1. RPF Award Voting has Begun!

    Click here to view the ballot!

Reference The RPF Policies, Programs, and Events Thread - Now Disc.: New User Welcomes

Discussion in 'Role Playing Resource' started by Imperial_Hammer, Aug 24, 2008.

Moderators: Penguinator, Ramza
  1. DarthXan318 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 6
    "Tag: None" is different from just "Tag", IMHO. One is "I don't need anyone to reply to my post" the other is "???" - and I have seen people just write "Tag" when they really mean "Tag: Everyone else in the shop" and this is apparent after reading their post. I just think that tags are very useful if they're used correctly, and a waste of typing if they're not.

    ... Then again, I have a nitpicky mind. Sorry. :p


    And the point I was trying to make with the Mary Sue thing is that ... newbies shouldn't create characters that a GM would take one look at, laugh, and throw out without a second thought.
  2. DarthCemeroX Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2007
    star 4
    Oh okay, I didn't get at first what you meant by no tag, I thought they'd actually post tag: none

    My mistake...in terms of Mary Sue I agree.

    Perhaps there should be two people in charge of this by the way. So there'd be a system of checks and balances if you will. A pres and vp so to speak.

  3. LightWarden Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    Well, we've got a Mary Sue infestation that's crept into the "oldbie" ranks as well. This whole "different people have different standards" bit is accepting enough that people manage to cripple themselves with amazingly bad wish-fulfillment characters and never really get beyond that. It's really quite aggravating. I'm talking people who can manage to shoot so far up the litmus test that it bypasses the "kill it" phase and goes straight into "stake it, decapitate it, and leave its remains in the sunlight to ensure that it doesn't return in unlife".
  4. Kev-Mas_Colcha Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2002
    star 5
    The litmus test cannot judge context, so it can be inaccurate.
  5. DarthCemeroX Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2007
    star 4


    I think that test is basically overkill let players an GMs work out the issues that need to be. But no need to completely pick apart and over analyze, that takes the fun of roleplaying right out at its legs..
    What you describe as Mary Sue qualities, in literature and storytelling are naturally recoccuring themes, character points, and plot ideas.
    Every story can be traced to the same cliches for the sole reason a good story doesn't work without certain amounts of them.
    I'm not saying a MAry Sue is bad, but this litmus test seems like beating a horse once it's already glue.



    I don't honestly suggest any newbie sit there and fill out that test, to be blunt it's just ridiculous. I have been through games with Mary Sue esque characters, Newbie and Oldbie games alike.

    People will put personal traits into their characters. Role Playing is expression, it should be seen as an art form, and in art you put things of your inside self you can't or choose not to physically manifest, into your character. Making him look the way you do or wish you did look isn't a problem. Many of these questions in the litmus test seem like utter overkill. The character approval lies in the hands of a GM, if they okay it, that's fine. Players should avoid God Modding, but that's it. People who feel the need to use this test are either very high on themselves or are just being far too picky to enjoy roleplaying.
  6. Saintheart Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    Greetings, folks -- firstly, I need to deliver an apology at large if people have been wondering whether I'm sitting back on my heels and what have you. Truth is, Darth RL's been kicking my head in recently, and strangely, updating an RPG and then addressing other issues in other threads has been pretty taxing combined with that. Nonetheless, my apologies.

    Turning to the present debate, I should reveal any apprehended biases right at the start: I was never an adoptee. Having said that, I never felt I needed to be: I came to these forums after I'd already had a semi-decent amount of offline roleplaying experience. Not to mention that I was already in my mid-twenties, and rightly or wrongly age does play a factor in your own self-confidence. Thus I had enough confidence to dip a toe in the water, play a couple of games, and get myself up to speed. As it is, IBOP was my "master" -- minus LS_A's occasional and understandable Darth RL difficulties -- that RPG was the definition of how proper, or at least acceptable, GMing and RPing ought be done. LSA and his sub-GMs held tight discipline without being authoritarian, and it worked. It's affected my roleplaying and GMing style ever since.

    Having said that I do regard the adoptions program as essential, and one that we definitely need to foster. After all, my good co-mod is the ultimate advertisement for the adoption process: padawan to Darth_Elu if I remember correctly, creator of several successful games, and finally the successor to NP's crown. (Albeit that it's a girly crown :D :D :D )

    So the discussion we're having is important, to say the least.

