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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST The Sanctuary - (Dissenters Unite! - Warning on page 232)

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by BretHart, Dec 13, 2017.

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  1. DBPirate

    DBPirate Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2015
    I’m not a massive TFA fan but it definitely felt way more like Star Wars than TLJ, which was just a flat out depressing film with no soul.

    JJ got at least one thing right — the heart of the Star Wars universe. Rian couldn’t even get that. I guess deconstructing the evils of capitalism was a higher priority.
     
  2. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    I don’t genuinely see any misogynistic relationship implementation in AOTC or ROTS as Padme is pretty much in command of the courtship going in between them until in ROTS when they become co-dependent on each other and Anakin dives into his own insanity, which results in him becoming Vader.

    There was also previous establishment in all 3 Episodes of Padme/Anakin in a more respectful manner. Rian takes the “tragic” aspect of the lovingly relationship of the two in ROTS’s culmination of its climax but without the depth or proper build up.

    Rey is treated, as you said yourself, more of a bad fan fiction write off. Kylo is the big bad but alluringly handsome and attractive man and Rey is the generic plain women being subjected to his hypnosis. Kylo is oddly obsessed with this generic facade and will do anything to get her.

    One must wonder if Rian self inserted himself into Rey;)
     
  3. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    I’m actually completely fine with the writing for Padme and the courtship until Mustafar. The worst I can say about them before is there is some bad dialogue and wooden acting, but overall I was on board with Lucas’s vision. The problem arose at the end of RotS. Padme begging him to pretty please stop murdering children and run away with her was bad enough, but then she loses the will to live while delivering twins because he said no?! In a family saga, this portrayal of motherhood disgusted me on a very very deep level. By itself it ruins RotS for me.

    I agree with this. As bad as I thought Anakin/Padme was in the end, they had the foundation. The Kylo/Rey dynamic is just a silly imitation that makes both Kylo and Rey look dumb. I really couldn’t take any of it seriously. I felt like their scenes resulted in one long eye roll on my part, from Rey taking Kylo’s self-indulgent pity party bait, to Kylo caring to explain his whoa-is-me plight, to Rey attacking Luke on behalf of Han’s killer, to Kylo telling whimpering Rey she’s nothing and has no place in the story. It was just dumb dumb dumb.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  4. Rhyoth

    Rhyoth Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Count me in ! Despite its flaws (especially its over-reliance on recycled elements), TFA brillantly recreated "SW's spirit", and gave us fresh new characters to care for.

    On the other hand, TLJ gave us the WORST of both worlds :
    1) the movie still recycle a lot from the OT :
    _ spending an entire movie running away from the Empire
    _ 2nd throne room scene
    _ Hoth / Crait parallels

    ...
    2) the SW's spirit has been completely trashed :
    _ the epic and the sense of galactic proportions is gone
    _ the extraordinary adventures have been replaced with parking infraction
    _ no team-up moments for our main protagonists (can you imagine Luke, Han & Leia not interacting for an entire movie ?)

    _ new characters have been seriously damaged : Rey's "Mary-sueness" was amplified (instead of mitigated), Poe became a total jerk (with as much consideration for his men's lives as an OT Imperial Officer), and Finn drafted out of the movie (to some weird BB-8 commercials)
    _ several core values of the main Saga were thrown away, especially the "virtue of heroism", or how important it is to not let "fear" & "anger" define you ... (and replaced with whatever BS the Canto Bight was all-about)
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
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  5. La Calavera

    La Calavera Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Well, I don’t have much love for TFA. And I don’t view JJ Abrams as “oh this guy really respects Star Wars”, I view him as a guy who really really loves ANH and wanted his new ANH but bigger and better. To the point that he really didn’t give a damn about the characters arcs of the OT. It also felt like JJ tried too hard to please the “George Lucas raped my childhood” fanboys, but that’s a topic for another discussion.

