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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

The Saga Graded

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by The_Improved_BMD, Mar 2, 2007.

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  1. DarthBarresi

    DarthBarresi Jedi Master

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2007
    The Phantom Menace - C
    Attack of the Clones - C+
    Revenge of the Sith - B+
    A New Hope - A
    The Empire Strikes Back - A+
    Return of the Jedi - A
     
  2. DarthPoppy

    DarthPoppy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2005
    Star Wars: A+
    One of my top 10 films of all time, it really tells the whole story of all six films (minus Vader's hokey redemption) in one great, fun, at time funny film that neither takes it self too seriously nor sinks to infantile humor. It created the genre and is still unsurpassed.

    The Empire Strikes Back: A-
    The best made of the six films, for me it suffers as it begins to shrink the story to that of Luke/Vader family drama as opposed to the Galactic struggle of good and evil. Also the force begins to lose its wonderfully subtlety with Vader hurling kitchen sinks at Luke and absorbing blaster bolts. Still technically and dramatically the best of the lot. However, it also suffers from telling half a story which is poorly resolved in:

    Return of the Jedi: C+
    The weak link in the OT. The tone suffers a terrible change from the first two films, becoming downright silly and infantile at times and the film is full uncreative rehash of things we have already seen in a bigger, but not better way (Jabba's Palace < the Cantina, Death Star II < Death Star, Battle of Yavin, etc.). Complete loss of subtlety of the force (now we have the Emperor, your typical 18th level Magic User). No longer a credible underdog beats Empire through subtelty and courage, now it is Ewoks with stick and stones beating armored storm troopers with blasters--just not credible. It is saved from complete failure by having the characters we loved from the first two and resolving the lose ends of ESB.

    The Phantom Menace: F
    The biggest cinematic let down I can recall. After waiting 20 years, we got the worst installment of the series. The infantile tone of Return of the Jedi was lowered to an embryonic level! Who would have though stepping in crap and fart jokes would have a place in a Star Wars film? While the franchise always had plenty of marketing tie-ins, that is all this film was, from Pod racing to Padme's costumes. The plot was never compelling, the acting poor and hearing that the force was little creatures in your blood was just too much. Not helped by having a child actor in the lead. I only saw this film once (it was that bad), so I have forgotten many of the specifics.

    Attack of the Clones: D+
    While stylisticly and pacing wise much more interesting than the train wreck that proceeded it, this film still managed to find new ways to dissappoint: bad acting and writing for Anakin and Padme's characters, the worst love story in a major release in a long, long time, the backstory of Boba Fett becoming an important plot point, etc. C-3P0's character was also taken to a new low in the arena scene. The Droid factory was the worst plug for a video game since "pod racing". However, this film was successful in showing some "reverse engineering" from the OT, the Clone Troopers, Death Star plans, etc. Also McGreggor's Kenobi came into his own, which was a pleasant surprise.

    Revenge of the Sith: B+
    Without a doubt the class of the PT, this film finally discarded much of the childishness that brought down its three immediate predecessors. Unfortunately, the characters of Anakin and Padme were still quite weak. While parts of this film suffered from the same trouble as the other PT films, it made up for this with actually telling how Anakin became Vader and we actually got to see the volcano duel we had heard about since childhood. This film had enough drama and was mature enough to make it a much better film than Return of the Jedi. Had Lucas not dug such a deep hole for himself with such bad episodes I and II this could have been great; unfortunately he was stuck with this new and unnecessary backstory; accepting these restraints, he did quite well.
     
  3. Jamiebacca

    Jamiebacca Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2003
    So like, I guess yer not a big fan o' the Ewok movies, eh Poppy?
     
  4. DarthPoppy

    DarthPoppy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2005
    J-Bacca, I must admit, I have never seen the Ewok movies. The Holiday Special was enough "small screen Star Wars" for me!
     
  5. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2001
    LOL! Was The Phantom Menace really that bad? I mean, I know it had many flaws, and I agree its possibly the worst of the series, but even so, it had a lot of good stuff in it as well. Liam Nesson wasn't too bad, IMO. Seeing the political subterfuge of Senator Palpatine was interesting, I thought. Coruscant was realised exceptionally well. The Duel of the Fates was exciting and differant to anything seen at that point and the theme was a stunning choral piece. So, yes it was very flawed, but I'm not sure I would say it was a complete tainwreck.
     
  6. Darth-Stryphe

    Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2001
    TPm had its moment, not bad, IMO. But I can see why people would have a problem with it.

