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Reference The RPF Rules Discussion - Now Discussing: Writing Violence

Discussion in 'Role Playing Resource' started by Imperial_Hammer, Apr 14, 2008.

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  1. Reynar_Tedros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2006
    star 6
    Agreed.
  2. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    Endure, and in enduring, grow strong.

    Face it, if you're the kind of person who gets easily discouraged just because someone said something you don't like about your game, then you're also probably the kind of person who will wind up closing your game because you can't commit to it.

    Let's play "Choose Your Own Adventure"!

    Someone has made a negative statement about your game/skill. Think over what has been said...

    1. Is it a valid critique? If "yes", go to 2. If "no", go to 5.
    2. Do you care? If "yes", go to 3. If "no", go to 4.
    3. Can you change anything about it? If "yes", go to 7. If "no", go to 8.
    4. Are the players bothered by the chatter? If "yes", go to 6. If "no", go to 8.
    5. Has this person been consistently useless in the past? If "yes", go to 6. If "no", go to 8.
    6. Does this person respond to civil conversation? If "yes", go to 9. If "no", go to 0.
    7. Improve yourself
    8. Walk it off
    9. Talk it out
    0. Get a mod

    Criticism builds character. If you grow content, you'll never improve. If you quit you'll never improve. If you bend to everyone, you'll never be happy.

    If they're not making negative statements about your game and the signal-to-noise-ratio isn't ludicrously low (as in, more random chatter than actual posts, or people playing MST3K in the middle of the game) and your players aren't bothered by it, then you really have nothing to complain about. Though if you're getting nothing but the highest praise, you may want to reassess things to make sure you haven't picked up some sycophants. Nothing will slow you faster than sycophants.

    Personally, I enjoy comments from the peanut gallery provided they're not interrupting anything important or jumping on my players. I am well aware that I am no where near the level of skill I wish to be, and feedback is essential for refining myself. Aside from that, to me comm chatter has always been an indication of a sense of community, as well as the fact that people who aren't in the game are taking an active interest in it, which means you must be doing something interesting (even if it is just being an incredibly engrossing train wreck).

    Seriously, how is "publicly throwing the fact that the game is poorly made right in the GMs face" a bad thing? If it's broken, fix it.
  3. NaboosPrincess Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 6
    There's a time and place for everything. If you have comments for the GM, send a PM. I think it's disrespectful of the other players' time to make them wade through OOC comments criticizing the game. Threads are for playing, and PMs are a great tool for any behind-the-scenes work that might be needed.
  4. PRENNTACULAR VIP

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2005
    star 6
    While I agree with the others concerning the use of PMs over the actual game thread for critique etc., I don't think we want to make a rule over this. To me, it's the GMs discretion, and at times it can be valuable. I think that we need to get in the practice of the GM stating clearly in their first post whether they'd like their thread to be "clean" and not have such remarks/posts made, or if they're okay with it, and then have mod enforcement come off of that, rather than a blanket rule that affects everybody, some of whom don't mind it.
  5. Imperial_Hammer Manager Emeritus: RPFs

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    star 5
    Alrighty...

    Tomorrow the Rules Discussion ends, and I'll begin work on the final wordings of the new changes.

    Thanks to everyone here for their great input on these issues. I'm thinking we'll make the right changes here because of them. :)

    -I_H
  6. Imperial_Hammer Manager Emeritus: RPFs

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    star 5
    Moving the convo about RPF Awards rules here...

    As promised, my prior post...

    Personally, I am in the camp with Peng. and Nemisis. Popularity is generally a sign that you're doing something right. I really doubt there are bribes going on for undeserving people/games. And if there are, well, tell me where to get in on some of that action, cause I could use the moolah. :p

    Aaaaaaas to some sort of rule about minimum age of a game, I'm torn. On one hand, its absolutely correct that you can't gauge the success of a game that has been launched a few days ago. On the other hand, building up a hype is an art in itself. Pllluuuuusssss, remember this is all through popular acclaim. No one wins anything without some mass of users saying so. I'm inclined to say that if a game is new, then don't vote for it to win! And if people do, then it must have something going for it.