    But JJ is a damn good mimic. He did try to recapture the spirit of Star Wars via film making techniques and story focus, and while the mythology was a bit off (Rey gets instant powers for no reason, Kylo tries to be dark but is seduced by the light which makes no freaking sense), and the world building was lacking, he did try.

    TLJ… well, I’m here. I will say though, TLJ has stronger moments for me. Not in terms of plot, but in terms of the way they were filmed. Luke’s final showing and death made me actually cry a bit. Han’s death in TFA made me angry, but I didn’t cry. TLJ also has a lot of beautiful, incredibly shot scenes with clever sound mixing and evocative music score that did make me feel goosebumps. TFA has… uh… Rey’s introduction scene I guess.

    But TLJ doesn’t feel like a Star Wars movie at all. It feels like a rant on Star Wars in form of a movie. Star Wars is about myths. When you try to deconstruct a myth, you destroy the essence of that myth. TLJ doesn’t make me care about the galaxy; it reduces its mysteries and myths into gags, it makes fun out of the aliens, it treats the world building with cynical lens, and creates this depressing feeling that nothing matters. So I have more negative feelings for TLJ than TFA. At least TFA tried to tell a Star Wars story.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  6. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    The way I see it, TFA was a very flawed bland retelling of ANH. The major problems were the rampant OT nostalgia, Rey's thin arc, Kylo's inconsistent arc, and a dearth of any actual backstory

    TLJ doubled down on all of these, making Rey even more OP with no character development, retreading vast swathes of ESB and ROTJ, and still not telling us who Snoke is, how he seduced Ben or why we should care when he dies.

    TFA was dull and derivitave. TLJ was more dullness and derivitaveness.
     
  7. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    This is such a good point that I hadn’t thought of before. TFA absolutely spat on my “head canon” and I really was okay with it. I didn’t want Han and Leia split up. I didn’t want Leia to have not developed her force abilities. I didn’t want Luke absent, or the OT3’s legacies destroyed or no new Jedi. I didn’t want the only established new Skywalker to be a bad guy. I didn’t want Han, Luke and Leia to be unhappy. I didn’t want a retread of Empire vs. Rebellion.

    I never read the old EU, but I always pictured any sequel trilogies picking up with the galaxy still recovering from the Civil War and not having an easily established New Republic, but a splintered galaxy full of organized crime filling power vacuums. I actually had very specific head canon after RotJ because I kind of filled in for myself where the story might go. Obviously, I’m not one of those people that condemns “head canon” as some kind of cardinal sin. Quite the opposite, I find those kinds of self-imposed pedestals quite arrogant and ridiculous.

    So yeah, I had tons of expectations for the new movie, although ironically I didn’t specifically care before TFA if the new hero was a Skywalker lol. And yet, I loved TFA and was on board for what LF gave us and where I thought the trilogy was headed. Namely I thought it was headed in a direction where Rey is the new Luke Skywalker to be trained under heroic Luke Skywalker as he completes his story rebuilding a new Jedi Order. Not where Rey is some bland lovesick super charged side character panting after a psycho for no actual reason while Luke dies a failure.

    For whatever reason, perhaps just because one is a good movie and one isn’t, I enjoyed one movie stomping on my head canon and disliked another that did the same.
     
  8. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Yeah, the Mustafar scene and the lame reason for why Padme died really did a disservice to her character. The way the movie intercut the scenes with the twins` birth and Anakin being turned into Vader was pretty neat but they should have set up something like Anakin and Padme having developed a connection within the force (yes, between force-user and non-force-user) and that her feeling his pain like that drained too much of her strength.

    Or, for godssake, say Palpatine did it through the force. Though then you would have a hard time explaining him not knowing about the children.

    They found a mystical reason for why the accelerated pregnancy and birth of twins took Chani`s life in Dune, an otherwise strong and healthy young woman who wanted to life. Would have been equally easy to do something like that here.

    As for the plea to him on Mustafar, yes, that`s truly bad. I mean, I can get her pleading with him to just stop but what he had already done should have had consequences.