    So how do you grade the films, G-FETT?


    So like, I guess yer not a big fan o' the Ewok movies, eh Poppy?

    LOL!!! Now that was funny!
     
  7. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2001
    As for how I rate the movies;

    The Phantom Menace C-
    The worst movie of the series for me. The acting is poor generally, but there are some good performances. Liam Neeson and Ian Mcdiarmid are the best actors of this Episode. I never had a problem with Jake Lloyd, funnily enough. The biggest let down of the movie for me was Obi-Wan Kenobi. I always felt his relationship with Anakin was wasted in this movie, and the PT struggled to make up for it, right out to the closing moments of Episode III. Infact, up until the final 10 minutes or so, Obi-Wan is practically irrelevent throughout the whole of this film. Even though I think Liam Neeson did a good job, I would have prefered his character and Jar Jar Binks to have been toned down (has anybody noticed that the two characters with the most to say and do in Episode I are then pretty much dropped fron the rest of the story?) and to have had more Obi-Wan and Anakin.
    Other good points about TPM; I loved the political sub-plot with Palpatine and The Senate - Natalie Portmans best scene in the movie is where she brings down Valorum as Palpatine sits next to her, pulling the strings - Watto was an excellent character I thought. Duel of the Fates was amazing and unlike anything up to that point. Darth Maul was cool. The Pod Race was OK and I thought Pernilla August turned in a great performance as Anakin's mother. I was genuinely moved by their relationship.
    Other bad points; I couldn't understand half of what Jar Jar said and the Gungans overall were quite tedious. The Gungan/Droid battle is definatly the worst of the series. A general feeling of "going through the motions" somehow. Lucas hadn't directed in a long time and I think at times it does show. This is a film about children, for children, so if your not a child your going to have problems with a lot of it. Yet I understand why its like this and the contrst with Episode III - The way the galaxy changes and turns on its head does show TPM in a differant light, at least to me.
    Overall an epic ideas movie that unfortunatly falls flat on its face at times. Even so, there are more ideas and creativity here in this, the worst instalment of the series, than you would find in 90% of so called Blockbuster films.

    Attack of the Clones B-
    I said in 2002 in the now closed AOTC Forum that I thought Episode II was the best Star Wars movie since 1980, I still stand by that (though I think Episode III is better) I was one of the few people that enjoyed AOTC when it opened and have never changed my mind since. Now, I grant you, it is the worst edited movie of the series. Lucas really should have brought in a co-editor and not let Ben Burtt edit the film completely. I also agree that John Williams' music is treated shabbily in this film and infact the whole movie could do with a damb good re-edit, both in terms of action and music. I also think that Natlie Portman is at times at her worst in this film and often looks like she just can't be bothered, which really annoys me, because whilst I don't demand amazing acting in these films, I do expect the actors to at least try and make the lines work. I don't care much for the chase through Coruscant, but can see why its there. I also don't like the sequence in the droid factory much, but again, I can see why its there. OK, so thats the bad stuff, but what about the good stuff;
    Ewan Mcgregors Obi-Wan Kenobi really does come into his own, as already stated. Ewan actually turns in his best performance of the series in this film, even though I think he prefers Epsiode III. Essentially, I think Ewan carried AOTC and gives a tour-de-force performance.
    I enyoyed the romance between Anakin and Padme - An old fashioned courtship. The Love Pledge and the moment Anakin and Padme are carried into the arena was a moment of perfection for me. Infact I felt Anakin and Padme's scenes together were all warm and genuine. Hayden gave a GOOD performance, in my view.
    I loved Kamino and the whole cloning sub-plot. With Kamino AOTC is the most sci-fi of all the movies and I enjoy that abo
     
