ST The ROTJ ending makes me really sad now. :(

I think it's natural that many envisioned their own versions of the SW universe post-ROTJ. As soon as Episodes VII-IX were announced though, it should have been clear that almost none of them were going to be realized. I like TFA very much, but it isn't without flaws. I choose to continue on the journey anyway, hopeful that the ultimate conclusion will be as rewarding as what we've been treated to so far--if not more so.

 

Well, I guess there's no accounting for the subjectivity of fans who feel railroaded like you.

 

Yes i would have been absolutely fine with not having them in the movie at all since its a NEW story with NEW characters. Don't use them just to have them in it. If you take Han & Leia out of this movie..its really good.

 

I like that C-3PO and R2 took a backseat. They still have a role, and probably always will. Buy in TFA they show there's more characters than them, and they're just as good. I've really taken to BB-8 and like him as much as R2, and it's only one film in. Characters come and go...but the story goes on.

 

The problem with taking Han, Leia, and Luke out more people would be upset about the movie for sure. It is a no win situation. More people like this movie than those who hate it. The fans have been the most critical so far. I could see people disliking the film but calling it terrible? The movie is not terrible that is emotions speaking not observation IMO.

 

I think there was a balance to be struck. They had to introduce the new characters first, and Han was enough of a callback to the past for now. Sprinkle the original cast members out across the films.

 

I've noticed a lot of the posters here who are bitter are people who signed up (for the first time, I'm sure) within the last week.


Just sayin

 

A saga, when told over many decades, will always conclude on a sad note.

That's how life works......you savor your victories.....because you know that it won't always be smooth sailing..

 

whats wrong with that? i never had any grievances with the saga until now and needed to vent. i don't see a problem.

 

Good for you, then. You've found the right place.

A plausible explanation for others is that they're regular posters here creating socks.

 

Don't worry too much.

You will be happy again by the end of Episode IX.

 

I also posted the same complaint against the movie. The problem is that it is not simply a "bad time" it's bad time for everyone. Strangely I have less problem with the Leia-Han story arc, because it is clear that they still love each other. I have no problem with Ben's turn to the Dark Side at all: face it the Force has two sides, it happens (LOL Sith happens) especially in families that directly come from the Force itself. I don't mind that the New Republic has problems, it's the way of politics... But I do not like that Luke's life is totally destroyed with the rebuild Jedi Order. As it was said it shows the Force is again off balance. I feel it was too much, it doesn't fit really with the other six movies at all... The storyline should have found another solution to make Luke disappear.

 

I'm trying to be nice but this needs to be said-Some of the H/L fans who are acting it's the end of world because a fictional couple broke up maybe needs to find another franchise/couple to ship where all there is bland HEAs and where nobody dies.

 

Well he haven't heard anything about the force being out of balance.

 

The prophecy was for Anakin to bring balance to the Force. It was never established how or when. We just assumed that the end of ROTJ was the point where he destroyed the Sith/dark side forever. That may have just been the beginning.

Anakin speaking as a ghost to Kylo at some point could be the turning point. Now, I don't see how they could ever redeem Kylo. He ordered the burning of a village and killed his own father. That's the least. He could end up sacrificing himself like Vader but it doesn't mean he would have to be considered redeemed.

The irony would be if Kylo saying "finsihed what you started" to Vader ended up meaning bringing balance to the Force. He just doesn't know that's what Anakin started.As for Han and Leia-yeah that is TERRIBLY sad but there are stories to be written showing the fruits of their labor after ROTJ. Who knows-maybe Han has a recessive allele for the Force and can somehow show up as a Force ghost lol.

As for Luke, well Yoda was 900 years old. Obi-Wan was much older than Luke and had to spend 20 years on a remote desert planet. Luke failed as a Jedi master at a very very young age. It is sad but that doesn't mean he doesn't have time now to develop into the greatest Jedi master of all time.

 

Look I'm not bitter. I thought it was a good movie and enjoyed it. I just think there are loads of problems when viewed from the previous 6 episodes and the Star Wars saga as a whole. The whole Kylo Ren character and the premise of him existing at all has loads of problems in itself let alone something like a smaller First Order remnant having the where with all and funds to build a weapon out of a planet when the GALACTIC EMPIRE was only building Death Stars.

 

I signed up when TFA opened and have no bitterness at all towards TFA or what it means in the star wars universe. Some people just had unrealistic expectations and many of them aren't just ones who recently joined these boards.

 

Here's how I look at it: When my mother was a teenager, her father was gunned down by a disgruntled business partner a handful of days before his birthday. It was an awful, tragic occurrence of senseless violence. But it didn't invalidate the happy times my mom and grandmother spent with him. My grandparent's wedding day wasn't some tragic harbinger of future doom, it was a celebratory moment of present happiness.

That's what the ending of Return of the Jedi is, and that's what it always was. It never led to "And they all lived happily ever after," it was a snatched moment of joy and happiness and triumph, and I think that makes it all the more important, rather than it being somehow invalidated or tragic. Happiness isn't negated because of sadness. Rather, sadness is why happiness is so important, and I think that's a more important lesson to take from the films than "Everything was okay forever and ever."