    I say that as someone who actually enjoys the odd fanfic where Anakin does become emperor, forces Padme to be his Empress and she slowly works him over till she basically deals with Galactic politics. Which, understanding his character, would have probably been what he wanted because he never wanted to deal with the buerocracy of ruling. He would have been happy to be a military figurehead.

    One thing I find endlessly fascinating about Mustafar - and it really enrichens the OT for me - is Vader`s patented choking move. It is what he has been led to believe how he killed the woman he loves. So making that his signature move means he purposefully punishes himself over and over and over. That`s messed up in such a psychologcially juicy way.

    But I digress into PT territory here. I agree that Rey and Kylo just don`t have the same build-up or foundation. They were enemies in TFA and a tumbler fanfic in TLJ. Nothing more than that.

    The earliest parts of old Legends EU is actually not very far from that. I mean, it took work to get a new Republic off the ground in those books. It took work to get a new Jedi Order off the ground. Seeing that work was compelling. It gave us new characters away from the OT trio and told their stories and those were compelling, too.

    I think your headcanon or expectations matching what was the actual story in the books pretty well (and equally those books met what I envisioned would happen) has a very simple reason: it was a logical story progression.

    Anyone who knows anything about how stories go, know some history maybe and were asked: what do you think would happen if the story went on after ROTJ would come up with some similar points. So did the authors of those books.

    It wasn`t really an accident no author pitched "yeah, I was thinking after ROTJ, a giant space slug would come in and eat all the characters we know and then things go from there." Because that kind of storytelling would have made everyone gone "huh?"
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  9. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    But that’s the whole point of Padme. She and Anakin wanted to side step their own responsibilities for love. Anakin was willing to kill and betray while Padme was willing to forgive and forget.

    That is the tragedy.
     
  10. wobbits

    wobbits Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2017
    I went into TFA with no expectations, no EU influenced headcanon and I loved it with the exception of the direction it went with the OT3. I thought Kylo as a villian had potential. The costume, lightsaber, and new powers he had (thanks to technology) were very cool and promising. I loved the idea of having a female Jedi take center stage because I had wished for years that Leia would have trained with Luke. It felt like a fun, in universe Star Wars movie. Overall, I left that film with hope for the next one.

    Again I went into TLJ without any expectation of EU story lines. I read the spoilers ahead of time so I had a general knowledge of what was going on. I definitely wasn't prepared for the 50 Shades of red forced intimacy with a narcissist. The film did not feel like it was the follow up to TFA. It barely felt like a Star Wars film to me. It had the same kind of music, the same tools such as lightsabers and blasters, it had familiar names but it wasn't the same in any way that mattered. It is the first time I have ever been extremely disappointed in a Star Wars film. I tried watching it a couple more times but in the end, I have no plans to purchase this film on DVD when it comes out even as much as I love Leia and Carrie Fisher, I don't want this movie in my catalog. That is the first time in 30 something years I have said that about Star Wars. Broomboy and Rey Nobody don't rival the emotional parentage reveal from ESB nor do they broaden the universe. RJ should not be getting credit for his claim that "anyone can be a force user" George already had that down.
     
  11. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    I could be on board for this if it wasn’t for the motherhood aspect. The big point of the OT for me was the power of father/son love. Then the PT gave us a mother who’s love for her children didn’t rate at all next to her love for a man even after he became a mass murderer of children. Padme wasn’t even afforded the respect by the writers to have a say in what happened to her children. She loses the will to live and then Yoda, Obi and Bail, three men not even family to her, without her input at all decide the fate of her children. It leaves such a bad taste in my mouth. There was a way to make it tragic without that.
     
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  12. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Maybe it would have been terribly cheesy but since Padme had ready-made names already, maybe they could have had a scene earlier with her and Anakin discussing baby names. Or, something about the baby in general. She could have mentioned something about the names having some relation to "light". Both "Luke" and "Leia" fit that bill.

    Actually, so does "Rey" but god knows what they were thinking with that, More mystery box probably.
     