  8. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Star Wars (A New Hope) A+

    The film where it all began. Works extremely well as both an opening act (IV- VI followed by I-III) or as a middle act (I-VI) OK, compared to the PT I will admit that its a lot slower and that is primarily because of the era in which it was made (for 70's cinema it was actually quite fast paced) But the first half of the film also had/has the job of setting up the rest of the movies, both sequels and prequels, so its not surprising that it needed an extended period where theres very little action and lots of dialouge.
    Aside from the special effects, which we all know were completely revolutionary and groundbreaking for the period in which it was made, the thing that really astounds me about Star Wars is the choices that Lucas made. Starting the movie with the the Imperial Star Destroyer attacking the Tantive IV was such a bold decision. Following the droids around for 10 minutes and telling the whole story through the droids was such a bold decision. Taking a crew into the middle of the desert was a bold decision. Having a cast of unknowns with a couple of old school British actors was a bold decision. You can see where I'm going with this... Generally the whole of this film was a huge gamble and the decisions that were taken, in terms of the way the movie was made, edited, brought together, etc... Was an endless list of huge gambles and bold decisions and as far as I'm concerned each and everyone of them payed off.
    The great thing about Star Wars is that even now, 30 years on, it is such a breath of fresh air. A simple fairytale of good against evil, a fun rollercoaster ride that is at once laugh out loud funny but also offers the viewer a serious insight into the psyche of myth. Outstanding performance's from Harrison Ford and Alec Guinness respectively, as well as the impact of Darth Vader and a chilling turn from Peter Cushing, all helped this film reach the heights it has reached.
    There really aren't enough supperlative's I can give this movie, so I'll stop here. Essentially its the perfect blockbuster and I can't see how it can be bettered. An amazing and exceptional, groundbreaking movie that changed cinema fundamentally and forever. A perfect film, which came out at the perfect time, but is as fresh and as relevent today as at what 30 years ago. What better praise can you give it than that?

    The Empire Strikes Back A+

    This is the movie that took the simple good Vs evil story of Star Wars and deepened it and darkened it in many new and surprising ways. Its the perfect melding of minds; Lucas's imagination, Kasden's mature and intelligent writing and Kershners downright quirkiness. One of the big debates Star Wars fans have always had is about how differant a Lucas directed ESB would be compared to Kersh's ESB. I'm not sure that in terms of story and tone it would have been that differant, but I definatly think that in terms of quirkiness, like the sub-plot with the Falcon's hyperdrive and the humour with C3PO and Chewbacca's characaters, would have been missing and thats one of the main factors in my view that makes Empire such a well-rounded movie. Both dark and desperate and also fun and funny at the same time.
    The bold decisions taken on this movie were two-fold. Firstly, the decision to make such a dark movie, a movie that in terms of tone was completely differant to the amazingly sucessful Star Wars, was a bold decision. The most obvious way to go would have been to do a sequel that was the same or very similar to Star Wars, but to make it so differant was a huge gamble, with no gurantee of it being sucessful. The other bold decision was Yoda. By deciding to make Yoda a puppet, rather than putting a little person into make-up and a costume, was a massive gamble and if Frank Oz hadn't done such an amazing job could have made ESB a huge and complete disaster.
    Generally all the perfomances are better than in Star Wars. Mark Hamill gives a much more mature performance and especially late on gives a depth of performance that you wouldn't have expected in the f
     
  9. Jamiebacca

    Jamiebacca Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2003
    The Holiday Special makes the Ewok movies look like The Empire Strikes Back! That's not even a fair comparison! LOL!

    Actually, the Ewok flicks are directly aimed at kids - sort of feature-long Saturday afternoon TV things - and for that, they're not bad. And since they're in their own context (not making silly bowling pins out of Imperials) they're easier to like. The second one is more interesting and action-packed, and includes a witch villain (Charal)that, according to the Official site was a Nightsister from Dathomir (go RETCON!!) lol!

    They're not NEARLY as bad as the Holiday Special. Heck there's not even anything as wince-inducing as Jar-Jar in them (I'll take ewoks over Gungans any day).

    Put it this way, for what they were - mid-80s made-for-TV spin-offs, they aren't half-bad at all. THey were both hits at the time and won awards & stuff.
     
  10. Darth-Stryphe

    Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2001
    THS has much entertainment value, just not the kind Fox intended. I bored of the Ewok movies as a kid, and they were supposedly aimed at me. I couldn't even finish the second one (which, by the way, it technical a theatrical release, so maybe we should grade it, too ;)).
     
  11. DarthPoppy

    DarthPoppy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2005
    Hey Stryphe, where are your grades?!
     
  12. OBIWAN-JR

    OBIWAN-JR Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2002
    The Star Wars Saga: A+

    A wonderful story.
    'Love, is the answer to the darkness.'


    -JR :)
     
  13. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Yes come Stryph, I want to see what pathetic rating you give Attack of the Clones. [face_laugh]
     
  14. AL_Patterson

    AL_Patterson Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2007
    I use to love those Ewok movies so much. The second where the Ewok speaks english was my favorite.
     
  15. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2004
    4. A
    5. A+
    6. B+
    1. B
    2. B-
    3. A-

    In relation to all other movies. I'd consider an average movie to be a C.
     
