Speculation The role of Force ghosts in Episode VII

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Barth, Nov 22, 2012.

  1. Barth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    star 4
    Hey gang, Barth here. I have been thinking about the role of Force ghosts in Episode VII. I'm thinking they will be a big deal of the next star wars movie...here's why:

    1. Force ghosts have been emerging throughout the saga. They are kind of introduced in Episode III when Yoda talks to Qui-Gon. This interaction was kind of off camera, but discussed. It is understood that Yoda and Ben practice the techniques kind of discovered by Qui-Gon, but he only retains his consciousness. So Ben and Yoda are the first to become a Force ghost and still retain their form in some sense. Anakin probably learned this mostly on his own while meditating as Darth Vader and thinking about when he saw Ben disappear. We see as the OT progresses that these Force ghosts can interact with other Jedi....and then there is Ben's statement: "Strike me down, and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine". Why? Why so powerful? What is it about Force ghosts that make them so powerful? A lot of questions have emerged, but it would seem that this is a relatively "new" thing in the grand scheme of the Jedi order.

    2. The ST needs something new. We've seen Jedi fighting, light saber battles, space ship fights etc. We need something to make it really fresh and new. What about learning about another plane of existence? A separate "Astral plane" that Jedi can exist in and interact with the world. What is its nature? It is kind of like a Matrix thing to learn about another layer of reality.

    3. An old quote from Mark Hamill back in 1983 suggests that Luke will come back in another plane of existence. (~3:20)


    What was he talking about? Did he know something and was he talking about Force ghosts? Can he come in and out of the realm of the Force ghosts? What is the nature of the world that Yoda and Ben experience as Force ghosts???? Thanks.
    Last edited by Barth, Nov 22, 2012
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  2. LANDO_ROCKS Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2002
    star 4
    I can handle a force ghost of Luke or Yoda appearing, I don't want to see a young Anakin or young Obi-wan appearing.

    That said, I don't want SW to end up some sort of complicated ghost world movie where it's all explained what happens when a Jedi dies and becomes one with the force.
  3. ObidioJuan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2002
    star 3
    what's really interesting to me is that even back then they already had the idea of the three trilogies being openly discussed.
    And that it's already 8 years late!
    Again what a shocker that the saga changed from Luke's story to Anakin.
    And now it looks like the saga will be changed again from Anakin story to the Skywalkers.
    It's going to be a long wait, but I've been following since the original came out, I'm just glad I still enjoy them.
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  4. chris hayes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2012
    star 4
    I could tolerate Luke Skywalker as a force ghost if that's the only way we get to see Mark Hamill but really LEAVE OUT all force ghosts as I don't believe we need them in the new trilogy & if Hadyn Chritstenson appears as a force ghost then that to me is a get up & walk out of the theater situation .
  5. The Hellhammer 7SA Forum Interrogator

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    Nov 4, 2012
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    There are some things that I would really not want to be "explained" in the SW universe. Some mystery must remain, explaining everything would take away some of it's charm.

    The Force ghosts are supposed to be a kind of a rare and important thing, they should not be overused. A single ghost appearance at the right time is quite enough. Yoda or Obi-Wan, since Luke had direct contact with them and since they are the ones who figured out the Become-a-Ghost thing to it's full extent.
    I do not want to see Anakin, but I will admit that I am biased because I intensely dislike Hayden Christensen and I've had enough of him in SW.

    People have been suggesting that we should see Qui-Gon but that makes no sense really, since he and Luke have no previous connection. Yeah, that connection can easily be established in ST but I think that would only needlessly complicate matters. Even wilder suggestions have been of Mace alongside them, or even the whole bloody Council - which is just ludicrous.

    Anyway, the role of Force ghosts should remain a big deal that doesn't happen too often. They should be explained, but I don't really like the whole ghost-world idea. Then again, if done right it can be a nice addition to the saga.
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  6. bluemilkcheesypuffs77 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 1
    Do you think padme would come back as a force ghost? She was married to the chosen one and gave birth to pretty powerful force users. Would she wear Jedi robes??
  7. The Hellhammer 7SA Forum Interrogator

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    Nov 4, 2012
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    No.
  8. Saurion-Fett Force Ghost

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    Jul 3, 2001
    star 4
    LOl
  9. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

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    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
  10. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    That represents a failure to understand that Mace and the others didn't learn the technique. Lucas vetoed the suggestion of a Mace Force ghost a few years back IIRC.
  11. Barth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    star 4
    There is some truth to this statement. A lot of people didn't like the midi-chlorians for the same reason. However, I wonder if a very skilled writer and director can present it in such a way to still leave the magic and mystery intact, presenting more questions than answers and still be cool? Maybe its possible.
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  12. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

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    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    As far as we know the only Jedi we've seen on screen who can maintain consciousness after becoming 'one with the Force' are:

    Qui Gon Jinn
    Obi Wan
    Yoda
    Anakin

    How Anakin learned this, I'm not sure. I guess he was accepted by the others for bringing balance to the Force.

    SW takes heaps of inspiration and even story content from Eastern religion and mythology. Personally, I think it's likely we'll see Force Ghosts of those four characters as part of the next story cycle, as it is something that is found in Hindu epics, especially Mahabharata, which was clearly an inspiration for GL. The idea of gurus who transcend their mortal existence, or who existed previously and keep returning, is part of that tradition. They would also act like Bodhisattvas, who continue to return to earth to teach wisdom instead of entering Nirvana and ceasing to exist. So I can see it happening.
  13. Hero of Tukayyid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2012
    star 1
    We need to see a sith Force ghost.
  14. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    Jul 2, 2004
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    "Anakin, listen carefully," Obi-Wan interrupted. "You are in the netherworld of the Force, but if you ever wish to revisit corporeal space, then I still have one thing left to teach you."

