Discussion The role of the Muppets in the ST (seriously)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Barth, Mar 28, 2013.

  1. Han Yolo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2013
    star 2
    At this point I would rather see less CGI overall but I dont think puppets/muppets would cut it. More actors in costume though is something I hope that is seriously considered. Especially now with the level costume/makeup has come. There should be no real reason to CGI an alien in my opinion.

    Think about this. I think one of the reasons why Jar Jar was so hated was because he was done with horrible CGI. IF he was costumed with an actor. He might not have been so horrible.
  2. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Agreed.

    Plus, CGI has really improved since the PT was made, so they should really be able to make some great creatures/environments/space battles. The PT did some groundbreaking work on CGI; I think the new series will take it a few steps further in realism and visual spectacle.

    The Dinosaurs in Jurassic Park are a great example. I don't think the movies in general are great (in fact, beyond the first one, mediocre to really lame), but the dinosaurs were fantastic.

    I think the use of CGI in the new SW movies will be amazing, the makers will see to it. I think the expectations are huge from every direction: fans, Disney, Lucas, and the makers themselves- guys like JJ and Arndt
    are going to come in with a big vision for a project like this.

    I honestly don't think puppets will see the light of day in this.
    Last edited by Lee_, Mar 29, 2013
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  3. DarthPoppy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 4
    I want CGI muppets! Miss Piggy, Kermit the Frog, Fozzie Bear, Gonzo, Ernie & Burt rendered in lovely CGI!
  4. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 3
    CGI is fine, a long as its background stuff.
  5. Roger Goldleader Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2000
    star 3
    Yarael Poof could easily have been a practical effect.
  6. Healer_Leona Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2000
    star 9

    Yes! The overuse of CGI is why I dislike RotS as much as I do and I'd be just fine with a muppet or three as aliens in upcoming SW movies.
    Jcuk likes this.
  7. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    The first time I saw the Yoda puppet for Ep I was in a sketch on Conan Obrien. I thought it was made by the show for the skit, and was hilariously horrible looking. I was FLOORED when I learned that it was actually footage fro the film, and thus the real Ep I Yoda. Terrible.

    CGI Ep II and III Yoda looked good, and obviously if he's gonna move around, CGI is needed, but still Empire/Jedi Yoda was the best!
    kubricklynch and Jcuk like this.
  8. BountyHunter76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Muppets or Puppets in the ST... I think as someone referenced above, it may depend on the nature of the set design. If we get a lot of green screen sets, I'd say muppets/puppets are doomed.

    However, if they do build out larger sets with real mud, lighting, dirt, wind etc (which would be awesome) I'd say a puppet or two has a chance to be seen. Even for background characters, I feel you can avoid the Uncanny Valley effect if real stuff is used.
    LunarMoth likes this.
  9. Bobatron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    Jeez. Non-traditional effects in the Classic Trilogy wasn't limited to "background stuff" whatever that means, and there is more CGI used in modern movies than some people think.
    That actually could have taken more work than was required just to put that swaying neck in the council room.
    Jar Jar would have been even more ridiculous as a costumed human, and still just as disliked.
    Why am I here?
    Last edited by Bobatron, Mar 31, 2013
  10. StoneRiver Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2004
    star 4
    Muppets/puppets can be great when well used, as can completely CGI, but I would love to see puppets/costumes enhanced with CGI. As great as RotJ Jabba was, his eyes could be so much better. Same for ESB/RotJ Yoda. Absolutely fantastic work, but the mouth movements, eye movements, facial expressions could be so much better with some decent CGI work. (Both characters work tho, were both very believable thanks to the puppeteers and the actors interacting with them)

    I want them to harken back to the puppet days of the past, but utilise the technology of today to bring the puppets into the modern era.

    This is what my preference for the ST is.
  11. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    Am I the only one who loves both puppets and CGI?
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  12. StoneRiver Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2004
    star 4
    No, I'd be more than happy with some entirely CGI characters, along with some puppets enhanced with CGI, along with some prosthetics enhanced with CGI. Nemoidians mouth movements could have used some CGI
    Last edited by StoneRiver, Mar 31, 2013
  13. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 3
    If there's going to be cgi characters were asked to invest in then the Gollum method has to be used. If you've done it properly then fingers crossed. If its background cgi (crowds, city scapes, etc) then fill your boots ILM.
  14. Yodahasgreenfeet Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 2
    Similar to my thread but not quite what I meant or had in mind. I would love to see more traditional puppets. It would be a nice touch to give the movie a retro feeling.
  15. StoneRiver Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2004
    star 4
  16. General Immodet Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    Personnally, I like the use of puppets/muppets more than the use of CGI to create aliens.
    In my opinion, it feels more real to see an actual physical thing on screen than something that is computer-created.
    When I rewatch the PT, I can't help but think 'oh, Sebulba, Watto, San Hill and Grievous are computer-created'.
    Although they are quite well done (in terms of CGI), they just are not real.
    I think a lot of people love CGI because they have grown up with it.
    I still remember the bad use of CGI in the nineties that I just cannot really enjoy it.
    Jcuk likes this.
  17. fishtailsam Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
  18. janstett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2004
    star 3
    I heard they own everything of Henson's but CTW and the Sesame Street characters, some kind of grandfathered licensing exception.
    Last edited by janstett, Apr 1, 2013
  19. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    It's a little more involved than that, but basically this is correct.
  20. bluemilkcheesypuffs77 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
  21. Roberto Calrissian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 4
    I don't think you can make a Noghri out of a muppet..... but it would be funny to see that creation
  22. Artoo-Dion Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2009
    star 4
    Well, it's not quite a mop and it's not quite a puppet, but man... [face_laugh]

    So, to answer your question: I don't know.
  23. fishtailsam Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    Henson's workshop does some cool puppet CG hybrids. Computer model controlled with a puppet, then you aren't limited to a "puppet" sized anything, but you can still get that "alive" feel that really great puppeteers can give you.
  24. gregvader123 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2012
    star 2
    I think not. Jar Jar is hated because he is an excessively goofy and annoying character that tried too hard to appeal to kids all the while speaking a clich├ęd-ridden, border-line racist dialect.

    You can change the way a bad character looks all you want, but spraying perfume on a pile of sh** doesn't change the fact that it's still sh**. It's the substance that makes us truly hate or love a character, not his presentation.
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  25. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    I wouldn't mind seeing the Muppets in the ST, but Star Wars isn't known for it's breaking the fourth wall humor.