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Discussion The Sanctuary - (Dissenters Unite! - Warning on page 232)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by BretHart, Dec 13, 2017.

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  1. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014

    Exactly! Plus:

    according to an interview with Metro.

    “What I wish is that [Disney] had been more accepting of [Lucas'] guidance and advice," Hamill told Metro. "Because he had an outline for ‘7,’ ‘8,’ and ‘9’. And it is vastly different to what they have done.”

    I mean really they could have followed the outline Lucas intended. And indeed simply CONTINUING, rather than retelling the OT would have been what should have been done. The story is what would have defined and sold the ST.

    I liked the idea of an Empire seeking Luke out to lead them. Certainly a new Jedi order without the dogmatic ways of the old. And a Jedi disassociating itself from any possible reemergence of a corrupt Republic - either through acting separately, or by not being apathetic and acting. Perhaps the Plageuis idea could work, the Knights of Ren being more like a League of Shadows, seduced to the dark owing to their willingness to do more with their Jedi powers.

    I can't believe they opted for what they did which doesn't appear to continue the story and doesn't make much sense?!

    Yes I was just suggesting some scenarios/actors/actresses who would work well.

    I also thought something from Luke to explain him searching for the Jedi Temple, why it's part of the story, would be helpful. Not to mention maybe him being down because either he himself felt a pull to the dark, or else lost his wife and thought he lost his daughter. We should really see way more exposition of the galactic set up and also flashbacks of the "Return" of the Jedi Order to the galaxy.

    "Once I had a wife, my great love. She was taken from me. Like you, I was forced to learn that there are those without decency that must be fought without hesitation, without mercy."

    "Only the Jedi can save us. Only your skills and powers! Now you have taught me, I can fight them!"

    "Your training and skills are nothing! Without will! The will to act!"

     
  2. JamieH

    JamieH Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Yes, that is what it is. So, get rid of the mask that hides the scar, and then just magically move the scar and de-emphasize it to the point that it is irrelevant.

    This wouldn't really bother me if the movie had been awesome. In the wake of everything that happened, it is just another sign of RJ feeling like he could just ignore everything that came before him.
     
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  3. Elizabeth Mattos

    Elizabeth Mattos Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2018
    Wtf does this even mean.

    And "bad decisions"? Kylo Ren didn't max out his credit card, he's a mass murderer and complicit in the destruction of entire planets. What the hell.
     
  4. kalzeth

    kalzeth Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 26, 2017
    I don’t know if you all read of the BS leaks on Reddit that came out the two weeks before the premier but they were so much better than the real movie.

    Dark luke
    Luke is snoke
    Quest for artifacts of the Jedi to bear the FO

    I really wish they had been real. They kept true to the originals but had interesting twists based on character evolution. WTH were all the powers that be thinking?

    The scar thing. Sigh. Unreal


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. Harbour

    Harbour Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 15, 2015
    Damn, that fake about Kylo's lightsaber turning white when he throw away the Dark Side, and Luke's searching for an artifacts to bring down Snoke was so cool and believable. Id watch that movie for the 10 times.
     
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  6. Tycalibur

    Tycalibur Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2001
    "This is not going to go...the way you THINK."

    Okay, that's fine, I can dig a director wanting to do his/her own 'thang, but would it have been too much to ask to come up with an idea at least AS good as the fan theories?
     
  7. SatineNaberrie

    SatineNaberrie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 28, 2014
    I don't like the Luke as Snoke theory.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  8. sls062286

    sls062286 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2016
    I wouldn't say I like it, but it'd be more engaging and interesting than what we got. Rian couldn't think of a good reason for Luke to leave, so he just said he was just too sad about what happened and thought he would make things worse. Honestly Rian chose pretty much the default explanation for everything, Luke being on the island, Rey being purposely left by awful parents, pretty much the first thing anyone could have thought of. I mean he had all these other options, it just shows lack of creativity, then uses the excuse that its all meta.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  9. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Rian: Lol "your Snoke theory sucks" Look at how clever and edgy I am for making fun of my fan base speculating!

    Well at least your fan base bothered speculating at all you pompous pr***. Honestly they put more effort into the damn story than you did.
     
  10. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2014
    It's quite long, but they're saying a lot of interesting stuff:

     
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  11. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
  12. Darth Vain

    Darth Vain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2016
    Was the whole Canto Bight excursion from the start written purely to set up the Luke Kylo confrontation and also so the numbers of the resistance could be cut down to fit in the MF. Think about it. If it had been successful everyone gets away and there would be no encounter at the end. Rose and Finn messing up by trusting a complete stranger were responsible for those transports getting blown up but were a success from the writers point of view as it suited their monstrous contrivance. Am I being unfair are there other films in the series that can be dissected like this. It was just the whole pointlessness of the whole Canto Bight diversion that set me thinking down this path.
     
