Discussion The role of the Muppets in the ST (seriously)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Barth, Mar 28, 2013.

  1. Barth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    star 4
    Hold on a second...I'm not saying that the Muppets (Kermit, Fozzie, Ms Piggy etc) will actually appear in Episode VII.

    What I am saying is that Disney, in addition to owning LucasFilm, also owns the Muppets and a lot of Jim Henson's puppet studios. We all know that Yoda was designed by Frank Oz, who is famous for voicing and performing many of the Muppet characters. I think there are many OT fans out there that like the fact that much of the OT was a physical puppet or costume.

    So do you think there will be more physical puppets in the ST given that Disney owns probably the most sophisticated puppetry studio in the world?
  2. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    I hope they go with a nice blend of CGI and practicle for both the aliens and effects in the ST.

    There is a difference between looking "real" and looking good. A lot of CGI stuff looks good on its own, but doesnt look like it actually exsists in the physical space in the environment. In those cases, I would rather see a puppet or costume that might not look as good as the CGI character, but looks more real in the space.
  3. LunarMoth Force Ghost

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  4. Artoo-Dion Chosen One

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    Jun 9, 2009
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    Yoda was performed by Oz but designed by Stuart Freeborn. Also, AFAICT, while Disney owns the Muppets, they don't own Jim Henson's Creature Shop.
    Barth likes this.
  5. Placeholder Force Ghost

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    Jan 30, 2013
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    No, I don't think we will see muppets. We'll probably see more practical effects, and sets in general. But not muppets.
  6. Barth Force Ghost

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    Oct 24, 2002
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    Yeah, in my opinion, stuff like robots and spaceships often looks fantastic in CGI. But the more dynamic, animated, and less rigid an alien gets, if often ends up looking fake in CGI. So, certain things like aliens might be better suited for puppets.
  7. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
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    For characters like Salacious Crumb, I would always want the puppet in a Star Wars film.

    Feels better.
    Barth likes this.
  8. Barth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    star 4
    Thanks for that clarification. You're right. It was only the IP associated with the Muppet characters (and the Bear in the big blue house). However, clearly, since the recent movie "The Muppets" was done by Disney (with consultation from Jim Henson Studios), it would seem that Disney has some know-how and technology in making puppets.
  9. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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  10. Placeholder Force Ghost

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  11. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    When they should use CGI and when they should use practical effects depends on what look they are going for. Also, I would not be surprised if Yoda and the Muppets appear together. Yoda always seemed like a Muppet to me. In fact, I had always thought that the only reason he wasn't a Muppet was because Lucas, not Henson and his successors, owned him.
  12. Darth Xalfrea Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2013
    star 4
    I dunno. Did you see their audition video back in the 80's? Irvin Kirshner, God rest his soul, was wise not to cast them.

  13. Vthuil Force Ghost

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    Jan 3, 2013
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    Personally, I think the era of puppets in speculative fiction films is over. If someone in a costume won't cut it, CGI is probably the only way.
  14. EviL_eLF Chosen One

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    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    Thought the practical Jabba was better than CGI Jabba as well. Don't need to see a Hutt slinking around.
  15. Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    LFL let a massive opportunity slide by not including these guys in the opera scene in ROTS:

    [IMG]

    Hopefully Disney will realise such a gross oversight and feature them as Republic Senators, but they're a bit polite, reasonable and subdued to be convincing politicians.
  16. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    Actually this is an interesting topic for two reasons:

    1- Most fans would probably agree they want more practical effects. I do!
    2- The PT replaced the traditional practical "puppets or muppets" with CGI

    Personally, as I've said many times, i want practical effects enhanced by CGI. Abrams did this very well in the Trek reboot. In fact I'd prefer puppets and live actors to CGI. For isntance I'd rather see live actors play Stormtroopers or any kind of mass warrior like Clone Troopers instead of CGI. I'd also like to see puppets enhanced with CGI.

    Surprisingnly good topic.
  17. Bobatron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
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    Muppets is a brand name, and not to include all puppets. Yoda wasn't a Muppet.
    Extra construction has to be done to a set for the use of puppets. Frank Oz seemed perfectly fine passing Yoda on to animators and just sticking with the voice. Don't expect it...unless J.J. Abrams just chooses to do so for a certain aesthetic.
    The constant speculative CGI vs practical stuff debate is silly. It can't be judged before something is actually produced and tends to be based on what has already been seen. People might have doubted the realism of Jurassic Park's dinosaurs when they first heard they would be computer-generated simply because their opinions would have been based on the known quality of digital effects before then. It bothers me that people can't lose themselves in the movies anymore and just marvel at the visuals rather than feel the need to know how they were made before deciding if they like them.
    Last edited by Bobatron, Mar 29, 2013
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  18. chris hayes Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 13, 2012
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    Kermit the Frog the Jedi ^:)^
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  19. Sum-Wan Jedi Grand Master

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    Feb 16, 2013
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    One example comes to mind.. The original Yoda puppet used in Episodes V & VI is the one we knew and loved, the new puppet used in Episode I just looked horrible, then it was replaced for CGI Yoda in Eps. II & III and for the Blu-Ray edition of Ep. I and it was much much better. I think when it comes to having an alien move and talk realistically, CGI just can't be beat; for background aliens that don't need a wide range of movement or facial expressions a puppet looks more real.
    BountyHunter76 likes this.
  20. LunarMoth Force Ghost

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    Nov 27, 2012
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    Absolutely!
  21. EHT New Films Manager

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  22. DARTHLARS Force Ghost

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    Mar 12, 2002
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    GL spoke in the "From Puppets to Pixels" behind-the-scenes video that Yoda was the "the illegitimate child of Kermit the Frog and Miss Piggy"... ;)

    A great deal of Jurassic Park that people believe were CGI was actually made as practical effects.
  23. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
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    I would LOVE a photorealistic version of them snuck in somewhere [face_laugh]
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  24. Jcuk Force Ghost

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    Mar 16, 2013
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    Salacious Crumb was a personal fave
  25. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
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    Technically true, though I find it more fun to say "muppet" than "puppet".