PT The rule of two was a bad idea

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Sitara, Dec 22, 2012.

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  1. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

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    There's a big difference between not fearing a building blowing up and realizing that a bunch of Sith apprentices could gang up and kill you. It's quite simple, with an army the Jedi would become aware of the Sith and would start hunting them down which they did a thousand years before TPM. But with only two they can stay in the shadows and infiltrate the Republic thus destroying it from the inside. They can catch the Jedi in the perfect trap. When the Sith were numerous they failed but when they were only two they succeeded so I don't see how it can be called a bad idea.
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  2. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    no, no different, only different in your mind. Or are you going to elaborate why they are different when both = death?

    and if the Sith are really that worried that the Jedi will beat them then this suggests 2 things

    1) it goes against their arrogant nature of being in control and the best

    2) if they think they will be defeated by the Jedi wouldn't any logical person think, oh, well i'm on the wrong side here, hmmm, maybe the dark side isn't more powerful then,
    Last edited by Sistros, Dec 22, 2012
  3. DarthRelaxus Chosen One

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    Hitler didn't believe he was evil.
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  4. Sistros Force Ghost

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    ....

    ok, the next random trivia point

    "we actually have 7 senses, not five"

    seriously though, what?
  5. DarthRelaxus Chosen One

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    Maybe it was poorly stated. What I meant was totalitarian rulers don't perceive themselves as evil or on the wrong side.
  6. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

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    Because one is a certainty and the other is only a possibility. The Sith can't live in fear of buildings exploding everywhere they go but they certainly can and should be wary about their scheming apprentices ganging up and destroying them. With only one apprentice it is a fair fight and whoever comes out on top deserves to be the master.

    Also I never said that the Sith were afraid of the Jedi only that when they had an army they were defeated. If one approach fails you usual try a different approach because as Einstein says the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. The Sith tried a different approach and they won. Again I don't see how the Rule of Two can be called a bad idea when they achieved their goals and the Jedi were wiped out.
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  7. Sistros Force Ghost

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    well I agree there,

    but the Sith differ in that they want power, it's all they ever go on about

    "not for a sith"

    "they will be no match for you"

    "i've become more powerful than any Jedi, even you"

    "soon i'll have a new apprentice, one far younger and more powerful"

    "now you will experiance the full power of the darkside"

    they think they are more powerful than the Jedi.
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  8. Sistros Force Ghost

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    Chiznuk: Because one is a certainty and the other is only a possibility. The Sith can't live in fear of buildings exploding everywhere they go but they certainly can and should be wary about their scheming apprentices ganging up and destroying them. With only one apprentice it is a fair fight and whoever comes out on top deserves to be the master.
    ----------

    the building thing was just one scenario out of many, if there are 2 of somthing the more likely it is to become extinct, than if there were thousands

    ------------

    Chiznuk said : The Sith tried a different approach and they won. Again I don't see how the Rule of Two can be called a bad idea when they achieved their goals and the Jedi were wiped out.

    ---

    and the whole point of the prophecy was the chosen one to destroy the sith (or thought to be) which happened, the Jedi got renewed by Luke Skywalker

    and 2 hooded sith didn't do this , an army of white soldiers destroyed the Jedi order (most of it)
  9. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

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    That's dealing with other force users. Predicting future becomes harder this way.
  10. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

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    No doubt they felt they were stronger than the Jedi but they were also smart and knew not to take on the Jedi at their peak. The Sith adapted while the Jedi became arrogant and stagnant. The only thing the Sith had to do was wait in the shadows and allow the Jedi to weaken themselves then pounce when they got the chance. I love how Lucas showed that it was really the Jedi that were the engineers of their own downfall.
  11. DarthRelaxus Chosen One

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    The army was created to destroy the Jedi and help the Sith take control of the galaxy. The plan (nearly) worked because it was (for two decades) successful.
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  12. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

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    The clones were built for the sole purpose of distracting the Jedi and the Republic as the Sith Master (Darth Sidious) accumulated dictatorial powers. And the Sith apprentice (Darth Vader) was the one who led the clones against the Jedi Temple.