    The standard response to this will be something to the effect of "People are dumb" and "The system gives power to the mindless mob," and to this I would response, "Perhaps, but why should this be corrected? Aren't we trying to be as democratic as possible? Is it really our jobs to fix this?"

    Thirdly, as to the launch of The Shattered Galaxy, it is a happy coincidence, although I am amused that folks could entertain otherwise. Summer awards have always been in July, and they have no set date. I assure you I have no partisanship towards that game... I'm not even playing or GMing in it. And even if I did have some secret favoritism, my vote is not going to be a king-maker anyhow.

    Additionally, RPF Mods have always had the authority to green-light multi-thread games. Usually though, there needs to be some sort of proof that its going to be as big so as to require it. For example, TSG has a ton of EUCers in it, and before authorization, I had its GM give me a list of interested players. He managed to demonstrate that over 30 players were interested in his forum alone. Hence, Saintheart and I allotted the game 3 threads to work in.

    -I_H/>
  7. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    Ah, good, it's been added here. :D

    Aaaaaaas to some sort of rule about minimum age of a game, I'm torn. On one hand, its absolutely correct that you can't gauge the success of a game that has been launched a few days ago. On the other hand, building up a hype is an art in itself. Pllluuuuusssss, remember this is all through popular acclaim. No one wins anything without some mass of users saying so. I'm inclined to say that if a game is new, then don't vote for it to win! And if people do, then it must have something going for it.

    The standard response to this will be something to the effect of "People are dumb" and "The system gives power to the mindless mob," and to this I would response, "Perhaps, but why should this be corrected? Aren't we trying to be as democratic as possible? Is it really our jobs to fix this?"


    Throwing my own personal viewpoint out there, I must say personally I have a somewhat different view on this point. Let me say at the start that for the most part I do agree with the 'Market Metaphor', which fundamentally says that good games prosper and are popular because they're well-made and well-maintained. And for that reason we have the "Best Game" category; that is an indication of both popularity and prosperity in general.

    But I do have to admit I find it a little ... embarrassing to have games consistently taking out "Best New Game" and "Best Game". It suggests and supports (IMHHHO) a viewpoint that our crowd is the ADD generation: if it ain't new and cool, it's not worthy of recognition. This is not to say this always happens. But I do think some distinction is warranted between these two categories.

    I also have to respectfully say that whilst, yes, building up a hype and building pre-launch support for a game is necessary and an art in itself, I believe it has no part in a voter's decision as to which is the Best Game in the forums. Personally, I'm in this to actively discourage situations where a game is hyped and then very badly maintained, or even abandoned by its GM ... and the situation has happened in recent history here.

    On the democratic issue -- I would say as far as the awards are concerned we're a limited democracy, and the Awards are supposed to recognise good games as well as popular ones. To take a very bad analogy, the Academy Awards don't give out prizes for "Highest Grossing Movie". The spirit of the awards is ultimately about outstanding examples of filmmaking and acting. As I say, it's a bad analogy because we don't have the member base of the Academy (the totality of most Hollywood actors, directors and filmmakers) and the Academy Awards are sometimes subverted for the purpose of promoting a picture, but I think we can take away something of that spirit and incorporate it into these awards in a very limited way.

    The upshot of all that? I think "Best New Game" does need some sort of enforced distinction from "Best Game", whether it be "No nomination for Best Game if the post count is less than 100" or something similar.

    And incidentally: this is not me calling out Hammer or anything like that; it's just my personal view. :D
  8. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    In the past, however, I've found that "new" was generally easy to discern. We all sort of picked up on what could or could not be nominated. Is there any real reason why this is a problem now?
  9. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    Because this is the second season that I've seen games get nominated almost as soon as they're out of the gate. It may just be me, but in the totally hypothetical event that I won "Best New RPG" a few days in, it wouldn't feel like I had actually earned it by virtue of skill or craft, merely by virtue of having the best shiny new attraction. I'd at least want to keep my game off the block until I had actually done something I felt was interesting and impressive enough to merit an award.
  10. Imperial_Hammer Manager Emeritus: RPFs

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    star 5
    I'm happy to announce that I got off my lazy butt tonight and wrote up the final draft for the rules.

    They're currently in Saintheart's inbox...

    So first we'll talk about em, make changes and work a draft we both feel comfortable with....

