The ROTS Conspiracy Theory Thread

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Master_Shaitan, Aug 15, 2005.

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  1. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    Now this may appear as a bit of an obscure thread but lets just run with it.

    We have all had ideas and theories about Star Wars which may or may not have come true after watching ROTS. I'll hold my hands up, for some time I believed that Mace Windu played a role in the creation of a clone army (though im yet to be proven wrong by hard core facts! lol). I thought before watching ROTS that there wouldnt really be any questions left, but I was wrong. Of course there are. We can find a question anywhere.

    But what about a real theory which changes the balance of the film and its characters? Did anything happen or not happen in the film that made you think 'outside the box'. Well, here is mine. Im not sure whether it can be proven wrong but if it cant - listen up George Lucas.

    ----------

    I have a thought in my mind that suggests that Anakin Skywalker, a.k.a. Darth Vader, did not kill the younglings in the council chamber.

    Why, you ask?


    Firstly, it comes down to my hopes. Despite the fact that the idea of killing them is very strong and emotive, it just seemed too much to me. Could we ever forgive Vader for such a crime? Could he really have any good in him left? It just seemed too evil to me.

    Secondly, there has always been good in Anakin/Vader. There always was. What if he went against the order to kill them? What if he believed he could avoid it? I mean, killing the seperatists is one thing - but younglings?

    Thirdly, the more evil acts Anakin commits the more powerful he becomes with the dark side. Well, after doing that to younglings he should be extremely powerful - strong enough to kill Obi wan perhaps? Well, what if the reason he couldnt achieve this and be more powerful is because he didnt kill the younglings?

    Lastly, the line from Obi Wan puzzles me - "I saw a security recording of Anakin killing younglings".

    The footage that Obi wan see's I thought was of Anakin killing a few real jedi and padawans. I didnt see any younglings. Later Yoda says that "killed by clones this padawan was not".

    Now, I could be wrong. Im not sure whether Padawans can be younglings or not, but either way, I didnt think Obi Wan saw the footage of Anakin killing the younglings in the Chamber.

    Perhaps its just my imagination running wild - but a little part of me just hopes that Vader lead a few of those kids away, put them in a capsule with Jucosta Nu and let them fly off to a safe haven somewhere in the galaxy.

    "He said you have turned to the dark side and killed younglings"

    Maybe Obi Wan was wrong. Maybe he didnt see the slaughter. Maybe there was no slaughter. If that is the case, maybe we cant blame Anakin for saying:

    "Obi Wan is trying to turn you against me"!

    *Flame away or add your own ROTS conspiracy theory*
  2. Darth_Turkey Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2004
    star 4
    I have a thought in my mind that suggests that Anakin Skywalker, a.k.a. Darth Vader, did not kill the younglings in the council chamber.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    But then Yoda would be wrong when he finds the childs body and says.

    "Killed not by clones, this Padawn was, but by a lightsabre". So if anakin did'nt do it, who did?
  3. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    I accept that darth turkey. Anakin did kill those Padawans - but im referring to the younglings in the council chamber...
  4. jedimasterinu Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2005
    star 4
    I too hope Anakin did not kill the younglings. When I heard the kid say "Master Skywalker whats wrong?" or something to that extent I become sad. When Anakin ignites his saber I felt it was over for the kids, but since they cut away they might still be alive. Although Anakin went to the Darkside I don't think he would kill kids.
  5. Darth_Turkey Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2004
    star 4
    I dont know. From the way the clones entered the building, i dont think anyone survived. Bail says he saw thousands of troops attack the temple, and you saw how they shot to kill the young padawn on the landing platform, no one survibed that raid, and if they did, i'm sure Yoda or Obi-wan would have senced them when entering the temple.

