1. Oh hai Guest!

    Welcome to the RPF!

Reference The RPF Policies, Programs, and Events Thread - Now Disc.: New User Welcomes

Discussion in 'Role Playing Resource' started by Imperial_Hammer, Aug 24, 2008.

Moderators: Penguinator, Ramza
  1. DarkLordoftheFins Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2007
    star 4
    What we need is a short and comprehensive welcome thread, where:

    a. a short text makes them feel welcome and free to experiment

    b. they get the most basic info about us and what we do here

    c. they can ask questions

    d. people can offer them assistance and advertise games and so on . . .

    e. we can provide links to ressources that go deeper into topic in case that is what they wanna read (later on usually)

    Wehave none of those.

    They get here to play and playing is quite easy. They are no children, no fools and no "n00bs", they are people who wanna join us on the adventures we have here. Let´s assume they can write, they understand how things get done and they´ll find their butt with their hands until they proof us otherwise and if so . . . do you think any of those "problem-cases" get solved by those long texts we write for them? What we need is not to teach them anything, we need to make it an attractive thing to come forth and talk to us.

    My 0,02 cents
    Last edited by DarkLordoftheFins, Oct 15, 2012
  2. Imperial_Hammer Manager Emeritus: RPFs

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    star 5
    Hmmm...

    This is an interesting topic of conversation.

    At the time, Saint and I worked on those welcome stickies, our main point of interest was that they be complete and comprehensive. This is one reason why they are so long. This is also the reason why they they cover the most simple basics, from structure to spelling and whatnot. It was not so much about talking down to them, as it was about making a place where everyone everywhere can go and get educated. For the simple stuff, people would skip over it. Hence Saint's partition into "Beginners", "Intermediate", and "Advance" sections. Those who considered themselves intermediate would start there.

    That being said, I can see where Sirak, Fins, et al. are coming from. Most people read linearly, and a patronizing tone can leave a bad taste in people's mouths. Even those advanced players, when seeing self-righteous language, may presume the worst about what are our unarguably good intentions.

    The trick is finding a middle ground that blends a welcoming spirit with a concern for quality. It is important that there be both. Too welcoming, and the special thing we offer (that is, high quality) gets lost. Too restrictive, and we will have no one to play with us and the community will languish and stagnate.

    There is no reason why we cannot keep Saint's helpful work, while addressing the concerns of Fins/Sirak/Draco/etc.

    Why not have our sticky situation look something like this:

    RPF
    The Rules: The Rules is the No-Nonsense element of the forum information. This can be marked with a read-me first designation. Within it, the genre tag discussion can be inserted, as well as any remnants from the NSWRPF infrastructure.

    The Welcome Thread: The thread under discussion by Fins above. Its a splash page for new RPers, a welcoming environment, and a high-tolerance zone for those that do not know what they are doing.

    RPR:
    The RPF Community Center: Might be useful to continue its existence. Its function as a hall of records and link thread is useful. Could use an overhaul to v4.0, as many of its initial links are outdated

    The RPF FAQ: An interesting thread with a number of different possibilities going forward. It could stay as it is. It could be folded into the RPF Community Center. It could be folded into the new rules (esp. things like the banned word list).

    The Essential Guide to RPing (New): Here we can put Saint's pages. I am very against losing any piece of reference, as all advice is good advice. Putting the piece in a separate but optional thread will preserve it for people who wish it, and for future generations, while not making it the first or most important thing new users see. It can be requested or pointed to in the welcome thread, but not insisted upon.

    The Summa / The Encyclopedia / Whatever (New): In fact, I am so against losing the advice of others that a long time ago, I compiled a comprehensive word document of all the instructional articles written in the RPF. When NP and LSA first created the RPR, they compiled a series of advice threads. They intended it to be more a library than the active community it is today. I believe those original threads are now deep down in the RPR archives (like circa 2007!).

    But I have them all compiled in an awesome 99 page, single space, 47k word document. Should the powers that be will it, I would be happy to make it user friendly and post it.

    Deleted:
    Announcement Thread(s): This was a work-around on the IGN boards for the announcement features that now come standard in Xenoforo. The move has made these threads useless.

    Genre Tag Thread: Can be folded into a unified rules thread

    Non-SW Rules and Announcement Threads: Can be folded into a unified rules thread.

    The RPR Index Thread: While a good idea, this thread seems to be more work than the Mods can provide. It might be best just to let this idea just slip aside.