  13. La Calavera

    La Calavera Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Since you read the novel, allow me to ask your opinion on whether this post is an accurate assessment of Finn/Rose dynamics in the novel?

    Because I'm still debating on whether I should give this novel a try (mostly because it's written by Jason Fry) but damn, the Finn/Rose stuff sounds like something that would anger me immensely.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
    kalzeth, Jedi Jessy and Jedi Ben like this.
  14. Dame sans merci

    Dame sans merci Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2016
    The way they treated Rose's jealousy towards Rey made me so angry I actually felt light-headed at one point. It is just peak male-author-cannot-write-positive-female-relationships and really soured me on the book (which is a shame, as there's really a lot to like about it).

    Seriously, Jason Fry.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. sls062286

    sls062286 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2016
    Seriously? Rose was jealous of Rey? That makes zero sense. The only way it makes sense is if you think that all women are secretly jealous of each other by default. We have two prominent female characters in a Star Wars movie for the first time, way to ruin a golden opportunity to write a really good friendship between them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  16. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Yeah why did they have to do the most predictable thing possible, and most annoyingly cliché as well, with that? I mean I thought that Rose was a terribly-written and conceived character already. But this makes it even worse imo.
     
  17. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    I have to admit to, well, I wasn't skim reading, but I didn't hang around on the Finn - Rose stuff. It didn't work for me for me in the film and it doesn't here. I did pick up bits of it, like Rose telling Fin that Rey's on her path, which is code for: She don't give a crap about, but I'm here.

    If anything TLJ's dubious gender dynamics come across worse in print - Rey not acceptiong Luke's refusal to train her - just flip the genders around in that and it looks hella dodgy.

    If you like everything else they've been doing in the new material in other eras, the drawing of connections and are interested in the wider story and you can get it cheap - I got it for £13.60 - there's just about enough good stuff here, but.... Chances are that stuff will get developed in dedicated books and then this isn't needed.
     
  18. Dame sans merci

    Dame sans merci Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2016
    Yep. And it's not just a couple of times. It crops up again and again.

    As you say, it's been a rarity in SW to actually have the possibility of female friendships (although I really like the little we've seen of Leia and Holdo's relationship over the years). It's so frustrating to see them go for such a boring, offensive cliche and make it competitive.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  19. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2014
    Ironically, we thought that the real leaks were fake at first, because of how unbelievable they sounded.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
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  20. JDN21

    JDN21 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2004
    The ‘It’s not going to go the way you think’ line wasn’t a self-aware message to the audience was it?

    Maybe they gave the audience too much credit, thinking there’s no way they’d just do a replica of the ROTJ throne room scene.
     
  21. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2014
    Rian presented his story and script not only to KK but the entire Disney board. The question is: Did they actually go through with the mental gymnastics or did they just go "Who cares? It's Star Wars."? I think I know the answer. ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  22. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    What?

    What??

    WHAT???

    Sounds awful.

    :rolleyes:
     
  23. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2016
    IIRC there was stuff in the script about Rose being jealous of Rey, it was cut from the movie or later script. So the novelization is true to the what was written but not in the final cut.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  24. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Rose with jealous because of Rey doesn't make sense... She just met Finn 2 minutes ago and she never saw Rey. FoD comic made me think Rose was a sweet person who cares about others people but this Rose is terrible written and "women hating each other" isn't a good thing

    Lucasfilm probably think they are brilliant for having these ideas
    [​IMG]
     
  25. La Calavera

    La Calavera Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the jealously thing come from Rian? I vaguely remember reading somewhere that was in the deleted scenes (which, if true, yikes).

    It sounds like this only paints Rose as an unhealthy, possessive character, which makes her last scene where crashes into Finn’s ship because she “loves” him, doesn’t allow him to make his sacrifice choice and risks everyone’s lives in the act, calls him “dummy” for not seeing her “right” to save him, and slaps a seemingly non-consensual kiss on him – and it’s portrayed as heroic – all the more tone deaf.

    Yeah, that is, in sum, TLJ. A movie that constantly pits women and men against each other. It’s also noticeable to me that RJ seems to be unable to write a dynamic that is not boy-girl, as he himself stated in an interview that he couldn’t write a Finn/Poe adventure (freaking seriously? Even I could write that).

    Compare that to Black Panther, a movie that not only showed a far more positive outlook of gender dynamics where men and women supported, respected and protected each other, it also portrayed same-gender dynamics in a far more compelling and inspiring way than anything done in TLJ.

    Heck, we don't need a modern movie to show us that. Just look at the OT. Han, Luke and Leia have a far healthier relationship with each other despite there being a love triangle going on in the beginning. Luke also has a much, much better and respectful relationship with his masters.

    You know what? I'll go even further - AOTC has its problems, but you still don't see Anakin being written as insanely jealous of Padme's ex-boyfriend. They talk about Palo and guess what, they talk about it like normal people.

    Really don't understand why writers feel the need to portray women as jealous and super competitive against each other for a man.
     
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