The sad death of Star Wars

I've been a huge fan of Star Wars ever since I saw the first show in the theater back in 1977. But I've had to come to terms with the fact that, in my opinion, the prequels are killing the series. Yesterday I finally got around to writing down my reasons why, which are at this site.

If anyone disagrees with me about what I term the "unforgivable" plot holes, I'd like to hear why. I'm serious: I would love for someone to convince me that I'm wrong so I can go back to loving Star Wars as much as I used to be able to.

Dagsy edit: See my post at the end

 

Your complaints are nitpicky at best.

 

Anakin having no father. C'mon, how likely is this? I realize that it's a science fantasy setting, but no movie should make it too difficult to suspend disbelief.
Many stories feature a chosen one with such odd beginnings, nothing wrong with it.


Yoda looked nothing like he did in Episodes V and VI. For goodness' sake, why on earth didn't they just use the original puppet?
I imagine that GL will make over Yoda for the UE of the OT. I'd rather he didn't, but oh well.


The midi-chlorians. Again, how likely is this? The whole appeal of the Force was its mystical nature. The fact that it couldn't be explained was part of the magic. But now that's been all but taken from us.
Mostly the midis are a symbology of symbiosis. I don't care for the idea of midis taking away the mystical nature of the Force, but then again this is not a wizard's tale despite the universal fantasy tale that SW is.


Anakin being the creator of C-3PO. Similar to the Luke & Leia debacle, the only "family-like" relationship in the entire series should have been Luke & Vader. Anything else merely detracts from the impact of that particular revelation. It's a huge galaxy; there shouldn't be so much interconnectedness.

A part of me agrees. But as the story goes C3P0 is a symbol of Anakin. His good nature is broken to pieces, shown quite literally as 3P0 is getting smashed to bits in 3 out of the 5 films, this is very casual symbology as they are not direct mirrors of each other, 3P0 is his own character and a part of the narration.

Really, it is all kind of nitpicky. I could nitpick any and every film ever made into a mess of film making.

 

You got some pure comedy gold over there, not only in the SW category but also in the Matrix category (where you seem to think that Niobe and her crew was killed during Reloaded when in fact that was the third crew. I also find it hilarious that you think the burly brawl was "the single greatest sequence in the history of filmmaking". That alone takes away any credibility in your critical review).

Speaking as someone who myself caught the original movies on the silver screen when I was a child:

ANH:
Perfect? Not by a long shot. Lots of flaws, both in contrivedness, effects. How believable is stormtroopers missing their shot at close range?

ESB:
My favourite, but certainly not perfect.

ROTJ:
Han Solo's characterisation being off in ROTJ? What the?!? Did you even watch the same films as me? Didn't he come back at the end of ANH? Wasn't his reluctance to leave the rebel alliance which made it impossible to pay his debts to Jabbe in the first place?

TPM:
What is so hard to believe about immaculate conception. We are having a movie where sound are heard and lasers are seen in space for christ's sake.

The rest of the comments are just nitpicky things that can destroy any films worth.

If you are trying to build yourself as a brand of claiming that certain sequels/prequels are ruining the various franchises you need to learn to write better and be more original, as there is plenty of competition with a lot more talent than the one you have demonstrated in that game.

 

Where do I start? Gotta agree with Patriarch156 if you think the burly brawl from Matrix Reloaded was ?the single greatest sequence in the history of filmmaking?? you really need to get out and see more movies. Anyway I checked out your site and since you are fishing for comment; here are a few:

Return of the Jedi:

1) Your comments about Han Solo?s character are completely off, not his characterization in the film. Han was no longer that devil-may care rougue from the beginning of ANH. If he were why did he come back and save Luke??? There?s certainly no motivation there? for that matter why was he hanging out with the Rebels at the beginning of TESB??? You claim that the ?only reason he was with the Rebels during the second movie was due to circumstance.? No it wasn?t. There was no circumstance at the very beginning of TESB holding him back from leaving Hoth base (which he was in fact trying to do). What was he doing, just chilling out with his buddies in the time span between ANH and TESB??? If he was such a mercenary he would have jetted out after ANH and would have been nowhere to be found in TESB.

And your other point that he consented to help with the Death Star 2 assault as ?payback? is pretty weak. They guy was just rescued by his best friends, they sacrificed everything to get his sorry butt out from the clutches of Jabba the Hutt? Also let?s not forget Leia? she loves the guy? I think that?s motivation enough for him. I never for once in my 20 years of viewing ROTJ questioned that Han?s big motive for leading the assault was to impress Leia, and demonstrate his love for her.

