual for our ancestors, but it's become so caught up in trick or treat that it's lost its spark in my eyes.

I celebrated Lady's Day in peace and solitude this year. The weather was terrible and it was hard to believe that this was the start of a whole new cycle of life and renewal. It's never been my favourite sabbat for that very reason.

 

in the southern hemisphere samhain is in may, i'm in australia

but the midsummer fesitivals are nice, can we have a party here or something? it would be great if we could have our own little community

 

Of course re Samhain. It's so easy to think of Samhain as just being Halloween, i.e. in October. A bad habit to get into.

Looks like this thread has the potential to turn into a chat thread between you and myself. Perhaps PM me

 

yeah, i kicked everyone else out.

 

let's talk a bit more, people still think that my way is wrong that i'm immoral

but i read somewhere whenever people talk about morals they do so in the christian sense

 

Education is the key. People who class pagans as immoral rarely have any knowledge of paganism outside of the stereotypical image given by the churches, media, etc. One film that does reflect Wicca in it's true sense is actually the Wizard of Oz. Admittedly, the imagery is the old broomstick stuff, but there's a good witch, a bad witch and a pretender all in the same movie. Bad witches get back what they give out (with interest added) - hence one gets flattened by a house, and one gets melted (totally gross!). The pretender get's discovered, partly due to all the huff and puff. The good witch carries on as normal being nice as usual.

Some aspects of paganism seem alien to some people and hence they fear it and won't even examine the concepts involved. Unfortunately, sometimes they do the most yelling. However, this hasn't occurred in this thread.

Have you read any Alistair Crowley? His books, whilst of value to the established pagan, cloud the issue even further for the casual investigator due to his rather excentric method of writing. Guess some of the bookcovers don't exactly help either!

 

i've read of him, is he the guy who calls himself the beast 666?

he did do some pretty inhumane things in his later life though

what i like about my beliefs is that they are open minded and accepting of others, most christians i know aren;t like that. they believe they are right and anyone who doesn't follow their beleifs can go to hell.

that's why i broke with christianity, and the fact the catholic church really needs to "set their house in order"

 

Ah, so pagans are tolerant of every religion...EXCEPT Christianity. Makes sense now.

 

the only thing i have against christians is that they are intolerant, i don't like people who are intolerant and it doesn't matter if they are a Jew, a Christian, a Pagan or a Satanist

 

The rise of the occult and paganism is of no surprize to those who know the bible. See

-2 Corinthians 4:4
-1 John 5:19
-Revelation 12:9

And remember what happened to the pagans of old.

"wipe them out, all of them" God to the Isrealites

See Joshua 10: 38 & 39.

Before Jesus came to the earth God was not a pacifist.

Then came the time when true christians were to be neutral, if they weren't they were false christians and brought huge reproch upon God.

See 1 John 3:10 & 11

The sad fact is that unbelievers who refuse to believe IN THE FUTURE after clear signs are given that God is taking his planet back won't be allowed to stay on his planet, he can evict anybody he wants he is the ultimate landlord. And I am not talking about hell either, just a termination of existance.

 

Yeah, because we all know that your god is nothing but a "loveing, caring, tolerant" Lord.

Spare me. Its so nice to have the pagan threads hijacked by christians telling us we're going to "burn in hell" or be "blinked out of existance". And you know what, if he does come back, I'd rather be snuffed out than forced to worship a diety and constantly live with the fear of punishment at every thought I have.

EDIT:
I've been starting to do some reading up on Wicca, but does anyone know some good books in it's history? The book I've got only talks about the practices for witches.

 

Yeah, because we all know that your god is nothing but a "loveing, caring, tolerant" Lord.

i think it might be more productive not to feed the trolls. maybe if we ignore them, they'll go away.

that said, isn't there a rule against trolling in the JC? perhaps someone should notify a mod about Blue_Jedi33's trolling?

 

Sorry, dizfactor. I keep forgetting to put that feed bag back in the barn.

Anyway... I'm still looking for good reading matieral.

 

the only thing i have against christians is that they are intolerant, i don't like people who are intolerant and it doesn't matter if they are a Jew, a Christian, a Pagan or a Satanist

Whether you realize it or not, you are intolerant of Christianity itself. Do you think Christians are intolerant for the heck of it? It's part of the belief system. Now understand it isn't intolerance in general that Jesus promoted... Just intolerance of sin (as the Bible defines it). We're to love everyone REGARDLESS of what they do. As human beings this is something that's hard to do all the time. Just as you hate our intolerance and are prone to confronting it, we feel the same way about sin, and so it often comes across as us hating sinners (which, ironically, would include ourselves ). And, sometimes we do go too far and slip into being a little less loving towards those who believe differently.

In any event, Jesus made it clear that it was all about Him, and those without Him are in trouble. Therefore, we do not accept other religions as valid alternatives. In our opinion, we're actually being more loving by NOT tolerating other beliefs. If they lead to hell, why WOULD we tolerate them?

Anyway, my point is that you are indeed intolerant of Christianity, not just the attitude of certain Christians, as our God Himself said He is the only life, His ways (as recorded in the Bible) are the only way.

 

Yeah I guess bible quotes can be considered trolling to some people especially in this thread

My comments are directed to why there is a rise in the occult and paganism. As this is in the title of the thread.

 

Anyway... I'm still looking for good reading matieral.

well, i'm not a Wiccan myself, and offhand, i don't know any good general histories of modern Wicca, but give me a few days and i'll see if i can find you something.

