ST The Sanctuary - (Dissenters Unite! - Warning on page 232)

Yep, the aftermath of WW2 is more like the aftermath of the Galactic Civil War purely for one reason - WMD's. In real life, Nukes had become a thing and in GFFA, Death Stars had become a thing. As a result, the aftermath of WW2 resulted in a reorganised world order, including NATO, the UN and more integrated trading systems to facilitate peace and mutual understanding. Once the Empire used a Death Star to destroy cities and planets, the game changed forever. There was no going back to the old-style demilitarised Republic. But obviously, that's what happened because Empire v Rebels 2.

 

Right. Put in simple terms, the Alliance/Republic seemed to think after the Battle of Jakku that they could kick the can out into deep space and forget about it. That seems like a really bad idea and kind of immoral at the same time.

And to your point, @JDN21, the Republic apparently has no army of its own?

 

We don't know do we. It could be that the New Republic is more like the EU - a system of semi-autonomous states/systems with integrated policies and trade etc, but could still have independent militaries. Or it could be like the US, where each state/system is completely integrated and the whole government is represented by one military.

 

At least in the EU the new Republic at first flourished. And the old military and political leaders of the Rebellion like Mon Mothma weren`t idiots. I mean, if they were as big of an idiot as the new canon makes them out to be how did they ever get a successful rebellion off the ground? Why didn`t they blindly fall for Palpatine in the first place?

The good guys in the OT, be it the main trio as well as more background characters, seemed capable, tough and smart. And some of them fought for twenty+ years against seemingly insurmountable odds. Yet new canon tells me that the second they won a definitive military victory over the Empire, they all turned stupid and incompetent on the spot?

That could maybe, maybe be a story if the leader of the rebellion was purely a military person and they just made all the wrong calls in peace time. Yet Mon Mothma started out as a Senator, a politician. Though still a politician who from ground zero on, the moment Palpatine declared himself Emperor, started a rebellion with Bail Organa. And was committed to fight. Such a person wouldn`t just go "ohh, cool, we`ve won, let the FO rebuild in peace and take no precautions for our fledling new Republic we fought so hard for to not be overrun in a few years".

What the ST did is basically give the OT characters prequel mentalities so that their new ST characters could be OT characters now. Which simply doesn`t flow in a continouus Saga. After thousand generations of peace, it made sense that both the old Republic and the Jedi had grown complacent. Their prequel-mentalities made sense. Twenty years later we have characters who have lived under an oppressive regime and some lived through the Clone Wars so their new and changed outlook made sense as well.

Rebooting this construct so simplistically that basically nothing takes the OT into account is ridiculous. After again twenty years of kinda peace the old OT folk should have an outlook that is informed by what they were - rebels - but also their new experiences. And the ST characters should be something else entirely, not reboot central.

If I want to watch the OT, I will watch the OT. It will always be ten times better than the soft reboot anyway.

 

Lucasfilm made NR so useless that make me think "if the heroes win the war again then probably the New New Republic will be a mess and other Empire/First Order will start everything again?"

 

I think it goes with the general feeling of antipathy the movie has towards everyone outside of the main characters. For example in TLJ nothing was done for the child-slaves on Canto-Bight or how we are only told in a few lines about the fate of the galaxy after Hosnian Prime and not even shown that and in general is dismissed. In general there is the feeling that the movie doesn't care unless it directly impacts one of the main characters for example Rose wanting to get one up on the weapon dealers because what they did to her home. I think the movie is written from a very selfish/what-is-in-it-for-me moral standpoint.

It just boils down to LFL being so risk averse that instead of doing something new they just went and tried to remake the OT, but with new characters with largely the same character arcs and story. I am sure the scenario you've outline could plausibly happen, but by then even the audience will tire from the same old trick and demand something new. KK/JJ will either accomplish the impossible and killed our beloved franchise or they'll give us something new.

 

She understands Wookies because Chewie is her father (but she doesn't know that yet)

 

So true, one day I would love to know the source of LFL risk adverse writing. The Film Group? KK?

 

Nah Rey is there now she'll show the Republic how to do it right this time. She knows it all and will take all the credit for the rise of the new Jedi Order.