    ---------------------

    In short, consolidate in RPF and use the RPR for its full potential as a resource. RPF stickies should be streamlined and welcoming, RPR stickies can be wonkish and useful. Those wishing a welcoming environment can have it in the more popular and higher trafficed RPF. those worried about quality loss and good writing can have it in RPR, where people would expect that sort of thing anyway.

    Thats my suggestion at least!

    Thanks for reading!
    -I_H
    Last edited by Imperial_Hammer, Oct 15, 2012
  3. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 6
    Well, to be fair, it's not like we can successfully moderate posts in other languages. And while I for one certainly appreciate good grammar, I'm not expecting everyone to live up to my standards for it. That said, there are people who, regardless of language, are utterly incomprehensible, and these posts are directed at them, as Xani mentioned.

    With all that in mind, I've already committed myself to redoing these stickies, as I previously mentioned. All points are valid and have been heard on that front. :)
  4. SirakRomar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2007
    star 4
    Thing is, they are comprehensive if you read them out of interest, but if it is the "first contact" post it feels really a bit patronizing. But anyway, let's have Peng revise them and see.
  5. Lukes_Apprentice Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2008
    star 3
    I like all these ideas. I like them a lot. :D However, I believe that we should discuss a training program were people can apply what they have learned from all advice and accumulated knowledge the moderators and community believe is relevant for knowing how to RP. However, as I have learned time and time again the devil is always in the details of doing what you learn. So we should have a training thread with a basic RP that anyone can join and have fun doing what they have learned with guest GM's and Role player giving advice if they request it or it looks like they need it. I would also like to see a similar boot camp approach to being a GM and writing RPG's in a convincing manner taught by GMs past or present. This is not a revolutionary idea but I believe that it would increase the number of people that know how to RP and how to GM effectively and that in my humble opinion will increase the fun we have.
  6. Imperial_Hammer Manager Emeritus: RPFs

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    star 5
    Hello L_A!

    Nice idea. It is indeed an old and much hallowed goal to have a functional training RPG around here. Its one of those things that sounds good in theory, but is very very difficult to do in practice.

    Should this austere body decide to go down this route, might I recommend these as reading materials. Alas, their first posts are still chopped up. But you do get the idea for how they were run.

    NaboosPrincess's The Danger Room (2006)
    NaboosPrincess et. al's Ipsen's Force Academy (2006)
    LightsideApprentice's Diamond Institution: A Preparatory School for Role Playing Excellence (2006)
    I-5 and Ktala's The Academy (2010)

    There were interesting and very different ideas in this group! The Danger Room decided to do very quick monthly minigames. Ipsen's did a more traditional long-length class base structure. The Diamond Institution was very exclusive and was more one on one. And the Academy was a normal style game, just in another board. Of them, the Danger Room did the best with 283 posts.

    A good new adoptions game should take lessons from these noble attempts. :)

    -I_H
    Saintheart likes this.
  7. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    The irony is palpable, mostly because this is such a not-revolutionary idea that it's been considered or tried before around here, but died out nonetheless. I don't know why exactly that is, why we've got so few people who are willing to actually set aside the time and teach others. I suspect it's because of creativity and time-restrictedness; if you're already on a short time budget running your own players and games, you're less likely to be able to spare the time to walk people through the basics. The last proper-ish 'training program' I can think of was Lightside_Apprentice's "Diamond Academy" which might still be somewhere deep in the RPR archives -- it predates your time here, L_A, unless you've been lurking or had a very convincing sock for a good five years or so ;)

    Having said that: Let's presume for a moment that I have completely taken leave of my senses and decided to consider maybe, perhaps, building a training RPG in the mode you describe. What sort of things would we want people to be trained in? What would you want an RPGer to know, understand, etc? What would be the sort of RPG that anyone can join and have fun in?

    On boot camping GMs -- oh, boy, that's a lot tougher. If writing and running a RPG were a process more amenable to direct, quick communication, if it weren't such an inherently creative act, I could see it working. But my query is: what's wrong with the Game Group that does not facilitate these needs at the moment? You get solid peer review there, and as with Skywalker T-65's recent RPG, you also can get development and discussion. What's missing from the RPR -- in the peer review from the Games Group and from materials contained in the RPR's resources -- that needs to be further explained to GMs? Would direct handholding actually help GMs, or would it be seen as patronising? What would you be trying to achieve with this?