Anyway, my point is that you are indeed intolerant of Christianity, not just the attitude of certain Christians, as our God Himself said He is the only life, His ways (as recorded in the Bible) are the only way.

i will admit that i have little tolerance or patience for any group which claims to have a monopoly on the truth.

yes, i understand that you're called to witness and blah blah blah and it's done for our own good so as to save our souls and so on and so forth. i appreciate that you believe yourself to be doing something good and necessary. however, K_G specifically asked for you to do it elsewhere, and it's clear that your witnessing is not particularly welcome here. the point of this thread is to have a discussion space for pagans and neopagans and occultists and so on and so forth where we wouldn't be harassed by people trying to save our souls. please respect that, could you?

 

i've read of him, is he the guy who calls himself the beast 666?

Yeah, I believe he did! Imho, he was a very confused and ill man.

Anyway... I'm still looking for good reading matieral.

There are several types of Wicca being practiced today. Gardnerian often claims to be the oldest and most "true to form" version, but that is highly questionnable. However, you might find Gerald Gardner and the Cauldron of Inspiration - an Investigation into the Sources of Gardnerian Witchcraft by Philip Heselton an interesting read.

we feel the same way about sin, and so it often comes across as us hating sinners

I feel that Christians often find themselves in dilemas. Whilst being on a mission to save souls and educate people on the subject of sin, etc. they often encounter the challenging issues of free will and choice. From time to time I have met Christians who are very keen to carry out what they see as a major part of their purpose in life - I've received emails full of bible quotes and threats of damnation, been preached to over AIM, etc. and ended up having to block several of these people over the years. Imho, these people are fanatical and due to their blindness and pure focus on their task of conversion, they fail to see that they are failing miserably due to the OTT methods and obvious lack of respect for free will and individual choice. There's a fine line between preaching and pushing just as there's a fine line between what is an interesting challenge and intolerance - it's all subjective unfortunately. As a Pagan, my view on religion is that all religions are right because all religions serve a similar purpose - suppose you could say that God made us individuals and therefore, why would he just give us one choice of salvation. For a religion to state it is the only truth does seem intolerant and arrogant, but that's the way most religions are so it has to be accepted.

Biblical quotes - hmm, whilst I'm sure it seems rational to use those to support an argument, there's one major thing that Christians who use them forget, especially in dealing with Pagans. That being, that they are often preaching them to people who don't believe in God, or if they do, that the bible is the Word of God, but the Word of God written by Man (to include all its variation, rewritings and translations over the years).

 

Yeah nobody has a monopoly on truth, some just get a lot closer to it.

For example 3+3=6 this is a truth.

It wouldn't matter at all if 6 billion people really wanted 3+3 to equal ten it would still be six at the end of the day.

They could make a law saying 3+3=10 but it would still be incorrect even if everbody believed it and wanted it to be so, formulating thier own math truths to suit thier personal feelings.

I can't really blame people for looking at things like Wicca, because some christian churchs are doing things that Jesus would never approve of, so it turns people off big time. So they look elsewhere to fill thier spiritual needs.

 

yes, i understand that you're called to witness and blah blah blah and it's done for our own good so as to save our souls and so on and so forth. i appreciate that you believe yourself to be doing something good and necessary. however, K_G specifically asked for you to do it elsewhere, and it's clear that your witnessing is not particularly welcome here. the point of this thread is to have a discussion space for pagans and neopagans and occultists and so on and so forth where we wouldn't be harassed by people trying to save our souls. please respect that, could you?

I've not witnessed in this thread, as far as I can tell. In any case, I will not keep my opinions to myself as long as I see the hypocricy of one claiming to accept all viewpoints and loving everyone, and then, in every single post, taking potshots on my faith.

I feel that Christians often find themselves in dilemas. Whilst being on a mission to save souls and educate people on the subject of sin, etc. they often encounter the challenging issues of free will and choice. From time to time I have met Christians who are very keen to carry out what they see as a major part of their purpose in life - I've received emails full of bible quotes and threats of damnation, been preached to over AIM, etc. and ended up having to block several of these people over the years. Imho, these people are fanatical and due to their blindness and pure focus on their task of conversion, they fail to see that they are failing miserably due to the OTT methods and obvious lack of respect for free will and individual choice. There's a fine line between preaching and pushing just as there's a fine line between what is an interesting challenge and intolerance - it's all subjective unfortunately.

Well, first of all only Jesus saves. Second, "free will" (not sure it even exists) does not exempt one from preaching the gospel. Granted, sometimes people don't do it in the best of ways, but at least they're obeying. They have the right to preach, you have the right to block.

 

Yeah nobody has a monopoly on truth, some just get a lot closer to it.

For example 3+3=6 this is a truth.

It wouldn't matter at all if 6 billion people really wanted 3+3 to equal ten it would still be six at the end of the day.

They could make a law saying 3+3=10 but it would still be incorrect even if everbody believed it and wanted it to be so, formulating thier own math truths to suit thier personal feelings.

I can't really blame people for looking at things like Wicca, because some christian churchs are doing things that Jesus would never approve

Sad that you actually believe that one myth is closer to a truth than any other myth.

 

Why is it sad?

 

F_I_D

Well 3+3=6 is no myth, it is a factual truth.

There are other truths just like that, that govern our universe, and they aren't myths either.