  13. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
    I really wish Disney took the opportunity to combine both sides of the Fandom for the ST. If they did something like Rogue One, blending OT and PT aesthetics, I feel there would be something for everyone. Problem is they didn't. A good amount of PT fans didn't like TFA for its obvious OT nostalgia bait, and a good amount of OT fans don't like TLJ due to the way the story and characters went. I hope JJ can unite the two halfs of the Skywalker Saga in Episode IX but I don't think it's possible tbh.
     
  14. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    I didn't care for TFA mostly. Although to be fair Han was handled as well as could be expected there given that Ford most likely was always going to be one and done. And I liked Finn a lot there despite preferring his character would've been more serious, and not as tied to bumbling comedy (which, yes, was just as prominent if not more so in TLJ).

    So pretty much for me the ST thus far is one bland pastiche, and one creative failure that feels like a goofy sitcom with some odd sprinklings of grimdark.
     
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  15. kalzeth

    kalzeth Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 26, 2017
    I had strong like for TFA but didn’t love it. The low parts for me were that Han seemed too much a loser, SKB in general was a let down from the concept to the fight. I also thought some of the humor was heavy although TLJ makes that look like nothing. I also didn’t like that not one mystery was answered. Phasma a little wasted but not a huge deal.

    But that was it. The world building was good. It felt lived in. Characters felt rich and real and made me care about them. I also was enticed and wanted to know more. Dogfights and space were great. The plot was also logical and coherent with the exception of the resistance/ NR dynamic. All the bass had personality and character.

    Also didn’t match my headcanon at all which is legends but enjoyable nonetheless


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  16. ImpreciseStormtrooper

    ImpreciseStormtrooper Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2016
    I not only enjoyed TFA but I still do.

    It was a good start with a range of characters who looked the goods, Rey, Finn, Poe. I forgave it its issues. They were mostly minor nitpicks or the result of it being a soft reboot (which was understandable)

    It had some genuinely great visual story telling, and subtextual writing for those interested.

    I was onboard. If IX is great I see TLJ just being relegated to a oddity/anthology effort with VII and IX being the real Saga in my head.

    For IX to be great, though, it needs to tie everything together as a true finale to a coherent trilogy.
     
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  17. JDN21

    JDN21 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2004
    The ‘head canon’ response is really odd. I probably go in to most sequel movies with some head canon, but it has never bothered me if it didn’t ‘match’.

    I went in to TLJ with some (logical) head canon based off what we knew from TFA. If TLJ was any good, the fact it didn’t match my head canon wouldn’t have bothered me one bit.

    I’ve actually got about 1000% more head canon for TLJ now that I’ve seen how rubbish it was.
     
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  18. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001
    I am bringing this over from the old teeth gnashers' thread.

    @powerfulforce said:
    I completely agree. When they first started this trilogy, the filmmakers promised that they were going to "Move forward while respecting the past". In my opinion, they have COMPLETELY disrespected the OT films and characters, most especially Luke's character. The OT films are now irrelevant, and all of the achievements made in them are null and void now. As I said once before, what was the point of Luke redeeming his father, Anakin Skywalker, only for him to be a big part of the reason for Anakin's grandson's fall to the dark side 30 years later? Plus, he apparently lost half of the rest of his students. Luke had to have been the absolute WORST Jedi Master ever to lose more than half of his students to the dark side!

    They also had Luke act like a coward and run off after creating the mess with his nephew, which allowed the first order to grow strong and eventually destroy the New Republic and reduce the Resistance to 20 people and one ship. Great job, Luke!