    You're right about the Chosen One and that was Palpatine's downfall. His arrogance blinded him to the danger of having Anakin as his apprentice. I don't think however that he believed in the prophecy and I'm sure he got a sick pleasure in turning the Jedi savior to the dark side.
    Last edited by Darth Chiznuk, Dec 22, 2012
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  13. Sistros Force Ghost

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    Jul 24, 2010
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    but the view expressed here is that two sith single (or is that double) handedly destroyed thousands of Jedi, this isn't so, doesn't take a force sensitive to order a billion clones and encode data with an order to kill Jedi,

    but we are going around in circles :p

    i think it's stupid andstated my reasons why.
  14. burrisjedimaster1 Force Ghost

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    Jul 31, 2002
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    The rule of two is a good concept but gives film makers less matterial to work with. Now with that said I dont want to see an army of Jedi or Sith. If their ever was a reason for the rule of two I would like it explained in the new films.
  15. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

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    I don't think it's that high of a possibility that the Sith could become extinct in any way other than the Jedi wiping them out. Their powers of perception can warn them of any normal dangers. Sure there were probably close calls but I'm sure a Sith Lord is adept at getting out of these instances that would likely kill a normal being. There is always risks in every thing you do but it doesn't stop people from doing it. And I'm certain that the Sith of Bane's line saw it as their destiny to destroy the Jedi and thus would have no fear of being destroyed before they achieved this.
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  16. Sistros Force Ghost

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    well even so,

    if you believe that fair enough,

    I just call it extreme luck nothing happened to both master and apprentice along the way,

    it works for you but not for me I guess.

    anyway, good debate
    Last edited by Sistros, Dec 22, 2012
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  17. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

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    Absolutely, great debate! Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. [face_peace]
  18. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

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    Look at what the Sith are likely care to about. They care about strength, power, freedom, success and themselves. They care only about their own survival, not the survival of the Sith Order.

    The Rule of Two (supposedly) ensures that each generation of Sith will be stronger than the last (supposedly) by forcing the Master to prove himself in combat.

    Power is shared only between two. If there are more, the power must inevitably be shared. They're Sith, they don't want to share.

    Freedom. With only two, promotion to ultimate freedom is only one kill away. With an army, you've got a line of superiors with no hope of maintaining the chain of command.

    Success. Supposedly the Rule of Two gives individual Sith their best chance at success by staying hidden and manipulating events from the shadows.

    Themselves. Of course they can get more of what they want if there's only two of them. Supposedly limiting their numbers to two and staying hidden gives the individual a better chance at survival than they would have otherwise.

    For a fictional modus operandi, I think it holds up pretty well and I think it fits the Sith even better.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Dec 22, 2012
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  19. El_Machete12 Jedi Master

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    Oct 30, 2012
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    This whole "what-if-they-were-in-a-building" theory is, no offense, completely idiotic. That's like stating why have a king, or a congress? If they were all in a building, then they could easily get blown up at once!
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  20. Sistros Force Ghost

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    no offense taken :p

    but thats not the same thing at all,

    there is always a line to succession even if there is 320th in line for the throne

    (See English History) Stuarts onwards

    plus it wasn't the only example used, but seems the most common to quote.
    Last edited by Sistros, Dec 22, 2012
  21. Sitara Force Ghost

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    Guys, you are missing the point. Why are you saying the Sith apprentices would gang up and kill their elders?

    I specifically stated this whole Sith betraying one another was an EU invention. Why would they be so stupid as to kill each other rather than their enemies? Vader only betrayed the emperor because he became a Jedi again. He actually betrayed the Jedi first in the PT. Basically, there are bad apples on both sides, evil is everywhere and all that.

    I wanted the PT to have shown honorable Sith. They want power yes, but they also have honor. They just hate Jedi, while Jedi hate them

    Sidious and Anakin would be the true bad apples on either side, and both would betray their orders for absolute power themselves. Then Sidious can make up a rule of two to explain why he only has Vader in the OT. We can chalk it up to paranoia he has.

    Also, the Sith were not just successful with the Rule of Two. If you recall Mace Windu in his duel with Sidious, he says "The oppression of the Sith will never return" And soon after Sidious says, "Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy"

    I don't know about you, but the above quote heavily imply that the Sith used to rule the galaxy in the past, and were likely brought down by the Jedi. There were probably also quite a few of them, like the Jedi Order in the PT.

    So I wish Lucas had gone down that route. It would have been a pain in the butt to make up new Sith names though...;)
  22. ObiAlKenobi Jedi Grand Master

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    Mar 10, 2012
    star 2
    I do agree with some of the OP's points and have thought so for years. I think it would have added some much needed drama to the PT to have more than one Sith. Imagine the dynamic between Dooku and Maul, both being apprentices to Sidious. Or Dooku and Skywalker, etc. It certainly would have been interesting.
  23. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

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    Nov 5, 2001
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    Actually, he was trying to get Luke to join him so they could take out the Emperor together. The Emperor wanted to do the same: use Luke against Vader. The Sith seem to keep each other in check when there're only two of them, but when a potential third is involved, they get distracted by power struggles.

    The Sith used to rule the galaxy but lost mostly due to the constant infighting so they had to try something else.
  24. Sitara Force Ghost

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  25. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

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    It's not pure conjecture, infighting among the Sith comes from Lucas himself, as does the Rule of Two.

    It goes along with the Sith from a mythological point of view, they use the dark side and betrayal is an aspect of that.
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