You see this is where people completely stupefy me with their assessments about Star Wars? these films are about sacrifice and loyalty. Standing up against the bad guys with your friends no matter what the odds. Anyway on to your second point:

2) What?s the problem with Luke and Leia being brother and sister??? Waaaayy back in 1983 (when we thought there were going to be 9 films) most people realized this was going to be explained and Eps 1-3, and we even thought we might get to see Leia in some cool Jedi action in 7-9 (but that wasn?t to be). And sorry, ?the big surprise and suspense of the series was supposed to be the question of whether Darth Vader was Luke's father? was not the BIG debate in 1983, the big debate was who was ?the Other? Yoda was referring to. Remember this is Space Opera? this is a family drama about the dysfunctional Skywalker family, which just happens to be set in space.

Yes, there was a fringe element that felt Vader was just lying to Luke, but I thought it was very cut and dried. Vader asks Luke to search his feelings? later on Luke does just that and all he keeps repeating is ?Ben, why didn?t you tell me?? I thought it was pretty obvious at that point that Vader was indeed telling Luke the truth.


The Phantom Menace
1) Anakin having no father? umm you do realize Lucas is using familiar mythological and religious themes in these films, right? Lucas is simply trying to spell out that despite the Jedi Council?s doubts, Anakin is the Chosen One? and yeah Lucas has made Anakin something of a Messianic figure, so??? I still remember waaaay back in 1978 my Sunday School teacher using Star Wars characters as object lessons for class. The religious themes have always been there.

2) Yoda? yeah, it?s called a failed attempt at making Yoda look a little younger. Don?t worry it will be corrected.

3) Midichlorians? I?ve said it once and I will say it again. Midichlorians are not the Force. ?The whole appeal of the Force was its mystical nature? The Force is still a ?mystical energy field created by all living things?? The only thing midichlorians do is explain why some people are more in tune with the Force, why the ?Force runs strong in your family?

4) Anakin building Threepio? it?s foreshadowing. Anakin will become a machine, just like the machine he is creating? it?s nothing more than that? just like Vader cutting off Luke?s hand and Like doing the same to Vad

 

Dr. Shades, You are correct! I couldn't agree with you more on just about all of your points. TPM should never have been produced, AOTC was good but there is nothing like the 1977-1983 trilogy. GL waited too long between ROTJ and TPM.

 

Yes, a terrible idea to do the prequels.
They've made what, about 1.5 billion dollars so far? Someone bought all those tickets!
LOL

 

Nitpickey!

Now nothing is killing SW.
THe ONly people who don't like the prequels are some fans and critics!

I see no problems with the prequels besides the one fart joke....that is it that is my only problem with it.

And don't try to have us convince you to like them. Either you like them or you don't. But don't try to get us to convince you into liking them.

 

"The timing of Anakin's introduction to Owen Lars. In the first movie, Ben Kenobi explained to Luke that "Uncle Owen" thought that Luke's father "should have stayed here, and not gotten involved." But in this show, Owen didn't even meet Anakin until he had already been involved for ten years!
C-3PO living on the Lars farm. In the original Star Wars, Owen purchased C-3PO after interrogating him about his skills, having obviously never laid eyes on him before. Yet in this show, C-3PO has been living and working with Owen for who knows how long--possibly nearly ten years! Although it's possible that C-3PO's memory will be erased in Episode III, it's hardly possible that Owen's will be (or even can be). To solve this problem, Watto could have easily explained to Anakin that he sold his droid to some passing travellers from Alderran. "
--Your Site


Well first of all Owen probably did not want Anakin to get involved in the Clone Wars. The Clone Wars was what Ben was talking about in ANH and they were starting in AOTC. Owen did not want Ani in the Clone Wars.

C-3P0 was a different color in ANH and it was 30 years later since Owen saw him. Owen has many droids on his farm. Can he remember one he had 30 years before and with a different color. Plus 3P0 never gave his name in ANH. All those droids look the same anyway.

I like that Luke, Leia and Vader are all family. And I like how Vader built 3P0. It is all fate.

Plus you said it is a big galaxy. Why do Leia and Luke have to be family? Well they are the children of Vader and so they must have a part in his redemtion.

Your stuff is nitpicky. I love the fact that Anakin has no father. It makes his character so much better because he is the chosen one.

The Prequels add so much more meaning to the OT.