  16. DarthNidLoc

    DarthNidLoc Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2005
    ROTS: A+. The one we waited over twenty years for. Vader is Born. The opening fight with dooku and the way anakin takes him out are great. Battle of Heroes. Yoda vs Sidious was great. Palpatine throwing senate pods at Yoda was great if you hadn't read the novelization prior. Yoda getting a chewieback ride is the type of humor that should be in a star wars film not the tpm poop jokes.

    ESB A+ Cinematic masterpiece. Darth Vader at his best and most evil. He chokes two of his own men in this one. Boba Fett intergaltic bad$$$. Yoda is great and hilarous in his early scenes pretending to be just a strange little elf thing. Yoda hitting artoo with his gimer stick cane shouting "mine, Mine, mine" makes me laugh to this day. Best fought duel(ROTJ Duel is more emotional)in the OT. Vader is Luke's father, biggest surprise in movie history.

    ANH- A. the death star battle is great. Luke looking at the suns setting was so good that they ended ROTS with Owen and Beru holding luke doing the same thing with the same music.Luke returning to find his aunt and uncles bodies still make me tear up a little bit(as I guy I am comfortable admitting that is one of the few scenes in any movie that can do that to me) The scene in Ben's hut is great.

    ROTJ-A-. Great space battle. Wedge still lives(he is a better pilot then Anakin or Luke, he surives both Death Stars without the force). Vader wasn't lying to luke in ESB is shocking the first time you see it if you are old enough to have watch the first 3 in order before the prequels came out. The Duel is the second most emotional powerful scene in the films following Luke finding Owen and Beru's bodies.

    TPM- B+ Starts off great with Qui-gon and Obi-wan pwnning the driods on the ship. Jar-Jar is okay until they leave Naboo(he gets more annoying the further he is from home I guess). Jake as Anakin is good in some scenes and terrible in others. Duel is great(a pure skill fight as opposed to the parts of Anakin vs Obi-wan that at times was just the two of them brawling, which was not a bad thing and approriate for that duel). Maul is awesome.

    AOTC- B Obi-wan story is great. Genosis battle is great. Sets up ROTS nicely. Very good Palpatine scenes. Jango is a good character as is Dooku. what hurts it is the love story that dragged and fell flat and the shortness of the saber fights at the end.
     
  17. DARTHFINGERZ

    DARTHFINGERZ Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2004
    The Phantom Menace B-

    -Qui Gon, Darth Maul, the final battle, JW score & the pod race are all great iMo. The film has grown on me over time as when I first saw it I was pretty dissapointed.

    -I don't hate Jar Jar as much as I used to but he is still bothersome. Has a few too many cheesy/corn-ball moments. Fart jokes do not belong in SW.

    Attack of the Clones C+

    -Hints of greatness here and there -- CG Yoda, Dooku, Kamino, the Fetts, the clones & Anakin's slow turn.

    -The editing was as choppy as the love story. Way too much repetitive/excessive dialogue. 3Po basically becoming Jar Jar was pretty bad. He's always been comic relief but this time around they pushed him into cartoon territory.

    Revenge of the Sith A-

    -A ton of classic SW moments. The birth of Vader, the birth of the Empire, the birth of the twins...Palpatine's rise, tie ins to the OT were all awesome. Portman, McGregor & Christenson really did their thing this time around.

    -The film really should have had the Qui Gon voice scene with Yoda. Samuel L. Jackson's final acting moments after his duel scene with Ian was stiff and awkward. It brought that whole scene down a notch iMo.

    A New Hope A+

    -Classic SW. The film that started it all. Some possible future FX tweaks & updates will make it an A++ iMo.

    -I have nothing bad to say about this film other then I hope the Greedo/Han shootout is restored one day.

    The Empire Strikes Back A+

    -I love the darker feel of this film. Vader is a bad-ass, Han & Leia's relationship is great, the rebels getting whooped works great as a lead in to RoTJ.

    -Luke & Leia kissing...gross.

    Return of the Jedi B+

    -The final scenes with Luke Vader & the Emperor are classic. Yoda's death is sad as hell. The Saga closes out nicely. A very fun movie to watch.

    -Han's character just came off too soft overall. He also needed ONSCREEN closure with Lando following everything in EsB. It was like some magic "reset" button was pushed and everything was simply okay again. The Jedi Rocks addition is one of the worst moments in the Saga.
     