    EDIT: The Hammer has a katana's edge to it, because I have been ninja'd.
    Last edited by Saintheart, Nov 8, 2012
    Imperial_Hammer likes this.
  8. SirakRomar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2007
    star 4
    I appreciate the idea, but I believe it is counter-produktive. New people dont need training. They Need Games. Look at The Forever War, do those who play there a training? They needed a post or two and then they were in.
    Penguinator likes this.
  9. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 6
    Preachin' to the choir!
  10. Lukes_Apprentice Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2008
    star 3
    That could be one way of looking at things, but what I'm trying to do is approach the topic like someone who is interested in RP, but is not quite sure if they want to join a running game or how to RP. I agree that most of us here have some experience in the field of RP and therefore cannot believe that anyone would be shy about such a thing. I would also like to point out the last time an RPG around here brought in more then the normal crowd was the summer camp RPG and the forever war. Otherwise, the community seems to remain the same and I consider that to be a bad thing because sooner or later people have to move on and we will not have new people join the fray. So in short, I don't view the idea of a training RP as counter productive and believe it would increase the number of people in the RP board.
  11. HanSolo29 Manager Emeritus + Official Star Wars Artist

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2001
    star 6
    Going from personal experience, I didn't need a training game to get started. Going by Sirak's example, I jumped right into the fray and learned the ropes as I went along. Sure, my early games were pretty ugly in terms of quality, but that's to be expected when you're new. The best learning tool anyone can have is to learn through experience. I don't think catering to newbies and holding their hands is the right route to take. You're doing them more of a disservice than providing them with help.

    As for getting in new blood, training games won't draw them in. That's not the issue. If you want to get new people into the forums, you'll need something else to outreach to them. And again, this goes back to advertising or placing something in the Welcome forum to show people that we do indeed exist. Although, with the announcement of new Star Wars films on the horizon, I think our little corner of the forums will start to see some new faces.
  12. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 6
    I've gotten a few PMs from users wanting to jump right in.

    And no one likes training games.
  13. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    All right, then, can we talk about advertising or putting something in WNU as suggested? I'm willing to take the lead on this, mostly because I've got the time and I want our little corner to grow, but are we basically saying we want someone sort of 'on station' in WNU to take queries, make the place look exciting, lie market the joint to new people?

    I personally think a thread that's constantly re-upped gets more reading than a sticky does, but if other people reckon otherwise, I'm happy to be proven wrong. I'll take suggestions from people and so on if anyone's got any ideas on this front.
    Penguinator likes this.
  14. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    An Episode VII game (or EU prequel?) would do wonders for newbie attention.
  15. SirakRomar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2007
    star 4
  16. Lukes_Apprentice Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2008
    star 3
    Sounds good to me I already suggested such a thing though slightly different so "Just do it." [face_batting][face_dancing]
  17. DarkLordoftheFins Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2007
    star 4
    We just need any accessible game, I´d say. That´s all we really need when (if) this site get´s back the famous SW attention. But an Episode VII game might certainly work. We can make it an obligation of the winner of the Episode VII contest to run his game, if he wins :p
  18. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    That was my plan, anyway :p
  19. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 6
    You mean kind of like that contest we have going on? :p
  20. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    I'm assuming you're not talking about running a RPG in WNU, are you? I had more in mind someone going into WNU and posting up a sort of "interesting crap happening in the RPF" and then sticking around to tend it there...?
    Penguinator likes this.
  21. Sir_Draco Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2007
    star 4
    The thing is, having accessible games and then wait for loads of users to arrive might do the trick. If the users don´t come we still might have fun doing those games. But I can only repeat what was said a hundred times, a real mainstream, well-told game might do miracles to the boards. Something easy to join, big enough to draw attention and well-GMed to make people hungry.

    And yeah, next to other things an Episode VII game could do the trick. BTW, lovely OPs we got there. But the deadline is tomorrow is it? I won´t get mine done til then, I am afraid.
  22. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2008
    star 7
    Deadline's actually not until the 19th on the US West Coast - 7 PM on the 19th, at that. So more like 3 days.
    Last edited by Ramza, Nov 16, 2012
  23. Sir_Draco Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2007
    star 4
    Then I shall try and get it in on German Sunday! I guess mine will fall out of the pattern a bit . . .
  24. HanSolo29 Manager Emeritus + Official Star Wars Artist

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2001
    star 6
    I agree that an Episode VII game would be a good way to bring in the newbies.

    Then again, maybe I'm biased because I really want one to start up. :p
  25. Mitth_Fisto Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 6
    Of course, none of use know who you would want to be :p
Moderators: Penguinator, Ramza