 

Well first of all Owen probably did not want Anakin to get involved in the Clone Wars. The Clone Wars was what Ben was talking about in ANH and they were starting in AOTC. Owen did not want Ani in the Clone Wars.

Actually, I think he probably meant how he left with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to go become a Jedi. The Jedi Order was idealistic, so Anakin's journey was somewhat of an idealistic crusade.

Owen didn't want the same thing to happen with Luke.

 

I completely dissagree with everything on this site(at least in the Star Wars section).

1.) Its not your film. Its George Lucas's, so nothing he does is considered a "screw-up" because its his galaxy and whatever he says is possible, whether you find it to be good or bad. Its his saga, his story, and he'll tell it in his way. There are no mistakes in Star Wars, because it is impossible for a mistake to be in Star Wars(unless of course Lucas deems it to be a mistake).

2.) If you're looking for something to complain about...chances are, you'll find it. I think the fact that you're older and see Star Wars with an adult vision verses the vision you had of it as a child makes the prequels impossible to meet your standards. You will never see Star Wars the way you saw it as a child again, because you are an adult now, and you see things differently. To a child nowadays, the prequels are better due to better effects and newer quality. They see the stories as being both the same level. To them, the only difference in the films, is the date.


-Bane

 

Hey, I'm having a great time with Star Wars, no sad death here

 

I am very intriuged by alot of these responses, but I am afraid I too must concede that the prequels are not up to par with the OT. That is not going to keep me frome seeing them or make me turn my back on Star Wars. I do, however, dislike very much the whole "midi-chlorian" thing (there is a book by Kevin J. Anderson, Jedi Search, I believe, that discusses this device with paddles developed by the Emperor that allowed them to identify Force-sensitive beings - I don' think that it has anything to do with midi-chlorians, but thats just what I think). The OT is good, but is not without its flaws (would the most talented and prestigious of all the Empire's soldiers really not be able to hit an eight foot wookie carrying a protocol droid ON HIS BACK?) but the Prequels are hurting the prestige of this great movie saga.
*sigh* If only someone would do Shadows of the Empire...

 

There is nothing wrong with the prequels. You people need to stop jumping on the basher bandwagon and just accept the prequels as good movies.

 

While I do agree that the prequels were weaker than the OT, the problem IMO was in the execution of the movie. IOW, it was George Lucas directing of the films that has degraded, not the story. Let's go over the reasons you listed and why its really doesn't detract from the movie.


1. Han Solo character. We do know that Han Solo was a pirate and a rogue, we also do know that his rescue by Luke Skywalker and Leia changed him. That scene was reflected in the meet during Han and Luke at Tatooine after the rescue, a scene deleted from the movie, but still evident in the script and novelisation.

2. Anakin parentage. While I will say that the movie execution failed to make adequate play on the mythical play of this, the parentless birth of Anakin skywalker enhances the mythical aspect of the story. Jesus "virgin Mary" only reflects the "saviour"aspect of Anakin Skywalker. "Sons of Suns", "The One who will bring balance to the Force".

3. Yoda appearence. Nitpick.


4. Midichlorian. How is the Midichlorian different from the "qi force" and "mana"?

5. Owen Lars- Anakin. This suffers from the change in script direction undertaken during ANH to TESB, however, its easily understood. Beru Lars said that Owen was a son of the soil, and that he felt that Luke father should have stayed true to his roots and not gotten involved in some damn crusade. IOW, Anakin should have remained behind with Shimi Skywalker.

6. C3PO- Right, a droid that now golden in colour instead of being black, chrome plated instead of being "naked" and a man who has went through countless number of droids is expected to remember C3PO?

 

Han Solo's characterization was off.

How about a little character development? If he was written like you'd hoped. He would be a one dimentional character who was the same character we saw in the cantina that he was in ROTJ. Sounds pretty boring, doesn't it?

Luke and Leia were revealed to be twins.

There was a connection established between Luke & Leia in ESB... ROTJ just fleshed out the relationship a bit more. I don't think that killed the story by any means.

Anakin having no father.  C'mon, how likely is this?

Really nothing that happened in SW is likely. It's a movie. But the likelyhood of it happening in a mythological story like SW. Is very likely. Go read some Campbell or Jung or Edith Hamilton Mythology books. Many hero's have this trait.

Yoda looked nothing like he did in Episodes V and VI.  For goodness' sake, why on earth didn't they just use the original puppet?

Well, he was younger. The puppet was a little off. But it was still Yoda. Not that big of a deal. And they didn't use the puppet from the OT because it was about 20 years old. The materials it is made from doesn't last forever.

