ST The Sanctuary - (Dissenters Unite! - Warning on page 232)

Rey's worse than the Matrix. Neo still had to train and hone the skills he had downloaded.

 

Putting the Skywalkers in the background is so easy we got Rogue One, a movie where the only Skywalkers are 2 scenes of Vader, and a final scene with Leia.

TLJ has more Skywalker than that, with Luke and Kylo's arc driving everything Rey does in the movie. R1 showed how trivial it was to do an SW movie without a Skywalker focus.

And what difference does it make having a non-skywalker Jedi order? I have absolutely zero doubt Rey's 'new order' will be in no way distinguishable from the Jedi we've seen before.

 

Ugh...it's happening again. I think I'm turning on this movie. First time I saw it was I was disappointed in Rey Random and Luke dying. Then I accepted the movie for what it was, saw it again and loved it. Then I came across some ReySky theories that got me back on the ReySky train and kinda soured me on Rey Random. Now I'm back to thinking Rey really is a random except now I'm not on board with that.

Kylo Ren seems to be right about her. She doesn't have a part in the story. Well she does but it's because Ben fell to the dark side and the Force had to counteract that so the Force drafted Rey. In that regard the only reason Rey got roped into this story is because of Kylo. That sounds a heck of a lot like Rey being defined by Kylo which is kinda screwed up. And now we've got confirmation that Rey and Kylo are attracted to each other, (which admittedly I picked up the first time I saw the film). Still that's pretty screwed up. Topping it all off we've got the OT cast dead and largely failing to succeed in the aftermath of ROTJ and the last Skywalker/Solo is an evil dude hell bent on destruction. What a massive bummer.

 

Well, exactly. The pubic responded to the content, regardless of knowing the outcome. That's 100% my point. RO's story plays no real importance in the overall story trajectory of the saga, and the outcome was already known by anyone who has seen the original Star Wars. Which proves, just like with all successful prequels, many people just don't care about what the outcome will be in another film down the line.

This is exactly what'll happen whenever they release films set between ROTJ and TFA. If the films are strong, few will skip out on seeing it because Han, Luke and Leia die at much older ages sometime down the line.

 

I have no idea how Kylo Ren and Snoke are different than the Sith at this point. They walk like ducks, quack like ducks, but people keep telling me they're not ducks.

 

They never were different.

 

And the FO isn't the Empire...

 

We were always at war with Eurasia...

 

There is no "they" with Wiki. Anybody can update that. Right now you, me, anyone here can edit that section.

 

Wikis are decided by consensus. If there was previously a consensus against having such a section, that would have been blocked. I have no idea how that page has been operating.

 

For me it`s not that they died but that with the ST I consider each of them losers and failures. If I take TLJ as canon, I feel like I wasted my time in the OT with these characters. Because if THAT is what they turn up as? Hard no on any part of their lives.

The only way I can enjoy the OT now is to banish TLJ into the realm of "dark AU that I do not take as canon". Which is easier because it`s Disney and no longer Lucas.

Granted, I could take "prequel" movies on their own and still ignore the ST but what are the chances we don`t get that same loserdom creeping into those stories? With Disney, I`m not optimistic.

And that`s why I want to throw this character into the Sarlacc pit.

That`s like someone showing up to your house with a puppy and going "here, you can have this cute young puppy, certainly now you`ll happily shoot your old dog because that thing needs to go". Not how it works with characters I`ve loved a lot longer and a lot more than I liked Rey. And I did like her in TFA but now? Nope.

 

I stayed away for three months and finally fell back down the rabbit hole. I'm mad and heartbroken all over again. And it looks like we found Rian Johnson's username:
@jamminjedi23

 

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree that the company behind the two biggest films of 2017, and the current biggest film on planet Earth don't know how to sell films.

 

Yeah I think I need to take a Star Wars break.

 

Yes, every article has a "talk page" where people decide what to put into the article and what not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Star_Wars:_The_Last_Jedi

There is a grading system for the articles, and the more important an article is, the more it is regulated. Plus, there is a hierarchy among users. The whole "anyone can edit anything" schtick is only true in theory.

 

I couldn't stop laughing at this gif. I shall watch AOTC with great interest when I rewatch it from now on!

I think that Jyn and Cassian interaction is some of the best emotional resonance in a Star Wars film. That and of course Han and Leia's "I know's".

ST feels like too many forced moments. It's almost like you half expect a character to say, "That's what she said!" half the time.

There has been an awakening. Have you felt it?.....That's what she said!

I laughed at this a lot!

Help us George Lucas...you're our only hope!

Yes I mean one wonders whether RJ has seen:
1. "I know" - Han and Leia
2. Han and Leia kiss on the Falcon
3. Han and Leia banter
4. Anakin and Padme during the talk on sand (the touching)
5. Anakin and Padme in that dress (hot damn) near the fireplace
6. Anakin and Padme kiss before the Arena on Geonosis (powerful music backing the scene up)
7. Jyn and Cassian after the transmission is sent


Basically has he seen any Star Wars movie?