    - The Life and Legend of Obi-Wan Kenobi
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  15. Barth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    star 4
    Good points. A couple more questions...

    Who would play Obi Wan? Maybe they could have Ewan McGregor play Obi Wan with a little make up and enough blur from the Force ghost haze. Or maybe they could bring back Sir Alec using some CGI like the Tron Legacy stuff bringing back a young Jeff Bridges? I think a lot of people may object to Hayden playing Anakin like the remade versions of ROTJ, but I think the reality of it is that he will. Yoda is no problem with CGI.

    Yeah, I think the likely scenario is that the Force ghosts will come back, the question is how much? Maybe it will be a very minor part of the ST, but on the other hand, if we look at the saga as a whole, in some ways their role has grown in significance to the point that it might be leading up to a bigger role in the ST.

    Here is a crazy thought. The Sith are completely gone, right? But Anakin's Force ghost remains. Could Anakin return to his Sith ways as a Force ghost and teach someone the ways of the Sith? This is very unlikely, but could be a surprising twist. It could be a way for the Sith to return.

    Maybe there could be a build up with more and more small details revealed about the Force ghosts, guiding Luke as he rebuilds the Jedi order. Then in the final movie of the Saga, we follow Luke as he disappears and becomes one with the force. Kind of vicariously experience dying and seeing Luke walk into the light so to speak or whatever it is like. It could be something new and fresh and a visually spectacular thing if done right.
    Last edited by Barth, Nov 23, 2012
  16. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

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    Nov 3, 2012
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    I said "onscreen" ;)
  17. Barth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
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    Certainly it is a mystery. There a lot of shots of Darth Vader meditating in his isolation chambers during the OT. Some used to speculate that he was pondering the fact that Obi Wan disappeared before his eyes, and was meditating with the Force on this for so long that he kind of figured out how to become one with the Force. That is my speculation on how it happened. Let's not forget how powerful Anakin was with the Force. Maybe he was so powerful that he could tap into knowledge that was beyond the average Jedi.
  18. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    There's also the ROTJ DVD commentary where Lucas says he was assisted by Ben and Yoda.
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  19. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    Vader's Canadian. He retired to his chamber to watch Hockey Night in Canada.
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  20. Barth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    star 4
    Interesting piece of info. Didn't know that. I'm not sure how they could do this. Maybe they could somehow quickly communicate with him before he died to give him the teachings on how to do it.

    ...unless...This raises all sorts of questions about the nature of the chosen one's actions. It raises the possibility that Anakin had planned his actions to fulfill the prophecy long before he did it, and had communicated with Ben and Yoda long before to learn the ways of becoming a Force ghost. Perhaps during his meditations Ben and Yoda communicated with Anakin and they planned this all along? Anyway, this is kind of another discussion altogether, but also kind of important to the matter at hand. It just seems like this is too much info to pass on so quickly and to me, it must have been communicated to Anakin over a long period of time, maybe at least weeks or months.
    Last edited by Barth, Nov 23, 2012
  21. DarkGingerJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2012
    star 1
    Yeah. I don't think it's good to have the ghosts still popping up from time to time. Obi-wan, Yoda Ghosts did their job and that's it. It's possible that Anakin Ghost stuck around telling Luke a few things and helped him out in the immediate aftermath of ROTJ. But...I don't think as ethereal beings they should be able to stay in the real world for a long periods of time. At a certain point, they fade away too.

    I wouldn't mind Luke Ghost tho, turning up in Ep 8 or something to train another Force/Jedi-to-be.
  22. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    In my mind, the Force ghost scene at the end of ROTJ means that Anakin, Yoda and Obi-Wan will always be there for Luke. Obi-Wan even says so literally: "Yoda will always be with you." IMO it's an obvious metaphor for the notion that your parents, teachers etc. who've shaped who you are will always be with you, even if they disappear from your life or pass away.(*) So those three Force ghosts have to be in the ST, otherwise that scene and that metaphor don't work. IMO.


    (*) This, by the way, is the reason why it's absolutely necessary for young Anakin to be the Force ghost at the end of ROTJ rather than old Anakin, IMO, but that's beside the point.
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  23. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

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    Oct 1, 2012
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    This is an interesting point. If you look at Campbell's monomyth, on which this is supposedly all based, we still have a few steps left that take place after the "ultimate boon" that was the ending of ROTJ: refusal of the return, magic flight, rescue from without, crossing of the return threshold, and master of two worlds.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth

    So this step might be the "master of two worlds." Interesting that you brought up "The Matrix," because those last few elements are there in the end of "Matrix Revolutions."
    Last edited by Count Yubnub, Nov 23, 2012
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  24. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

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    Nov 3, 2012
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    SW isn't "all based" on the Monomyth idea; Lucas discovered Hero With A Thousand Faces after he'd already been writing SW a while, and used some of its ideas as organizing principles for the two trilogies. He seems to be more influenced by paganism, "primitive" myth, and folklore than structuralist theories at this time. But I'll bet that Arndt turns to Campbell, in imitation of Lucas, and also to recapture the feeling of the OT.
    Last edited by The-Eternal-Hero, Nov 23, 2012
  25. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
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    Fair enough.