Lit The Rule of Two...well, maybe more of a loose guideline...

Okay, a discussion in another thread inspired me to create this one.

1) Who are all the folks trained at some level as apprentices, Dark Side adepts, Sith, etc. by Palpatine and Vader?
2) What was there original title / role prior to the prequels
3) What was their status after any retcon?

I'll start off with a limited list.

Palpatine:
Darth Maul - apprentice - no major retcon
Count Dooku / Darth Tyranus - apprentice - no major retcon
Anakin Skywalker / Darth Vader - THE Dark Lord of the Sith / apprentice to Palaptine - PT makes him #2 DLOTS
Mara Jade - Emperor's Hand - no major retcon
bunch of guys in Dark Empire whose names don't recall

Vader:
Starkiller - apprentice in waiting - no major retcon
Shira Brie / Lumiya - Dark Lady of the Sith - recton to Emperor's Hand

Years ago I probably could have named a lot of this off by memory, but I'm getting old, and the EU keeps getting bigger.

Palpatine

Sith Apprentices

Darth Maul - apprentice
Count Dooku / Darth Tyranus
Anakin Skywalker / Darth Vader

Vergere (maybe? idk what the status of this retcon is now)

Emperor's Hands

Aralina Silk

Arden Lyn

Cronal / Blackhole

Jallar Golin

Jeng Droga

Maarek Stele

Mara Jade

Roganda Ismaren

Sa Cuis

Sarcev Quest

Sheyvan

Shira Brie / Lumiya

Vess Kogo

Dark Side Elite

Baddon Fass

Kam Solusar

Krdys Mordi

Kvag Gthull

Sedriss

Tedryn-Sha

Vill Goir

Xecr Nist

Zasm Katth

Count Dooku

Sith Apprentices

Sev'rance Tann (?)

Asajj Ventress

Savage Opress

Dark Jedi minions

Artel Darc

Kadrian Sey

Karoc

Nikkos Tyris

Quinlan Vos

Saato

Sora Bulq

Tol Skorr

Trenox

Vinoc

3 unnamed dudes Mace Windu kills in the original TCW

Darth Vader

Sith Apprentices

Galen Marek / Starkiller

Starkiller Clone

Shira Brie / Lumiya

Flint

Other students

Antinnis Tremayne

Hethrir

Kharys

Rillao

Vost Tyne

Sometimes I see why people ignore the EU. Sometimes...

Also, based ona technicality, since Darth Maul did not actually die in TPM, does that now mean he remained a Dark Lord of the Sith and Tyranus is "illegitimate"?

I don't know about that. Even if Palpatine was unaware of Maul's survivial he still replaced him with Tyranus; Dooku is still a legitimate Lord and Sidious' apprentice. Maul has been disowned so I don't know what his status would be, Sith Lord? Darth Sider?

Pretty sure that the RoT isn't like a law of thermodynamics, whereby the existence of two Sith absolutely precludes the existence of a third.

Tenebrous + Plagueis + Venamis = 3
Plagueis + Sidious + Maul = 3
Sidious + Tyranus + Maul + Opress = 4
Lumiya + Carnor Jax + Palpatine = 3

I guess you could consider the Opress brothers to be some kind of new Banite offshoot coexisting alongside the mainline Banites. I mean there were like hundreds of Sith doing their own thing on Kesh throughout the whole Rule of Two era so it's nothing new.

He also have the Inquisitors, Prophets of the Dark Side and "unique" cases like Rokur Gepta, Aurra Sing, Del Korrot and Azrakel.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Inquisitorius
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Prophet_of_the_Dark_Side
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Del_Korrot
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Azrakel
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Aurra_Sing

_Catherine_ left out of her list Vader's apprentice Tao.

Not canon.

You can also cross Mara off the list as she was never on the darkside, never did anything bad and only went after bad people. Why because her creator says so.

She ratted out the Dark Woman, that's enough for me.

Maybe. According to Leland, it's canon status is "fuzzy," which sounds like S-canon to me.

Well technically now it was retconned that Darth Maul was never even a "true" Sith.

I don't even know what that means.

Several sources, particularly Darth Plagueis, strong suggest that Palpatine may have called Maul apprentice, but never intended him to be anything more than a killing machine. Plagueis was aware of Maul's existence and did not object to his training, implying that both Sith considered him an exception to the Rule of Two.

Counting the various minions of Emperor Palpatine as Rule of Two violations is irrelevant. Once he became Emperor Bane's contingencies no longer applied, the Rule fo Two had fullfilled its purpose and Palpatine was in a position to abandon it, which he certainly did - explicitly so after his initial death (not for nothing, the use of the essence transfer power violates the principle justification behind the rule of two in the first place, that the single dark lord would die at some point).

Insofar as there are characters who could 'violate' the rule of two by properly threatening to replace one of the existing sith, the list is quite small. It's basically Maul, Ventress, Galen Marek, and Luke Skywalker (again, insofar as the Rule of Two even applied under the Empire).

Honestly though, I'd be prepared to say that the Rule of Two properly died with Darth Plagueis. At that point Palpatine had already become Supreme Chancellor, which moved him, and the Sith with him, outside the context Darth Bane had devised the Rule of Two to operate under, rendering it more or less irrelevant.

No such thing happened. Plagueis thought that Maul wouldn't be trained as a true Sith. That's what Sidious, devious bastard that he is, wanted him to believe. Otherwise Plagueis would have never allowed Maul to be trained. But obviously Sidious had other ideas in mind. Sidious dubbing Maul a Darth and Dark Lord of the Sith further reinforces this. There was no need for him to do so if it was 'just for show' . Maul already was fanatical in his devotion to him.

Even assuming this was true, there's a difference between how a Master perceives his Apprentice and how the Apprentice actually is. Plagueis' own master Tenebrous thought he was a dolt and considered him no more than a vessel for him until the Anakin Skywalker appeared and Tenebrous could hop in his body. Venamis was actually Tenebrous' true apprentice. We all know how that turned out.

Near the end of his life Bane thought Zannah was unworthy to succeed him. We also know how that turned out.

True, Maul doesn't have the wealth and influence Plagueis and Palpatine enjoy in the galaxy. But that is not what makes a Sith. Strength in the dark side is what makes a Sith, and Maul qualifies. He was already very powerful and he was only in his early 20s. I believe if Maul had 2 or 3 more decades to mature he would have surpassed both Plagueis and Sidious in power.

Also, I think we can agree that Palpatine didn't want or expect Maul to "die" ( read: be defeated, thanks TCW ) in TPM. So I think he intended Maul to be the official #2 Sith when Plagueis was dead.

Yeah...not sure I agree on that one. Besides, the authors opinion is not what matters, what matters is what is written in the EU.

Hard to say, he seemed to have no problem with the fact Anakin was going to be more powerful, he even says it to Yoda.

It's also the premise of RTJ that after Anakin ended up just a cripple in a lungsuit, Palpatine was after the next best thing in Luke as his next apprentice.

On point I want to bring up is I think while called "The Rule of Two", it is meant to be "The Rule of Three." The whole point of the apprentice rising above his Master and killing him usually means he already has an apprentice himself. It is kinda an unspoken constant that three will exist for the latter part of the apprentice's journey.

You seriously have an issue with the entire "Treachery is the way of the Sith" thing? They obviously took their own rules with a grain of salt. Not to mention Vader planned to have Flint and Shira duel to the death and take the victor as his true apprentice.