 

I still haven't finished reading the Bloodlines novel, but after watching TFA I assumed the whole point of blowing up the capital was to eliminate as much of the Senate as possible leaving Snoke's loyalist Senators to assume power effectively pulling off what Palpatine had done without the need for a costly war.
Ideally Snoke''s allies made sure to tag all of the ships they supplied the Resistance so the First Order would remain one step ahead keeping their build up a secret since being nonhuman he wouldn't share the Anti-human prejudice the Empire would undoubtedly face.
Why exile Leia for being the daughter of Vader?
You'd think someone of her reputation would be beyond that kind of stupidity but throw in Anti-human prejudice and obvious ambitions of those vying for the Supreme Chancellor position... well they're still idiots.
That's why I assumed the New Republic was responsible for attacking Luke's Academy, Ben had been taught by Leia NOT Luke meaning with her busy he probably focused on force training but was barely a novice with the lightsaber.
Snoke used Leia's inattention to corrupt Ben, when she recognised her mistake she sent Ben to Luke unaware Ben carried a tracking beacon so Snoke persuaded an ally that Ben was being trained to become a new Darth Vader combine Anti-human prejudice with the fact Luke was keeping his new order out of the political intrigue that caused the fall of his predecessors order and that's why Luke went into hiding and why Leia believes she'll be assassinated if she goes back.
I still haven't watched The Last Jedi and frankly will buy the Justice League movie than touch this, I can't call it a travesty since the cast clearly performed a miracle given people actually like this.
So I wonder what could have been and just stop there.

 

They say RJ was in on and aware of Bloodlines. Nothing in TLJ indicates he's ever heard of it, much less been in the story meetings. TFA? Yes. It totally fits. Just like TFA, TLJ ignores things set up by Bloodlines.

 

How DOES Rey know Wookiee by the way? And why didn't Luke learn it in the last thirty years? Rey knows droid and Wookiee both. Those copies of Rosetta Stone she must have found on Jakku sure came in handy, huh?

 

I found this quite strange considering he asked for something to be added to the story. His interview comments regarding Kylo feeling neglected/abandoned etc by his parents also made me think he wasn't aware of how Bloodline portrays Han and Leia as doting parents or even the small pregnant Leia tidbits in the Aftermath series.

 

Per Bloodlines, Luke wasn't around very much, even before his formal seclusion, so he probably had no reason or opportunity to learn it. As for Rey, I would guess Jakku is kind of like Tatoonie; a backwater planet, but one where many traders, smugglers and thugs come through.

@wobbits There are a lot of things that are quite strange. We live in a world where in, when it comes to stories, "simple" equals "dumb or easy or childish" and "complex" means "intelligent or thoughtful".

Kylo Ren, in the span of about 72 hours:
Kills Lor in cold blood and orders the murder of dozens of innocent people
Stands by as trillions die
Murders his father
Tries to kill Rey
Is almost killed by Rey
Cannot kill his mother
Lures Rey to his master
Kills his master (for whom he killed his father)
Cannot kill Rey (who just tried to kill him)
Tries to kill his uncle

Leia senses that Kylo can't kill her, but she knows he's gone. Luke thinks Ben is gone, but says 'no one is really gone'.

That's not complex; that's schizophrenic nonsense under the guise of being complex.

 

Of all the complaints about Rey, her understanding droids and wookies is of least concern to me.

However, it is another creative choice that detaches Rey from an 'everyman' character. Luke - like the audience - had no idea what R2-D2 was saying in the OT. He used threepio or computer translations on his x-wing dashboard. This made him more like us.

I don't care if Rey speaks wookie. But it's just another example of her exceptionalism; and one that makes her different to "us".

It makes her less relatable. In TFA Finn's interaction with Chewie were hilarious exactly because he had no idea what Chewie was saying.

Rey as a character could have benefitted from being confused and not knowing everything quite as often. That would have felt more real.

 

She probably picked it up from her swimming instructor on Jakku.

Or, you know, the force... I think TLJ needed a constant gif of Han Solo going "that`s now how the force works" next to it.

Agreed. But apparently being so perfect and all-knowing is supposed to be relatable in a female hero. Because women are not real people, just wish-fulfillments and I don`t want a female characters to have struggles and setbacks the way I would want a male character to have. Or something. I don`t understand the KK/RJ/LF/Disney mindset in that regard.

 

You know, I was willing to forgive TFA all the similarities to ANH, because I thought it was fun. I didn't like that Han and Leia were estranged or that Han died, but both made sense and had a purpose. I was OK with Luke being on the sidelines because I thought he was doing something and that we would see that paid off later.
So in spite of the story structure and the 'beats' being so similar, I was OK with it.

I was just realizing how similar TLJ is to ESB:
In the wake of the big weapon being destroyed, the heroes are on the run from a better-equipped opponent
There's a game of cat-and-mouse in space
The villain is ordered to bring a new threat to him for a confrontation
The young hero seeks out the hidden mentor and met with reluctance
The young hero learns that the mentor wasn't truthful with her about how the villain was created
The young hero rushes off to face the villain against the mentor's pleas and has to be saved rather than being the one who saves
A character thought to be an ally turns on his would-be new allies (DJ is a bad guy who looks to be good as opposed to a good guy who is forced to be bad)

Where TLJ turns ESB on its head is the Kylo/Rey relationship, which attempts to mirror Vader/Luke, only it goes further into ROTJ territory. And it does so with no cause, as the two have no describable reason to have this sudden bond they have. They bond after Ren kills Han, gravely hurts Finn, and physically harms Rey.