    The popularity of Luke, Han, and Leia and those OT films was what caused the PT and now the ST to be produced in the first place. But now TLJ has ruined Luke and the events of the OT films, and what has it left in their place? New characters who never seemed as endearing or enduring as Luke, Leia, and Han in the first place, but who have also been diminished by TLJ. Rey, in particular, didn't grow, didn't change, wasn't tested, didn't make mistakes, didn't struggle, and seems much more lackluster than in TFA. She has never had to learn anything; whatever she needs to do, she can magically do. Now, even though she wasn't even trained by Luke or anyone else, she seems to be about the same level at the end of TLJ after less than a week of even knowing that the Force existed, that Luke was after RotJ, after 4 years and 2 Jedi instructors. Even worse, she is likely going to be the one who will restore the Jedi Order. She will be given the legacy that should have been Luke's, and I think that is totally wrong, and makes me even less interested in this character who doesn't struggle or work for anything, but is given everything.
     
  19. JDN21

    JDN21 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2004
    Talking of head canon, is there a place we can post fan fiction about TLJ (or alternatives) on this forum that actually gets read?
     
  20. JDN21

    JDN21 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2004
    Were the Knights of Ren in Rey’s Force vision of any significance? In TFA, it looked like Kylo and the Knights torched the temple, but as that isn’t the case, why is Rey seeing that? What does it have to do with her past or the lightsaber? Another TFA set up ignored by RJ?
     
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  21. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    I have mixed opinions on TFA. On the one hand, the new characters are very good. Daisy Ridley’s performance is one of the best in any Star Wars film and she delivers contagious excitement. As a premise for a character, Kylo Ren is fascinating but poorly written, and Adam Driver struggles to make a lot out of an awkward script.

    Visually, it is inconsistent, with some settings that are evocative like the Star Destroyer graveyard and the lightsaber duel. On the other hand, some parts feel like generic super-hero-movie protein powder, like the Rathtars. Overall, the transparency of Abrams’ plan to recreate ANH and ESB scene for scene has a depreciating effect. For example, Maz’s castle would be more enjoyable if it weren’t so blatantly obvious that it is a knock-off of one of the most iconic scenes in pop-culture sci-fi. Maz too is a baffling knock-off of Yoda. To some extent, it would be a better movie if it wasn’t Star Wars. The overarching plot, a re-hash of Empire vs Rebellion, feels tired and oddly out of place. Finally, the decision to not have a reunion moment between Luke, Leia and Han is simply unforgiveable, but reveals that Abrams’ probably didn’t feel confident in using such iconic characters.

    All things considered, I like TFA, but just barely, and mostly for Daisy Ridley and Oscar Isaac. I enjoyed RO much more, (although that is not a perfect movie either). However, it does look better now that it can be compared to TLJ.
     
  22. nightangel

    nightangel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2014
    I just watched 'Logan' on paytv and surprisingly this movie made everything right that TLJ made wrong, wow. [face_hypnotized]

    I mean you see old grumpy Wolverine in the beginning with a depressive backstory of the X-Men. And I already thought after 10-15 minutes, ok we get the same depressive stuff like TLJ, but nope. It early gets a direction change and moves to a reluctant mentor/student relationship. Wolverine gets his Vader Rogue One moment and the relationship of Logan and Laura is the beating heart of the movie. Logan's death is very emotional and it means something for Laura (if she is a clone or his real daughter doesn't matter at this moment anymore). It also ends on a hopeful note with the next generation. And to add to this Logan/Wolverine did not overshadow Laura and Laura did not overshadow Wolverine. Both fight together and for both is a fitting place in this story....again wow...did not expect that this is the movie how TLJ should have gone. [face_sigh]
     
  23. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    The first time I saw Rogue One, I wasn`t too impressed. It certainly ended on a high note but mostly I was just feeling like it enhanced the title crawl of ANH. Now that movie felt even more meaningful because I saw a group of rebels fight so hard to get those plans. That was an inspiring moment of heroism like I know and treasure them from the OT. In TFA only really Poe embodied that spirit to the fullest.

    Now, especially after TLJ, Rogue One has risen in my estimation a lot. TLJ says the end is supposed to be an inspiring moment of heroism, the movie ostensibly closes on that being a message of hope and enlightenment for the galaxy and I`m like: for real? That scene had nothing on that group in RO going off and fighting tooth and nail for those plans, ultimately all sacrifing their lifes for it.