The midi-chlorians.

Read a bit about what GL is trying to say with midi-chlorians. A big part TPM was the idea of a symbiotic relationship between all living things. The word Symbiotic was even used a few times in the movie. Midichlorians are supposed to represent the bridge between organic and spiritual life....

Anakin being the creator of C-3PO

Why not? It doesn't hurt anything, it doesn't create any plot holes. No biggie.

The timing of Anakin's introduction to Owen Lars.  In the first movie, Ben Kenobi explained to Luke that "Uncle Owen" thought that Luke's father "should have stayed here, and not gotten involved

We don't even know exactly what Obi was talking about.... maybe Owen thought he should've never left tatooine when he was a kid. Maybe he was talking about he not leaving the farm to go look for his mother... it could be something that happens in Ep3. Not every word muttered in the OT has to be wrapped up in a neat package in the PT.

C-3PO living on the Lars farm

GL already has talked about memory wipes. It doesn't mean Owen actually did the wipe..... again, nothing that should make you hate the PT.

Well, Dr. that's my 2 cents. The only sad death I see in the PT is some fans abilities to enjoy the films and not nit-pick the heck out of them.

 

First off I agee with everything Bane said. It is Lucas's universe he does what he wants it is his story.

These are not flaws they are your personal opinions.

You said Han changed! Wow really? Guess what Luke, Leia, Han, C-3P0 and Vader all changed.

3P0 began as a not so good story teller. Now he is a great story teller on Endor.
Luke began as a whiny teengager he became a mature and great Jedi Master. Leia began as a stuck up royal and became a caring compasionate leader. Han was a rogue who cared for nothing and became a guy who cares. Vader began as the villan and ended a hero. It is called character development!

The Prequels are different. They are not better than the OT nor are they worse. It is one story. "one big 9 hour film." And most of all it is Lucas's story!

Darth Seldon

 

It seems to me that Dr. Shades would not be happy unless all six SW films were identical to ANH. You want all the characters to act the same in all the films and you want all the movies to be very similar to ANH. Perhaps you should just change the opening crawl for each film and keep ANH as the atual film.

TPM Opening Crawl
then the ANH movie

AOTC Opening Crawl
Then ANH movie

Episode III Opening Crawl
then ANH Movie

ANH movie and crawl

TESB Opening Crawl
then ANH movie

ROTJ Opening Crawl
Then ANH movie.

I mean things change. If you only like ANH then only watch that film. I don't see a problem with the others. Episodes will be different! Characters will change! Concepts will be added to. Midicholorians show the potential of Ani. They are a scientific explanation to make it all plausable.

Seldon

 

You people need to stop jumping on the basher bandwagon and just accept the prequels as good movies.

It will happen.

STAR WARS has been around for almost 30 years. 30 YEARS! STAR WARS is still very popular and very successful after exploding onto the scene almost 30 years ago.

I see no reason to jump off the very enjoyable ride that is STAR WARS.

 

Anakin having no father

There's nothing wrong with this, tons of legends,myths, etc. have chosen ones who are born with out a father.

Yoda looked nothing like he did in Episodes V and VI.

He's quite a bit younger so what do you expect, however I do wish he had been like he is in AOTC.

The midi-chlorians.

They aren't the force they are mainly an indicator.

Anakin being the creator of C-3PO.

I didn't mind this I just wish he had been re-building 3PO instead of from scratch.

-Jedi Master Zax Starwalker

 

Anakin did kinda rebuild 3PO. He's supposedly made out of spare parts. So I'm sure his past goes back further than TPM, although he may not have been called See-Threepio back then.

These point are all quite nitpicky. People have been declaring SW dead for a long time. Ain't gonna happen.

 

I would love for someone to convince me that I'm wrong so I can go back to loving Star Wars as much as I used to be able to.

Sorry, but you're going to have to do that yourself.

 

I'll just say that the title of this topic is really stupid...
I don't think anybody is seeing a "sad death" for Star Wars...

 

Sad death? You gotta be kidding!.

Star Wars is in very good shape for a movie franchise that is nearly 30 years old! In pop culture that's an eternity. This website has nearly 13 million posts on it.
The 2 prequels combined have made about 1.5 BILLION dollars. Tens of thousands of people are playing "star wars galaxies" online. The video games are selling well, the books are doing fairly well. It's very healthy. Millions of people have attended the Magic of Myth Star Wars exhibits at museums. As Mark Twain might say "reports of my death have been greatly exagerrated."