ST The role of the First Jedi

Anyone else have any last speculation on what role the First Jedi and their First Temple will play, in the plot of TLJ? What did Luke learn? What will Rey learn? Who are the caretakers? Why Porgs?

 

I think thats right. The EU had the je' dai as protectors who saw a balance in the light and dark as essential.

 

Interesting. At first, I was glad GL jettisoned the Kiber crystals from the 3rd draft. I’d rather our Force users have that mystical and intuitive connection. Then came midichlorians and then the Kiber crystals becoming canon. So, why no outrage over the latter as with the former?

 

Power leads to arrogance.

 

Sounds amazing. Gosh I love George.

 

My guess would be that he was hoping to find a way to communicate with Obi-Wan and Yoda, who he probably hadn't seen since ROTJ. But instead he discovers these tomes that depict a different outlook on the Jedi, and that the Prequel era Jedi were a deviation of what they were supposed to be.

 

In my episode IX story I created a mythology that showed that the Force itself was corrupted (without wishing to spoil things too much, should anyone still wish to read it) and it was Rey's role (via a prophecy) to basically fix it.

In general terms, I liked the idea that Rey brings things full circle, by sort of pressing a 'reset' button on the Force. The new Order she creates is based on how things change as a result.

 

I think Lucas years ago even before that talked about there being some powerful evil out there in the background unknown to the characters in the OT. Snoke would certainly seem to fit that and Pablo said that Snoke was one of the characters that they borrowed from Lucas quite a bit after he sold the rights

 

I like this general direction. With the title "The Last Jedi", it is interesting possibillity that Snoke was one of the first Force-users.

 

I remember hearing a rumor a while ago that Rey was a reincarnation of the first Jedi

 

I highly doubt there was only one "first Jedi" most likely a group of Force Sensitive people came together and collectively started the Jedi Order.

Yeah thats one of the many theories floating around. Nothing to give it more weight than any other.

 

I like it because it explains why she knows how to do everything

 

A couple of points. First, I think there needs to be a distinction made between the Original Sith (the currently hypothetical group at least somewhat resembling the Old Republic version), the Schismatic Sith (the group that split off from the Jedi about 2000 years ago per the Phantom Menace novelization which may have taken its name from the Original Sith) and the Banite Sith (the Order created by Darth Bane that was determined to crush the Light and rule the galaxy).

Second, I think a big part of what Luke will learn is that Dark =/= Evil. The Evil was the Schismatic or Banite Sith's corruption of the Dark Side attempting to crush the Light.

My hunch is that the True Dark Side is actually Passion (emotions both good and bad and the motivation to act) and that the original creed of the Sith was probably more in line with the one from Legends. "Peace is a Lie; there is only Passion. Through Passion I gain Strength. Through Strength I gain Power. Through Power I gain Victory. Through Victory my chains are broken. The Force will Free me."

Other than the line about Peace being a lie, there is nothing intrinsic to that code about these passions having to be negative emotions or the actions taken to be wicked acts. Love (a passion) being a strength and not a weakness is a trope as old as time. Defeating a conqueror or successfully completing a project are both victories worthy of praise.

I suspect that the Schismatic Sith focused exclusively on the power gained by the negative passions; Fear, Hatred, Envy and so forth; and in the aftermath the Jedi Order missed the trees for the forest and decided it would be safer to cut themselves off from ALL passions and focus purely on the Light Side which represented tranquility/peace. Thus, the first line of the Jedi Code... "There is no emotion; there is peace." But this was fundamentally broken for two reasons. First, that it was an action not taken out of peaceful consideration of the situation, but out of fear... the ironic crack in the Jedi's foundation that was the reason to forbid Anakin's training. Second, without some type of passion to stir things up, pure tranquility/peace leads to stagnation and institutional rot... which is precisely what killed the Old Jedi Order in the end. They could not see past their dogmas to the real threat until it was too late and were utterly incapable of dealing with Anakin's fears because they had so cut themselves off from real emotion they could offer only platitudes when what Anakin really needed was someone he could actually talk to about his fears and encouragement that he was not alone.

There's a reason why the Yin/Yang symbol is a swirl with dots of the other in each half and not two perfect half circles... nothing can survive if it remains all of one thing or the other; all Light is just as deadly to the soul as all Dark is. It is the two in motion; ever intermixing that creates balance and harmony in life; Peace and Passion; Light and Dark; Day and Night; Male and Female. The Banite Sith and Old Jedi Order got lost in the extremes... what comes next needs to balance them.