    Obi-wan does see anakin slaughtering younglings on the video recording, only we dont get to see that, purly cos Lucas did not want child murder to appear in his movie. It's implied from the look on Obi-wans face. We dont always see everything that goes on in a movie and must rely on dialogue for what we dont/cant or are'nt allowed to see. Obi-wan would not lie about this, he is a Jedi, jedi do not lie or bend the truth to serve their purpose. And what purpose would it serve if he was lying? Whether he killed children or adults it does;nt realy matter. He has ecome a killer and must be stopped.
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  6. Get_in_Gear Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2004
    star 5
    Anakin killed the younglings.
  7. darkscout36 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2005
    star 1
    anakin killed the younglings, it just wasn't showed. The reason they were in the middle of the hallway instead of in that room where Anakin found them was probably they ran away invididually and Anakin had to chase them down, some in the hallway, some elseware.
    The scene of killing innocent youth was probably too much to be put onto a Star Wars Movie. To make the audience feel vader is evil as it gets, it gives u the idea of what he did, not what he exactly did.
  8. darko_blade Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2005
    I can see your point - if Anakin slaughtered younglings, could he ever be good? How could he ever forgive himself after such an awful thing...and after all, he would believe that he had killed his own children when Padmé died...

    So, technically, that's 2 sets of kids he "killed".

    I think his killing of the younglings was implied. George Lucas didn't want to show him murdering them, because it was too much - it was infinite evil and if we saw it, how could we ever believe Anakin still had good in him? The idea was not to show us, to let us think about it. It's proven fact that you can forgive people for something far more easily if you never saw them commit the act.

    I believe he killed the younglings.
  9. Darth_Turkey Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2004
    star 4
    The scene is meant to show that Anakin, is dead, and darth vader now lives.

    "When that happened,the good man who was your father was destroyed"

    "The boy you trained, gone he is, consumed by darth rader"


    Anakin could never kill kids, this is why he is redeamed and takes on the form of his younger self at the end of ROTJ. Anakin was not evil and commited no evil, darth vader did.
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  10. SEPARATESICKLEROOK2 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2003
    star 2
    I think its funny how we can swallow mass murder as long as it doesnt involve children. People can say " oh killing sand people and separatists is one thing, but not poor innocent children". If you're killing, you're killing. Either embrace full murder or stray from it entirely, there are no boundaries. In the sense of ROTS, the younglings of today would be the jedi of tomorrow, so to the sith, they had to be destroyed. the only one anakin ever seemed conflicted about killing was obiwan. And nobody said that anakin 'enjoyed' it, it was just what he thought he "had" to do. He cried throughout the separatist slaughter. Anakin not only betrayed others in his downfall, he betrayed himself as well. "The darkside grows more insidious the closer you draw to it, until it makes a mockery of who you once were."-Bastila Shan, KOTOR.
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  11. Get_in_Gear Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2004
    star 5
    Anakin had already killed Tusken women and children indiscriminately.

    Rather than saying "how could Anakin be redeemed after killing children?", it seems to me the fact that he plumbed such depths is the reason he needs redeeming in the first place...
  12. barnsthefatjedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2001
    star 5
    The younglings are dead son; accept it.

    Die thread, die.
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  13. i_dont_know Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2005
    star 4
    I partly disagree. It was meant to show Anakin was dying. He doesn't totally abandon himself until his second last scene ("Noooooo!"). This is why Sidious is laughing here.
    But I agree he wasn't technically Anakin during the temple raid either. I think Yoda failed when he told Obi-Wan that Anakin was already gone. He was still redeemable at this point, but nothing Obi-Wan could have done would help - just seeing Obi-Wan made Anakin lose himself more. Sneaking aboard Padme's ship didn't help.
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  14. dude4c Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2003
    star 3
    there is no conspiracy, vader killed the younglings. he became one of the most feared sith lords ever. his killings went on for 3 more movies and countless chapters in between. i know you want to have hope, but the fact is that Darth Vader was one of the most ruthless villians in film history.
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  15. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    Then my hero is truely dead...lol

    Ok, ok. I still say that lack of evidence suggests that they could be alive!

    Anyone got any conspiracy theories they'd like to share?