 

The "it had to be this way(Aka Dark Times/OT Part 2)" excuse is such a cop out for the lazy and unimaginative story creating that Has been applied to the setup of this ST.......

But I guess I shouldn't be surprised by it.....after a decade+ of "Star Wars sucks if it's not nearly identical to the OT" ****fest.

Happy Endings don't last very long huh???, It's Not Realistic??????......hmmm well the Earth doesnt have Jedi do they. Yoda and his Order Protected and maintained peace across a huge swath of the GFFA for 1000 years.....Don't say it can't happen...because it already has in the GFFA.

But that's beside the point. The point is that it was JJ/Georges/Kasdans/KK//Disney whoever else was involved....job to create a villain/conflict that could take our heroes on...AFTER All the growing and strength they acquired through their struggles in the OT....

Not come up with excuse after excuse for why these characters are stuck in essentially the Same place 30+ years later....So that Disney can stay in its nice little comfort zone of OT Dynamics.

Jedi virtually extinct
Super Duper New Chosen One
Renegade Masked Skywalkers
Planet Sized Super Weapons
Wise Cracking and quipping Overload
No broader Skope of the Political Setting
Small Rag tag team of rebels vs The Empire
Harsh under populated planets out in the outer rim.

All that stuff worked great and fit in with where the narrative was after the massive shatter point that occurred in
Episode III......but it looks woefully out of place(And disrespectful IMO) after the ending we actually got in ROTJ.

ROTJ should have signaled the end of the Dark Times. Yes the GFFA would face new challenges and struggles....but the Jedi should have been there to face those challenges with it....

 

where's your proof that Pablo said that the "academy" attacked happened less than 14-15 years before TFA?

 

Well said

Yeah, 100% agree. It's ironic since it's so frequently hilarious, but The Force Awakens is darker than anything in the OT, and more of a bummer overall.

Especially with the failure to show a proper amount of mourning for Han. The death of one of the most iconic and beloved characters in the history of not just Star Wars, but in all of cinema, was blown by much more quickly than other deaths of much less iconic and beloved heroes in other films.

 

It have been many years seeing the previous movies. Seeing the new chapter breaks the idea we had forged in our minds. It's strange, yes, but it's what happens when stories are continued. I feel weird too, because I loved the happy end of "Return of the Jedi". I think the journey of Luke was complete. The same for Anakin. The six movies were perfect in certain senses. They are a circle, they told us a story with clear messages and everything in them was there for a reason. This creates strange feelings for us when we see Episode VII.

But, in a logical way, I think the happiness can't last forever. The galaxy will end had another enemies. I guess what we have seen in Episode VII was inevitable in some ways.

 

Completrly beside the point, but LOTR has a very bittersweet ending. Frodo's wound never heals, and at least in the book, he goes unrecognized and ultimately disrespected by his own people. He then sails off into the West to die. And with his departure, and the departure of Gandalf and Galadriel, an age of magic and myth disappears from the world.

I harp on this point because of what someone else said about fairy tales requiring perfectly happy endings. That's a very narrow understanding of such tales, and might be due to a limited diet of overly saccharine Disney tales of the modern era. Many fairy tales have far deeper meanings, and lessons that go well beyond "everything will be fine, no matter what."

TFA is indeed a fairy tale. One that shows us both hardship and hope. And it's better for it.

 

I completely get the OP's criticism. In many respects it was the characters all being reset to their default positions which also contributed to the film feeling like something of a retread for me. Having said that though I think that having to set the film so long after ROTJ due to the actors' ages in some respects made it inevitable. I've seen some comments that people have made saying that they were far more interested in the off-screen events rather than the film itself (Han & Leia raising a son, Luke's new Jedi academy, the appearance of Snoke, Kylo's fall to the Dark Side etc.) and I agree to an extent. In fact I imagine you could have a trilogy of films depicting those things. In between ROTJ and TFA I imagine the characters got a decent amount of time living 'happily ever after' and I imagine if the ST had been set in that time frame it would have got less criticism from us fans (and I include myself amongst those critics). However, ultimately it would have required too much suspension of disbelief. I suppose they could have got away with setting it ten years earlier but it's still a considerable amount of time after Endor.

I'm also not of the opinion that Kylo idolising Vader undoes Anakin's redemption in ROTJ. At the end of the day he idolises Darth Vader not Anakin Skywalker and I think there's a pretty big difference. In some respects it ties in with Obi-Wan's comment that when he became Vader, Anakin basically died, similarly I think it works the other way around as well. He's idolising Vader, the mass murderer and tyrant, not Anakin Skywalker, the young hero of the Clone Wars and then much later the father who killed Palpatine to save his son. I think it would have been better had they kept Anakin's force ghost in the movie though. Even one short scene (maybe a flashback) of Anakin's ghost telling Kylo that Darth Vader isn't someone to be idolised, that he regrets what he did and the finally urges him not to not to make the same mistake he made would have made it seem less of an issue I feel. Maybe that will come in Episode VIII. Now Luke's back I imagine we'll see some force ghosts, if not I'll be very disappointed.

 

He said it in the last couple of days on his Twitter feed in response to a question. Sorry I don't know how to link directly to the tweet.