I don't think its an accident that Kylo Ren is seen as hyper-emotional. He is ruled by Passion and that needs to be tempered. By the same token though, Rey's biggest problem at the start of TFA was being too locked into stasis... unwilling to move on from an objectively horrible situation and her primary motivation during the first half of the film being to finish this business ASAP so she could get back to waiting in solitude for an event she deep down knows won't ever happen. Kylo was overrun with Passion, Rey was far too passive in her acceptance of her lot. It took a bit of chaos falling into Rey's life to break her out of it and my hunch is a big part of Kylo's path will be in tempering his passions.

 

I think the movies will try to claim something similar to that but its hard to argue against the Jedi having their knights act as monks in many respects when they only had about 20 Jedi Masters ever take off and do their own thing considering there were thousands of Jedi for quite a few years. I don't see how one Sith Lord playing politician with a plan all those years changes that. Its not like the Jedi weren't trying to find the other Sith Lord after Maul revealed himself. Not sure what is exactly canon now but if there was a Sith Temple under there that would explain them not being able to sense it was Palpatine besides the dark side growing with his rise. I guess their biggest argument would be that the strictness of the Jedi rules led to the chosen one falling to the darkside preventing Mace Windu from killing Palpatine. They were also playing on the arrogance of the Jedi in Ep 3 I guess with Obi Wan saying what he did to Dooku after being told a Sith Lord was in league with a bunch of Senators.

 

In the old cannon/Eu some Force-users were woshipped as gods.I think some of these Force-users may have been fleeing a revolt and were called to Arch-To and found a new way,a better way.

 

It’s been a few years since this thread was active, and we’ve all seen now how things played out with the first Jedi temple in the movies. But I was curious about what others thought the set-up may have originally been?

We know the temple was part of Lucas’s sequels, since he approved some of the concept art for it. So I suspect whatever storyline TFA was setting up that required the first Jedi temple would’ve also linked directly to Lucas’s ideas.

That old spoiler could still have been accurate at the time, with the sequels serving as a look into how the Jedi Order was born by virtue of showing us how it could be reborn. Similarly, at the time of TFA, Kylo Ren was being set up as a new archetype of darksider, so that could’ve also tied to the origin of the Sith.

Now, the movies ended up exploring almost none of this. But based on what we have found out since, my guess is the temple would’ve been used to explore the Whills, with Luke possibly working to re-establish a stronger connection to the Cosmic Force, a connection that may have atrophied in recent centuries due to the imbalance caused by the Sith.

Would Snoke have been linked to the origin of the dark side? Or, perhaps more likely, was he more like Luke, an otherwise mortal being who has nonetheless recently tapped into the actual source of the dark side?

Elements of this may still survive and be recycled in future stories, especially with a few shows possibly occurring in the Unknown Regions. But I feel that, with time and hindsight, we might have more clues now than before.

 

There is still plenty to explore indeed. I think originally, yes, Lucas had planned on a disgruntled Luke who was in self exile on this island, site of the first Jedi temple. When Han mentioned this in TFA, the images and feelings gave us fans goosebumps. But as you mentioned, they never explored it due to Luke being cut off. I wouldve had Luke in self exile to match Lucas's draft however he could still be in tune with the Force and studying the religion at the most enriched place in the galaxy. We could have a Luke who was grumpy and refuse to train Rey but st the same time know he is the only one who can help. His connection with the cosmic Force could have been shown as well as a scene with Luke communing with the Whills.

 

he reconnects at the end.. as we all must do.. i think the first jedi may have been more overtly religious worshipping the force more like a God to enhance their powers

 

From what we know of Lucas's plans, it's hard to know exactly how early Luke found the first temple. We know that at least part of the first movie was set only a few years after Return of the Jedi, and that Luke's overall mission throughout the trilogy is to train new Jedi and set up a new Order, which he succeeds in doing by the end. So I suspect that he actually found it very early on, and that this first temple was in fact his only temple, where he started to rebuild the Jedi.

I suspect, though without any basis, that some of the ideas for this were recycled later on, and that part of the reason for Luke's going to the temple was to amplify his presence in the Force and make himself felt to Jedi who survived Order 66. That way he would have gathered however many wanted to help him train a new Order around him, and he would have perhaps also sensed where new potential students might be found.

I also think Luke would have learned early on to commune with the Whills, and that this is how he would have learned more about how to train a new Jedi Order, rather than the Jedi texts that ended up being used in the sequels. Indeed, we've never really seen how Jedi train beyond a few glimpses here and there, so I think these films could have continued to show us more, and that many of the philosophical thoughts that Lucas shared symbolically in earlier movies and has since talked about explicitly through interviews, about the importance of symbiosis and understanding our place in the natural order, would have been lessons that Luke would impart on the new Jedi.