  16. Get_in_Gear Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2004
    star 5
    John Lennon's murder was arranged by the FBI... :p
  17. Jedi-Queen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 4
    They're dead, he killed them, just have to accept it.
    By that time he is a bad guy. For all intention purposes he
    is Vader without the suit. He slaughters children - that is as
    far from the person we see as Ani in EPI/II as you can get.
    He's aligned himself with the Sith, he committed atrocities
    and he turned on his wife and mentor. He's lost for the
    next 20 yrs at least :)
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  18. All_Powerful_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4
    Nope. It was a black hole and Anakin fell all the way down. He never fully rights the wrongs, either, but he does manage to save his son.
  19. PadwanKayla Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2005
    star 4
    Although GL?s intention was for us to think that Anakin killed the younglings and perhaps GL believed also that he did, it could very well be that Anakin did not. I?m likin? this idea as I am an Anakin defender.

    Perhaps, Anakin?s character has decided to take his fate into his own hands. I?m going with the idea which is presented in the book ?Sophie?s World? that once a character is released from an author?s mind, it becomes an independent entity and has some sense of free-will that the author cannot control and in fact may not be aware of.

    As we only see Anakin killing older Padwans, it could very well be that he has whisked the younger ones away. He never did admit to Padme that he killed them and he couldn?t tell Obi-Wan at this point as the Emperor would have surely found out. Anakin was prepared to take the blame for this in order to preserve their lives.
  20. FRANKTHERABBIT Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2004
    star 4
    Pity there is no substantial evidence to back up the topic of this thread.

    Anakin killed younglings - period.

    Anything else is wishful thinking not based in the plot of ROTS.

    Move along, move along...

    ;)
  21. Get_in_Gear Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2004
    star 5
    Okay, okay I'm a little bored - how about this old chestnut:

    ---------
    Yoda and Mace were holding out on the Jedi Order.
    They knew more about the prophecy than they really wanted to.
    ---------

    For them, the fight against the Sith was essential - it was their duty.
    But by the same token defeat, and the coming of the dark times, was inevitable.

    I always liked the following dialogue which was dropped from AOTC, and hoped that this aspect of the prophecy may be revisited in ROTS:

    MACE: "Why couldn't we see this attack on the Senator?"
    YODA: "Masking the future, is this disturbance in the force."
    MACE: "The prophecy is coming true, the dark side is growing."
    YODA: "And only those who have turned to the Dark Side can sense the possibilities of the future. Only going through the Dark Side can we see."
    MACE: "It's been ten years and the Sith still have not shown themselves. Do you think they are behind this?"
    YODA: "?Out there, they are. A certainty, that is."


    Alas, the idea was dropped altogether.
    Or is there something to be said for the idea that Yoda's retreat from the Sidious duel is his final acceptence of this inevitable truth - the future belongs to the Sith, because it is as much a part of the Prophecy as the fact that the Chosen One will eventually bring balance?

    Then there was the quote from Frank Oz in Empire Magazine. He was asking Lucas for direction on how to play Yoda, and inquired how much of what is going on Yoda knows about. I forget the exact phrasing, but Lucas' answer was basically "yes, he knows everything."

    Food for thought if nothing else...
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  22. PadwanKayla Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2005
    star 4
    An interesting idea.

    Yoda had made the comment that the prophecy might have been misread. Perhaps he was alluding to the fact that most Jedi were assuming that the Chosen One would have immediately destroyed the Sith. Obi-Wan virtually says this in his last speech to Anakin ? you were meant to destroy the Sith not join them. Yoda could very well have known that patience (rather ironically) was needed before the Chosen One would fulfill the prophecy.
  23. D_Lowe Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 6
    Then who was it that killed the younglings with a lightsaber as Yoda said to Obi-Wan?
  24. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    Nice one GiG!

    I forgot about that little cookie.

    Obviously the jedi stuck to their duty and that idea was dropped. But as you said, Yoda does realise that it is time to walk away and that links back to the discussion with mace that you posted.

    Perhaps the jedi should have allowed the Sith to take control without having to lose so many of their lives?
  25. Jedi-Queen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 4
    "Perhaps the jedi should have allowed the Sith to take control without having to lose so many of their lives?"

    umm does someone forget what the Jedi are supposed to stand for?
    "guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy".
    They're selfless, they don't care as much about themselves
    which is why they charged ahead trying to defend the republic
    and in the end most of them lost their lives.
    They're too noble to say **** this, let's save ourselves.
    tsk tsk!
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