    Then, barring an objection from him, we'll toss it to you guys for any last minute proofreading/ideas/complaining...

    If you alls have anything we think should be put in, we will...

    And then we'll implement!

    I suspect we should have the new rules up and in operation two weeks from now at the latest.

    So yah, there you go. :)

    -I_H
  11. Imperial_Hammer Manager Emeritus: RPFs

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    star 5
    Alright then! The rules are cleared by both mods, and here are their final drafts, to be enacted in a few days barring any last minute objections or critiques that are smart and/or worthwhile.

    (Removed)
    Added

    Regarding Games Per Forum

    Text of the Rule is this...

    5) Authorisation

    All Role Playing in keeping with the Non-Star Wars Universe is freely allowed, and games may be created and posted within this forum at the discretion of the author. No authorisation is required. Any Star Wars cross-overs, however, will require Moderator approval.

    Please note that games are limited to two threads per author (one thread, per author, per forum). This is a concrete rule and is not negotiable. This rule is made to try and discourage flooding of the forums, and to allow for the whole community to be involved in RPG creation and play. Hopefully people will realise the responsibility inherent in starting a game and we will see fewer games started and dumped by GMs. The 'punishment' for starting a second game will start with a warning, followed by a twenty-four hour ban, which may double for every infraction after that. If you wish to end your current thread and open a new one, PM the RPF moderator, Imperial_Hammer, to lock your current thread.

    The Consecutive Winners in the RPF Awards Rule

    Text of the Rule is this...

    "Any RPG that wins an award becomes ineligible for next season's awards, to ensure fairness and variety. Any players who win awards will be ineligible until the next year."

    *** No Change ***


    The NSWRPF Franchise Rule

    Text of the rule is...

    (6) Redundancy

    Only one RPG per franchise (Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, etc.) is allowed at a time. Any issues or questions in this regard can be directed to the forum Moderator(s). Be aware that our intention is to prevent redundancy and promote creativity, not to limit your imaginations or to prevent fair chance for all members, regardless of registration dates and/or skill and experience.

    Similarly, only two RPGs per genre will be accepted. That is, two broadly Fantasy-based games, two Historical based games, etc. Again, please seek the Moderator(s) with any issues you might have.)

    Sock Rules

    *Pulled until I get the answer for a question I PMed to the Admins*


    Mods and the RPF Awards

    Moderators are allowed to win Awards, but their prize will be limited to recognition alone. When a moderator places in the Best GM/RPer category, the top three contenders will be recognized, with the two non-mods getting colors. Two non-moderator users are guaranteed colors for every awards season.

    Out of Game Comments

    Everyone has a right to launch their games uninterrupted by comments from players not within their games. All players in the RPF are advised to state within their games whether Out-Of-Game (OOG) comments are or are not allowed. For players not specifying a preference, it will be assumed that their silence is consent. Punishment for violating an restriction on OOGs will be an immediate ban, to be doubled with each offense.

    "Best New RPG Issue"

    Text of the Rule:

    New RPGs are defined as any active game less than three (3) months old and have over 100 posts at the time of nomination. RPGs must be active (no locked threads may be nominated)./>/>/>/>/>/>/>
  12. Rilwen_Shadowflame Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2005
    star 6
    So, the 'silence as consent' for OOCs means that if the GM prohibits them, they are a no, but if they say nothing on it it's considered a yes? Just trying to get that clear in my head.

    It's just because sometimes OOCs can seem fairly necessary, like:
    "OOC: Sithyperson is away, and has placed me in charge of controlling her character for the duration." If only to ensure that people are clear on what is going on.
  13. DarthXan318 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 6
    The only problem I have with the 'silent is consent' rule is that the people who are most likely to make less-than-stellar RPGs are newbies who aren't likely to read the rules anyway. If they're the ones we're trying to protect, shouldn't we have it the other way round - silence means no OOGs?
  14. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    Xan, Rilwen: Basically it means silence is consent to the rule -- that is, you have to specifically say that OOGs are welcome or allowed. If the RPG is silent on the subject, it is assumed that you do not want OOGs about the game. *makes note to clarify on final version...*
  15. Imperial_Hammer Manager Emeritus: RPFs

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    star 5
    *Scratches head*

    Well actually, Rilwen and Xan were reading it correctly. It was intended to be that its open to OOGs unless specified otherwise. Reading over the thread, I thought Prenn's post when he said:

    was a good thing. The rule I wrote was more to facilitate this practice as opposed to creating a strong mandate like Saint and I were first considering.