I actually think AOTC has a great story in the background. What is needed is perhaps some fine tuning of its dialogue (the romance scenes). Then you actually have a pretty good thriller (political and conspiracy wise).

I think the Arena kiss (just before they enter) works very well. With John Williams beautiful score in the background. The fireplace scene, and sand scene, in themselves could work, but the sand line needs to be anything but sand. In fact in TLJ, I didn't even understand why did that guy talk about salt randomly? I half expected his comrades to say stop talking about salt, it made them uncomfortable.

I think TLJ didn't act as a sequel to the first sequel, and both don't act properly as sequels. They seem to be stand alone films of their own.

Romantically I find it laughable though that the OT and even the PT (admittedly more chat up line, than suave) cover intimacy less than the ST. Where is the romantic fantasy in the ST?

I think they missed a beat in TFA by not having Han and Leia have one more "I know" moment.

I thought we needed more R2D2, C3PO and BB8 together and doing things. I agree I LOVED K2 in Rogue One. Legendary.

Sadly it seems that Rey, Finn and Phasma are the writer's focus. Even though they don't fit into a plot. I feel like R2 was badly handled in this film.

As in Episodes 10 to 12? I also feel like the way it has gone, it really doesn't feel like there is any story or way to wrap this up. I am not sure WHAT the ARC is here?

But sadly it feels like there is no explanation of a transition from the galaxy we see in ROTJ (or the PT galaxy) to what we see now. As in the Empire is where? Where are the new Jedi (Pass on what you have learnt)??

So many flashbacks are going to be needed. Literally nothing is explained. I doubt Lucas would have had these "retro" films versus a cohesive story that actually CONTINUED the saga and concluded it??

I actually feel like had Luke gone dark and been the mysterious warrior, it might have made more sense and had a deep story. Imagine the Master taught Jedi pupils, then became lost in himself. Thinking that was following in his father's footsteps.

I am still amazed we have not seen Obi Wan, Yoda, or Anakin in TFA. Even Yoda felt under-utilised in TLJ.

I still feel that TFA is a jarring jump across time with no explanation if you watch it straight after ROTJ. If you watch TPM to ROTJ, it all flows. But then watch TFA and TLJ, and it feels disjointed. Like you just switched books?

THIS. Precisely. I have a sneaky suspicion that this may have been what Lucas had intended?

And I still feel that the Tragedy of Darth Plageuis the Wise was not an accident. Perhaps to allow for "unfinished business" to be settled in the ST.

So many avenues could be explored - Leia and Luke. Who would resist the dark. Imagine if Luke had gone dark and been the dark robed figure. Leia leading the Light. Or a situation where the Galactic Empire after ROTJ seek out a Skywalker to be their heir as Vader's offspring. The temptation taken.

I still don't like how unlike with the PT/OT, where everything logically flows, as one story (the Force flows through it), the ST is a jarring experience. Watching ROTJ then TFA, and I have no idea what just happened. Where is the Empire? The new Jedi Order? What is going on and who are the New Republic and First Order??

Who is Snoke??

I am sad to say I think you're right. If they were, any information should have been covered ON SCREEN. Not in off screen material. With the PT and OT, one didn't need to refer to supplementary paragraph C in some obscure comic. You understood everything and the movies were their own universe with a grand epic story as one cohesive flowing saga.

I think the opportunity was there in TFA to have flashbacks and explanation much like how Batman Begins set up that trilogy. You could easily have shown us flashbacks of what happened to the Empire, Luke starting his Jedi Order, a left over darkness (cough Darth Plageuis the Wise) materialising to take advantage of the temporary chaos. WHY oh why Ben was seduced to the dark. The Jedi Temple etc.

Basically all the exposition needed to set up the universe we now see so we understand it. And utilise the OT cast to the fullest. Basically have a story which is what I'm sure Lucas intended. Not a retro script to redo the OT films?!

The ST films were meant to continue the saga and conclude it, not destroy it.

These are visually spectacular, but lacking in story. Only a shadow of what they could have been. And ironically will make only a shadow of what money they could have made.

I personally wanted to see the explanation of "what happened" between ROTJ and TFA in TFA and TLJ. Flashbacks. (Like Batman Begins does to set everything up). And I really really doubt that Lucas' original ST had the characters destroyed and random new characters being invincible. It's not his nature. He focuses on story and logical progression of the galactic status quo (Republic to Empire etc) and of character development (e.g. Han from selfish rogue to a selfless hero, Luke from a farm boy looking at the stars, to reckless youth to compassionate and noble Jedi Knight).

I thin the failing is that they changed the story. Like that Old Republic game trailer somewhere, there is a quote. "You were deceived."