    Turning my mind to those things we've talked about already:

    Adoptions Coordinator: Good idea, and it spares Hammer and I an extra duty that honestly I'm not sure either of us have time for at the moment. But no, Cemero, it doesn't need two people. If there's a problem with the A.C., as with any GM or any player on the RPF, the mods are your avenue of appeal. And I think that sort of acrimonious scenario is going to be quite rare.

    Community: Yep, we need to build a stronger community in here. And that's going to come from a bigger base of people who share the same "language", or at least the same appreciation for the conventions of RPing on these boards. So even more reason for the Adoptions process to be in place.

    Games, Quizzes, and Tournaments: Yes, and definitely matters for the Adoptions Coordinator IMHHO. Helps justify the proposed VIP status we've been talking about.

    Definable standards: This one seems to have justifiably attracted the most discussion, which is good. Having said that, I believe we have to remember that we're dealing with new people in the adoptions program -- it is the "Welcome Wagon" of the forum, not its remedial class (much as I sometimes think we could use one... :D ) so whoever goes in as AC will have to, as Hammer rightly says, be a people person and be a person who has good judgment about where to draw the line between "It's okay, you're learning" and "You will give me ten perfect IC posts on your knuckles, soldier! NOW!!"

    Putting my own two Republic credits (good anywhere bar Tatooine, by the way) into the mix:

    1. Use IC/OOC/Tag/Location conventions

    Yes. Essential. Should be part of the education of every RPer, along with familiarisation with other less-known conventions (CS; OOG; tl/dr; etc, etc)

    2. Use proper spelling/grammar/capitalization

    This one's a curly point. I think substituting "proper" with acceptable is the better way to go -- because much as I get irritated by poor English usage, William Strunk's corpse is probably doing 200 rpm with my writing alone. Having said that, really poor English, or l33tsp3@k, is not acceptable and needs work. And lest anyone misunderstand why I'm so hot on this issue: it's simply because this is setting out explicitly what many people already believe implicitly -- if you're writing with the spelling and grammar of a five ye
  7. DarthCemeroX Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2007
    star 4
    When will we be naming a coordinator.
    Or are we not up to that point yet. Just asking out of curiousity.
  8. Saintheart Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    Not up to that point, I think. More discussion is needed.
  9. DarthCemeroX Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2007
    star 4
    All good, makes sense I was just curious.

    Back on topic

    Adoptions Coordinator: Good idea, and it spares Hammer and I an extra duty that honestly I'm not sure either of us have time for at the moment. But no, Cemero, it doesn't need two people. If there's a problem with the A.C., as with any GM or any player on the RPF, the mods are your avenue of appeal. And I think that sort of acrimonious scenario is going to be quite rare.

    I see you point, I only suggested it just to see what others thought.

    I remeber a few posts back somebody mentioned a sort of bi-weekly update. I really agree with the idea. I think both the adopter and the adopted should be required to submit one. To ensure both parts of the team is pulling their weight. However it should be discussed what in particular you wish to gain with them.

    Character Development
    Participation
    Grammar
    Godmoding
    Interraction with other players
    Involvment with the community
    To throw out a few obvious ones.

  10. Saintheart Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    Whilst I agree routine updates are desirable, I think bi-weekly is probably getting a bit too frequent. Getting hit up by the A.C. every 3-4 days with demands for updates as to how your adoptee/adopter is doing has every prospect of discouraging either adopters to volunteer, or outright to leave the RPF because of the time costs involved, and adoptees to run and hide because it's too intimidating. Plus it assumes that people are able to get on here every day, which just ain't so. Every two weeks is probably a more realistic timeframe IMHO.
  11. DarthCemeroX Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2007
    star 4
    Monthly perhaps.
    I suggested bi weekly because I remember it as the way it was presented, but I do agree it could be spaced apart more.
  12. Sith-I-5 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 6
    I agree with Hammer on the Mary Sue issue.

    Newbies aren't born here like clones dropping out of a vat, there can be quite a previous-to-RPF investment in characters that the player has fun with, without even being aware of a Mary Sue issue.

    Essentially telling a player, "don't have fun; do it this way" has a high risk of alienating them.
  13. DarthXan318 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 6
    Not to harp on it or anything, but I still think the million-dollar question has yet to be properly answered: what do we want newbies to get out of the Adoptions program?

    Do we want them to just learn the contents of the New Players Start Here sticky?

    Do we want them to ultimately be contenders for Best RPer?

    Do we want to just insist on the basics, and leave the rest up to each Adopter/Adoptee pair to decide?