 

Rey knowing droid and Wookiee is just another thing to add to the list of reasons I don't consider her a character, but rather an idealized prop for Lucasfilm to wave around.

Rey is not a person. She never has anything go wrong for her. Even when she makes mistakes (wrong fuses, captured by Ren... twice?, leaving Luke) those mistakes end up with positive consequences for her. (Rathtars cause Han and Chewie to join the group and leave together, first capture causes her to learn all about her powers via mind meld, second capture kills Snoke, leaving Luke causes him to snap out of it and join the fight)

There's nothing to relate to there. She's great at everything, knows more than anyone else, is an experienced fighter to the point she can defeat the guards she has to fight alone (and even has to save Ben!), she can lift the rocks without ever even trying to do so before, she can fly and shoot anything perfectly fine. Even her mistakes end up benefitting her. Literally nothing has actually had negative consequences for Rey in two films. Even when something goes bad, it goes right. Like fighting over the lightsaber. Yeah, it's split, but behold, it split perfectly so that the kyber Crystal is perfectly intact, ready to be re-used as it most assuredly will.

And it's not like those things individually are bad. They aren't. It's fine that she can fly. Or fight. Or know the falcon. Or even understand Wookiee/droid. It's just death from a thousand cuts. A single character can only do so much before it ends up being ridiculous. What's her character flaw? Aw, she misses mommy and daddy. How... disappointing.

There is nothing Rey could do in Episode 9 that wouldn't surprise me. Even space Jesus, Anakin Skywalker, wasn't this OP. She could literally fly around and destroy everything by herself, and it would fit in perfectly with her progression so far.

 

So... it's all right for me to say I really, really dislike The last Jedi, right?

I went in with 'hope for the best'. I really wanted to like it... but when Luke took Anakin's lightsaber and tossed it over his shoulder, like from a damned parody, my hopes sank faster than a block of lead in water.

And it kept sinking, and sinking, and sinking...

I want my Thrawn trilogy onscreen. I want my Rogue/Wraith Squadron TV show. I want my JJK/YJK animated series! I don't give kriff one what Disney does, now. The well's poisoned.

 

That's exactly what I say to people who call me whiny, or an impossible-to-please malcontent: Do you think I walked into The Last Jedi WANTING to have a bad time? People act like it is our fault or something. Of course I wanted to like it. We all wanted to like it.

 

You asked for it.

Rey: "Right now, I feel I could take on the whole FO myself"
Poe: "I know what you mean"
Rey: "Well, you don't, how could you. But no, I'm serious, just me...on my own"

 

And it would IMO even be a smart business model. Disney owns everything, including stuff under the Legends banner. So why not make content for that audience? At least try and see how the response is. Make their new canon for whomever and make Legends stuff for an audience that is there for it.

They are planning on getting their own streaming channel off the ground, plenty of room for an animated or TV show like you said. And even on the bigscreen. Do two movies a year, one is Legends, one is new stuff.

What, too confusing? Hahahaha. I had to explain to my friend how the episode 7 - anthology - episode 8 - anthology - episode 9 model worked. There were enough people who went into Rogue One and were confused because "Rey" looked a bit different now. I mean she was still a British brunette but slightly different.

With the right marketing you could easily make it an event "timeline 1" and "timeline 2". Everyone and their dog is trying to get a cinematic universe off the ground these days. Only the MCU is really successful, the Dark Universe is dead after one movie on the other hand. The DCEU is on life support. But yeah, all the studios are trying it. Why not differentiate yourself by going "we are not only doing a cinematic universe, we are doing parallel timelines". Noone has attempted that before, not even the powerhouse MCU.

 

This is what just sends my over when its suggested how fresh TLJ is. To me its a more blatant rip off of ESB than TFA is of ANH. Of cause a little ROTJ is thrown in as well which results in a complete absence of any original ideas. Learning something about that dam first Jedi temple would have added some originality instead of the Canto Bight detour.

 

Some of the visuals are fresh. The iconoclastic middle finger aspect of it is fresh. That's not a good thing, but it is different. I've never seen a non-comedy actively make fun of itself -- or the other films in the series -- the way TLJ does.

 

I think that describes the entire ST. It's just the OT with a different set of visuals or a fresh coat of paint. But ultimately the story and characters are largely the same. Rey's arc is to become a Jedi. Kylo's is to find redemption somehow. And Finn's is to become a member of the Rebellion/Resistance. Han and Luke's are to die like the mentor figures before them. And the larger story is the defeat of the Neo-Empire. There is a lot of original visuals, but once you look beyond that it's just the OT repackaged.