The Rule of Two

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Kimball_Kinnison, Nov 12, 2001.

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  1. Kimball_Kinnison Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    Lately, I have seen many people on the boards here arguing that there are only two Sith Lords at any one time. Usually they back this up by quoting Yoda in TPM saying, "Always two there are. No more, no less..."

    My question is, how does this translate into only two Sith Lords at any one time in the entire GFFA? At least, when Yoda made that comment, I assumed that he meant that someone had to have trained Darth Maul, implying the existence of at least one more Sith Lord. No where does he say that there can only be one master at a time in the entire galaxy/universe.

    Are there any EU sources that clarify this topic any? Or are we left to various interpretations of Yoda's single comment?

    Kimball Kinnison
  2. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    There can only be 2 Sith at any one time.
  3. Kimball_Kinnison Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    What is your source for that, other than Yoda's single comment?
  4. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    "Always two there are. No more, no less..."

    My question is, how does this translate into only two Sith Lords at any one time in the entire GFFA?


    Well, always two there are, no more, no less, pretty much means only two. It doesn't mean, "well, there might actually be more than two."
  5. Mavrick889 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 1999
    star 4
    There's a comic series called "Jedi vs. Sith" that shows how this rule came to be, 1000 years before TPM.

    Meanwhile, the Marvel series shows that the Rule of Two continues to be in action even after ROTJ, with Dark Lady Lumiya as the master, and Flint (who fails), and then Carnor Jax (in Crimson Empire) as the apprentice.
  6. Kimball_Kinnison Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    But it could mean that they always come in groups of two. Just like (at least in the prequel era) you could often find two jedi together, a Master and an apprentice.
  7. Vergere Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2000
    star 5
    i thought that the ancient sith established the rule of two. it doesn't mean that if there are already 2 sith, another dark sider is physically inhibited from studying the texts. it means that the sith will enforce the rule of two themselves and keep the number at 2.

    is this correct?
  8. Wedge 88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 1999
    star 6
    Not ancient Sith. Just Darth Bane and the followers of his rule. Darth Bane created the rule 1000 years before TPM.

    There have been Sith and Jedi since the begining of the Republic, hundreds of thousands of years before Darth Bane.
  9. Mavrick889 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 1999
    star 4
    Not quite hundreds of thousands of years...more like 25000 years...
  10. Vergere Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2000
    star 5
    lol corrections, corrections. :) thanks for the clarification!
  11. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Vader briefly broke/bended the rule to train lumiya as his apprentice to usurp power from palpatine.(A mission he of course never fullfilled in the way he had intended.)

    Beyond that It's only 2 sith lords/ladies at a time.

    Sith cults on the other hand can exist, for instance the Tund. They aren't lords and they don't belong to the rule of two faction.

    Or the Sith Knights that the empire hosted a contingent of. They are not lords, so do not contradict the rule of two that there be only 2 lords at a time. Lucas approved the Sith Knights recently check out my thread.
  12. Quiwan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 4
    Who says the sith have to follow this rule? They are evil and evil people don't always follow the rules.
  13. Vaderbait Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 6
    Or...seeing as how there are only two sith at a time, as Yoda said...how could another SIth "study the texts" and learn the Dark Side if the texts belong to Vader and Palps? I mean...I doubt Palps has a publisher put out a "12 Steps to becoming a Sith Lord", all though....I wouldn't put it past some of those....."authors"
  14. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Because there are alot of sith texts out there. The rule of 2 sith don't hold are carry all of them.

    Others have gotten into the hands of other people. Jedi, to other darksiders. The Tund have studied sith text for many years.
  15. Corran_Katarn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2001
    star 1
    One thing I could never figure out is how Yoda knew about the "Rule of 2". When Qui-Gon told the council he fought with a Sith they all seemed sure that all of the sith were extinct. Can anyone clarify this for me?
  16. Mavrick889 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 1999
    star 4
    Light will be shed upon this question soon...
  17. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    As for the tund the were pretty limited to there planet and didn't cause trouble so the jedi pretty much left them alone.
  18. Ana Vitorrian Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 1999
    star 3
    I'm not a big fan of the thought that Darth Vader trained Lumiya to be a Sith Apprentice.

    I have absolutely no problem with Darth Vader training Lumiya as an apprentice - there are lots of examples of Vader's apprentices, like Tremayne, Hethrir, Rellao, Vos (I'm blanking on the full name here - Vos is an Imperial Admiral), Flint, etc.

    But personally, I'd "rather believe" that if Lumiya "is" a Sith Lord, that's it's a self-usurped title with self-training from whatever Sith sources that she has found/appropriated. Certainly, Vader's, and even Palpatine's, influence would have been factors in Lumiya calling herself a "Sith Lord" - but I prefer the conservative approach with Vader shying away from breaking the Rule of Two. (Plus, I give the Emperor much credit in seeing through this sham "if" Lumiya was being trained by Vader in the Sith arts as a Sith Apprentice).

    I guess in some ways, and to a minimal extent, I analogize Lumiya finding her way in the Sith Arts post-RotJ in a similar fasion as Luke finding a way to become a Jedi Knight/Master - with minimal guidance because of the deaths of their respective Masters.
  19. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Of course one must remember it was vader who declared her dark lady of the sith soon after she was saved from the wreckage. He he hid lumiya right under palpatine's nose by offering her to palpatine as a hand.

    Vader was rather devious. As everyone knows vader was supposed to become the most powerful jedi ever, and wipe palpatine from the face of the galaxy, he had another way up his sleeves besides luke. It's Just that luke stepped in first.

    I didn't write this stuff of course this was written by abel g. pena.
  20. 1sicmaggot Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 3
    I think sith follow the rule even if they are evil. If they don't follow the rules of being a sith...then they aren't really sith any more, are they? Then they'll just be random dark force users.
  21. Vaderbait Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 6
    First, please stop referring to this "Tund". EU is not canon, at least, let's pretend, so we dont spark a whole other arguement. It would make sense for a relgion to eliminate most of their documents to ensure security. S eeing as how "the rule of 2" is to ensure security, I have a feeling only Vader and Pals have the documents.

    The Jedi know the Sith because they fought them. Spies could've stolen copies. Only 20 have ever left the Jedi order....er...21 counting Anakin, and only 2 have turned to the dark side. So it's not like they all broke in, turned evil, took documents, and all formed seperate sects.
  22. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Um we are in lit forum. If you don't want to discuss lit go to the prequal forums and stay out of this board.

    But since we are in lit forum anything in lit is valid to talk about.
  23. Mavrick889 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 1999
    star 4
    No, they might not have, but it is still possible that the various Sith cults are remenants of the original Sith Order that died off 4000 years before Yavin with Exar Kun...

    Also, I'm pretty sure the "Lost Twenty" are simply Jedi who left the order, not "fallen Jedi." It's possible that Dark Siders aren't included in that figure.
  24. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Tund never were jedi, just a race who had access to sith teachings, and self studied them on there planet in the middle of a lonely empty part of space.
  25. Lianna Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2001
    star 4
    The rule of "only two" makes the Sith a dangerous club to be in. Once you achieve Master status you always have to keep watching over your shoulder.
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