    Hoooooowevvvvveeeerrrr

    You're right Xan, that its the newer users that need the protection of this more than anyone.

    One side of me says let them learn the hard way and that will teach them to read the rules.

    And another side of me replies that one bad instance might be enough to turn them off of RPing for good

    Soooo I dunno....

    What do you alls think? Strong mandate or weaker norm creator?

    -I_H
  16. darth_nemisis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2004
    star 6
    I am liking what I see, very nice job fellas.

    This silence is consent thing...I am not sure which way I favor. I would say that silence is not consent would be better for the newer members. But, at the same time, I think it just seems more fair that silence means that they can do it.

    Perhaps we can just train everyone to look down upon it, so that they won't want to do it. And then we won't have this problem. :p
  17. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    Ergh, I got it wrong. Serves me right for posting too late at night like that... :D

    For my part, I actually am in support of the idea that if the GM says "No OOC", it is backed up with mod enforcement by editing or (if necessary, and hopefully not) banning. As it is we offer this service in any event. But otherwise, if the GM is silent, the presumption is that OOC is permitted. The light approach, in other words.

    I'm happy to make some changes to the GM FAQ to reflect this to try and remind new GMs of this choice if needs be.
  18. Imperial_Hammer Manager Emeritus: RPFs

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    star 5
    We should be careful here on the distinction b/w OOC (Out of Character) and OOG (Out of Game) posts...

    OOC should always be permitted in my book, unless otherwise stated by the GM.

    As to OOGs, well, we can either do them the same way (Prenn's method) or flip it, making them prohibited unless allowed by the GM (Xan's method).

    Still thinkin' about this one.

    -I_H
  19. NickLitYouAFlame Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2007
    star 5
    The Consecutive Winners in the RPF Awards Rule

    Text of the Rule is this...

    "Any RPG that wins an award becomes ineligible for next season's awards, to ensure fairness and variety. Any players who win awards will be ineligible until the next year."

    *** No Change ***



    Booooooooo, to this rule.
  20. Hammurabi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2007
    star 4
    Don't the new awards rules make it possible for a game to never be eligible for the New RP category? I mean, what if a game launches right before Awards. It's ineligible for the current one, and ineligible for all future ones in the New RP category.

    And it's pretty tough to determine quality that early anyway. Why not extend the deadline to six months?
  21. Rilwen_Shadowflame Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2005
    star 6
    I find myself somewhat unclear on the difference. OOC posts would be out of character, yet still related to the game, yes? And OOG would be more social posts? Any clearer definitions?
  22. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    OOC I would posit is the flipside to the IC post -- where you're discussing events in-game, or characters, or other game-related matters.

    OOG I would guess can be defined as stuff that's completely unrelated to the game: "PM sent!" or "Dude this game sux0rz the dux0rz!" or "So, how 'bout them Chargers"?"

    (In particular the "PM/CS sent" message is utterly redundant. If the GM has logged into his account, he knows a PM has been sent because the board system ever so kindly notifies him that it's there.)
  23. Imperial_Hammer Manager Emeritus: RPFs

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    star 5
    I've talked it over with Saint and we can back this change. Unless some other user has some insight as to why we shouldn't allow that extension?

    -I_H
  24. LadyZaraMarta Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2004
    star 5
    Some games do not last 6 months.

    Why instead of time, the number of posts? For example: 200 In Character posts for a game to qualify?

    There should be no problem for a well run game, to rack up 200 in no time. It will prove the quality of the game and the enthusiasm of the players.
  25. Mikaboshi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 6
    Quantity does not = quality IMO.

    In regards to an RPG not being able to last 6 months. We have awards every 3 months give or take a few weeks. If a game can't make it to the next RPF awards, odds are it isn't really deserving of the best new RPG anyway.

    I personally like the little change made there. It ensures that some new game that has 50 posts and is nothing but hype can't win, but also gives time for the games who weren't eligible in 1 awards session a chance to make it into the next one.
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