  18. fat

    fat Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2002

    [face_dancing] boogie!
     
  19. SkottASkywalker

    SkottASkywalker Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2002
    STAR WARS EPISODE I: THE PHANTOM MENACE A+, 4 stars out of 4 stars, 10 out of 10.
    The first new STAR WARS movie in over a decade and a half. The wait, the anticipation and then, finally it was here. Absolutely beautiful movie and an absolutely amazing experience.

    STAR WARS EPISODE II: ATTACK OF THE CLONES A+, 4 stars out of 4 stars, 10 out of 10.
    Great and clever title for a great and clever movie.

    STAR WARS EPISODE III: REVENGE OF THE SITH A+, 4 stars out of 4 stars, 10 out of 10.
    Wow. Moving and exhilarating.

    STAR WARS EPISODE IV: A NEW HOPE A+, 4 stars out of 4 stars, 10 out of 10.
    The movie that started it all. Absolutely amazing, absolutely compelling and absolutely entertaining.

    STAR WARS EPISODE V: THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK A+, 4 stars out of 4 stars, 10 out of 10.
    Totally compelling.

    STAR WARS EPISODE VI: RETURN OF THE JEDI A+, 4 stars out of 4 stars, 10 out of 10.
    Completely pleasing and completely fun close to the STAR WARS SAGA.

    I enjoy each STAR WARS episode and each STAR WARS trilogy and the STAR WARS SAGA fully and equally.

    The heart and the imagination of and put into each STAR WARS episode and each STAR WARS trilogy and the STAR WARS SAGA are absolutely amazing and totally appreciated. =D=

    There's nothing like STAR WARS. Any of it. All of it. :cool:
     
  20. STUBRIS

    STUBRIS Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2001
    While I can't agree that all SW movies are 10/10, 4 star classics..I do agree with the sentiment. I would rather watch even the weakest SW movie (TPM) than any other non-SW movie (Although the Superman movies push them close).

    TPM - B

    AOTC - B+

    ROTS - A

    ANH - A+

    TESB - A+

    ROTJ - B
     
  21. Moleman1138

    Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2004
    The Phantom Menace B+
    Liked:
    1. Duel of the Fates
    2. The Podrace
    3. The Jedi Council Chamber design
    4. Watto
    5. Padme dual role

    Hated:
    1. Fode/Beed Two Headed Announcer
    2. Not enough R2 and 3PO
    3. Costume Drama
    4. Childish behavior
    5. Darth Maul as a throwaway villain

    Attack of the Clones C-
    Liked:
    1. Jango Fett
    2. Kamino
    3. Return to Lars Homestead
    4. Padme's Apartment
    5. Obi-Wan vs. Jango fight

    Hated:
    1. Lethargic 1st half
    2. Yoda Fights
    3. That Punk Liam the Youngling
    4. Droid Factory
    5. Jango as a throwaway villain

    Revenge of the Sith A-
    Liked:
    1. Battle of the Heroes
    2. Hayden's Improved Acting
    3. Palpatine
    4. The Last Shot on Tatooine
    5. Order 66

    Hated:
    1. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
    2. Only a tease of Alderaan (Should've been MORE)
    3. No rebellion scenes
    4. Grievous as throwaway villain
    5. Dooku as throwaway villain

    A New Hope A+
    Liked:
    1. Binary Sunset
    2. "Your Father's Lightsaber" scene
    3. Rescuing Leia
    4. Obi-Wan vs. Vader
    5. The Cantina

    Hated:
    1. Jabba - Special Edition
    2. Greedo Shoots First
    3.
    4.
    5.

    The Empire Strikes Back A+
    Liked:
    1. Luke vs. Vader
    2. Reluctant/Forbidden Love
    3. Leia Commands Hoth
    4. Battle of Hoth
    5. Vader and Palpatine

    Hated:
    1. Nothing
    2.
    3.
    4.
    5.

    Return of the Jedi C
    Liked:
    1. Luke/Vader 2
    2. Palpatine
    3. Point of View
    4. Funeral Pyre
    5. Home One Briefing Room

    Hated:
    1. Muppetooine
    2. Jedi Rocks
    3. I Love You- I know AGAIN
    4.
    5.
     
  22. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2001
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOO...... Seriously? :( [face_crying]
     
  23. Moleman1138

    Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2004
    I always joke around about that when it comes to AOTC.
     
  24. Ulfor-Bombaasa

    Ulfor-Bombaasa Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Patient you must be and see them you will.
     
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