    Or something else?
  14. Saintheart Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    I think insist on the basics, then leave the rest up to the Adopter/Adoptee. It's not like we can realistically provide adopters with a comprehensive course curriculum to run for their adoptees. My personal vision of the Adoption Program is that once an adoptee has gone through it, they know: the basics of the forum; the importance of maturity; the overall state of the community here; and thinking more than five minutes before they post up new RPGs of their own.
  15. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 6
    ...isn't bi-weekly once every two weeks?

    Sorry, my bad. When I brought that up, I meant to say that it would be good to have an update every two weeks. This is why pencils have erasers; Saintheart nailed down what I meant to say in terms of regularity.

    Give 'em the skills they need to fend for themselves and let them grow from there.
  16. DarthXan318 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 6
    Bi-weekly can mean either every two weeks or twice a week, apparently. It's one of those things. :p

    In that case, I think we can do away with most of the things on the checklist... or rather we can just use the Basic Training list in the sticky as our checklist of sorts...? And then have an Adoptions game for them to fool around and stuff and prove that they actually know stuff.

    Actually, we could incorporate tournaments/quizzes into the Adoptions game and play them out IC, too. A minigame like Capture the Flag, say, where everyone plays as a clone trooper on a training mission (teams can be adopter/adoptee pairs, or randomly drawn from however many are interested, or whatever), or puzzle hunts, or a plain ol' knockout lightsaber tournament. Winner gets the ... well, e-notoriety of winning an Adoptions minigame, and everyone learns something. Hopefully.

    (As an aside, I was looking through the old Adoptions game, and what strikes me is the assumption that people who are new and are there to learn to RP should play students who are learning as well. IMHO, that ... doesn't necessarily follow.)


    Or are we thinking along the lines of OOC tournaments/quizzes?
  17. rhianna10 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2008
    Hi all Im up for RP and adoption...please let me know if theres a place for me to start.

    Cheers!

    Rhi
  18. Mitth_Fisto Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 6
    Monthly I thinks sounds best, time scheduling isn't something newbies (from personal experience) tend to have down, plus life can sideline anyone. (I know I'm just repeating the sentiments so far)

    As for minigames, it sounds like a good idea. I know I participated in a game with LSA done by Ktala help him be able to see how I do progressively and so I could better learn through his example. In the end though our characters had met only once in passing, and both were on equal footing (well not exactly, my characters species was taller:p). So we weren't relegated into Master/Apprentice type roles ingame, which made me a newbie trying to learn more receptive to taking his points because I knew he knew exactly what was happening. Also, I could take direct pointers from his postings and see first hand how to do things, especially when one recieves a first draft of a post in PM and then gets to see the revised version in game helps show how taking the time really gets the point across that taking time drastically changes the quality.
  19. rhianna10 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2008
    I would just like to say for the record I am NOT a newbie. I have been RP'ing for almost 5 years. It doesnt take me long to catch on. Just give us (the ones you dont know-a chance)

    Rhi
  20. DarthXan318 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 6
    Well, that's what we're in the process of discussing: what exactly this Adoptions program is going to be, exactly. We don't really have one at the moment, or at least, it's kind of dead. :p

    That's an intriguing idea. [face_thinking] Showing newbies the revisions, I mean... that's something that hasn't been covered in any of our articles that I know of.
  21. Mikaboshi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 6
    When I started RPing here I had about 15 years experience in roleplaying (AD&D, Shadowrun, SW), but doing it online is a bit different IMHO.

    I still considered myself a newbie when I started here regardless of the experience, after all rolling dice is a lot different to what happens in the RPF.
  22. Kev-Mas_Colcha Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2002
    star 5
    However, the dice rolling games do help.
  23. Imperial_Hammer Manager Emeritus: RPFs

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    star 5
    Lets put the convo back on the rails...

    What else is there to cover?

    - Position of an Adoptions Leader
    - Hosting of an Adoptions Game
    - Teaching of the RPing Essentials

    What of reformatting the requirements for adopter? Is there any change needed there? Do we need to look about making us better Adopters?

    -I_H
  24. DarthXan318 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 6
    What are the current requirements?

    Something like 3-6 months and/or 100 (or some other triple-digit amount) posts across the RPFs, maybe?
  25. Mitth_Fisto Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 6
    Leave it at about six months or take two off for good Rping:p

    One hundred I believe is the current number attributed to the role in the RPFs, although I was wondering if there might be some way to more easily calculate this than simply having a potential 'Master' go and tally up his post history? Possibly a cheat sheet sort of way to get a rough estimate without the research.
Moderators: Penguinator, Ramza