    In the timeline about 30 something years might be between the two movies but in viewing experience, it is only one year and seriously comparing Crait to the final act on Scariff and expecting me to see Crait as some big moment of inspiration? Not gonna work. If you show me how epic it still could be and then give me that lackluster thing in comparism, sorry, but nope.

    Rogue One isn`t without its flaws but it has the spirit of Star Wars, it fits in very well with the pre-existing saga and despite all the characters dying, it is a more uplifting message than anything in TLJ. Which, yeah, TLJ is all about dissecting the very idea of heroism because it`s "real". It`s a movie, a space fantasy, it`s not a real life documentary of battling cancer or something, it doesn`t have to be deconstructionist reality. It`s not like people forget what real life is like if you give them inspirational heroes in movies.

    I mean the MCU does and it is doing fine. The DCEU went the desconstructionist "real" route and it is in shambles. Oh, except the one movie that gave us an inspirational hero, that did well. Hm, I wonder why that is.
     
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  24. Tycalibur

    Tycalibur Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2001
    I think that TFA is in hindsight going to be the closest the filmmakers will come with the last three chapters of the the 9 saga films to 'pleasing everyone'. It was an impressive feat, I personally didn't know many who utterly disliked TFA. As strictly a setup film, I liked it well enough, even if far too often it raided the storage room of ANH's story arc. Despite that, TFA could have taken the new story new exciting places heretofore unexplored. Whether or not it did in the next chapter is up to the individual.
     
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  25. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001
    @Alliyah Skywalker, I don’t see the ending of TLJ as being an inspiring moment of heroism either. It didn’t even look all that amazing, especially with Rey and Kylo force Skyping all through the film, and the technique seeming so similar to Luke’s force projection. Maybe it would have seemed more awesome if it wouldn’t have killed Luke? The audience didn’t even really get to see Luke withstanding the barrage of the weapons . We just saw the weapons firing. Then there were a couple of dodges, and that was it. Kind of meh and shoulder-shrugging if you ask me. It didn’t seem that impressive, and the fact that it killed Luke made it less so.

    I asked this question a fairly long time ago, but never really got an answer (or else I missed it.): What made Luke change his mind about ending the Jedi and choosing to try to help the resistance?

    For six years he wasted his life on the island while snoke and Kylo terrorized the galaxy and the first order grew powerful. He planned to die on that island, and he planned for the Jedi order to die with his death. The arrival of Rey, a potential new and powerful student, didn’t sway him from his plan. Finding out that Han was dead and that leia desperately needed him and wanted him to return didn’t get him to change his mind. Discovering that Kylo was communicating with Rey and that Rey was going to try to enlist Kylo ‘s aid didn’t move him either.

    Luke only decided to go to help after yoda showed up, but I scratch my head trying to figure out why. Yoda just continued to humiliate him about still needing to learn ( while apparently, Rey never did need to learn anything). Yoda didn’t say anything profound. There was the “ failure being the best teacher” or something, but what did Luke learn from failure? He certainly never had another opportunity after that to teach another student or to rebuild the destroyed Jedi order, so what exactly did Luke learn from his failure with his nephew?

    That stupid line about “them growing beyond us”, really made no sense, because Luke really DIDN’T teach Rey. He just agreed to teach her why he thought the Jedi should end. It can’t be said that Luke was her Jedi Master or mentor or anything. They had a very antagonistic relationship, with Rey even attacking Luke and (of course!) besting him in a skirmish. Their relationship never improved, and then Rey was gone.

    So WHY did Luke change his mind to end the Jedi and to help? And if he had made the decision about an hour earlier, he could have gone with Chewie and Rey to help the resistance.

    Which reminds me and sends me off on a tangent: WHY would Chewie be willing to help Rey get to the first order ship to seek the help of Kylo Ren, the guy who had killed his best friend, Han Solo, about 2days earlier??? The more I think about this film, the less sense it makes!
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
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