This is what happened. I really am left stunned. Because when I watch Episode 4 to 6, or 1 to 6, and then 7 and 8, I feel like I just switched film franchise randomly. It doesn't feel right. I feel cold.

It was like the new writing team had the Force with them (all the resources of Lucasfilm), but they could not control them, they had no idea of the responsibility that came with that power. And they destroyed the very thing they once swore to protect.

Then Rey should have been a character in a STAND ALONE movie. If she is here, she has to be Rey SKYWALKER in a saga about that family. It's like the new writers haven't grasped what the main saga was about?!

Yes, C3PO was fluent in over 6 million forms of communication. But then came Rey, fluent in over 6 billion. She only needs to see a species to speak their language. Poor C3PO was forced to sell his own limbs to raise money to survive.
R2D2 was the hero of the galaxy. He went on several tours post ROTJ telling excited youth across the stars of his great feats and how he was in many battles. How it was tricky, and he fell into swamps, got many loose wire jokes thrown at him, but he overcame the odds and saved many lives. Then came Rey, who could fix EVERYTHING, with no engineering expertise. He was forced to fall asleep for many years and retire when people now wanted to buy Rey's rather than R2 units.

Han Solo was once one of the most skilled pilots in the galaxy, save for a Jedi. He did the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs. Then along came Rey, who at some point will show that it can be done in just 1 parsec by her of course. Chewbacca, First Mate on the Falcon, once a hero in the Rebellion, has derogatory remarks thrown at him by this insolent scavenger, even after saving her from an imploding planet.

The Jedi Knights, once guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy. The Sith, who believed that the Jedi were too dogmatic and the Force should be studied in all its forms. Both orders trained generations of Force sensitive users in the ways of the Force. How to control it. What it was. How to use that power. Over perhaps many months, and often years, perhaps even a lifetime, one was able to become a great Jedi Knight, or powerful Sith Lord. Then along came Rey and suddenly you didn't need to even have heard of the Force before. Because it's like breathing. It just happens. Never heard of a mind trick? Doesn't matter. You can do it now! never used a lightsaber and fought before? Doesn't matter! Never been able to lift things with your mind? Training you say? Hogwash! You can do it right now!

Often a highly seasoned Jedi Master or Sith Lord would fend off an untrained reckless youth with ease. Count Dooku a young Anakin. Yoda a complacent Dooku. But Luke Skywalker, the last of the great Jedi, most powerful user in the galaxy, was beaten by guess who, Rey random! What??

I cannot believe how they think Rey is a character. She's just this fixed thing in the sequels which the story has to be written around (if you can call it a story arc). It makes no sense. No pain, no gain. No part in the story. It's like Anakin in TPM just randomly wakes up one day, never heard of the Force, lifts things and collapses the stadium onto the Hutts. He then steals a random freighter from the spaceport, journeys to Naboo, kills Darth Maul with a stick. Journeys to Coruscant, where he mind reads that Senator Palpatine is the Sith Lord they were looking for (not knowing what a Sith Lord or the Force is), then he counters Palpatine's lightning, by catching it in his hands, because he just thought about it, without ever having heard of the Force. He then kills Palpatine.

But Rogue One worked well because it was an anthology film. The main saga is about the Skywalker family. And in a 9 episodes saga, how can you have the main protagonist not be a Skywalker??

It's insane.

And for those new writers who say Star Wars doesn't/didn't have strong female characters and only Rey is one. They should watch them again. They do:









All of these characters on the movie screen had more development, failures, and successes and fit into a story. They actually were strong characters!?

 

And the Resistance isn't the Rebellion... But Kylo called them "rebels" and Luke mentioned a new Rebellion...

 

And Finn called himself Rebel scum. This is actually the second time I get the feeling that the Finn character has watched the OT. Even though this shouldn't be possible because he is fictional and Star Wars is a film series in the real world.

 

It feels like there were certain words that RJ just wanted in the movie ‘just because’ and Rebels/Rebellion is among them. Luke with the blue saber. Kylo picked up dice that aren’t really there. Yoda acting like silly Yoda and starting a fire.

No reason for any of this. Just because.

 

Yeah, in addition to characters behaving as though they've read the script for TLJ, it seems sometimes the new characters have read the script for the previous Star Wars movies as well that they were not involved in. The self-awareness is killing Star Wars and making it impossible to treat seriously or immerse yourself in, and at times it feels like the writer/director is standing next to you occasionally teasing elbowing you in the stomach like he's in on the whole enterprise being a big joke. There's moments where the cliche 'record scratch' can literally be dubbed in.

 

Right. Optimus Prime was killed off to "sell more toys". Instead, killing him killed off the entire Transformers product line. They tried to bring him back, but it was too late. Part of the problem was that they did a giant time jump into the future and all the new vehicles were sci-fi stuff that no longer looked like 80's vehicles, but also, the new Autobot leader was an unlikeable arrogant punk that no one wanted to root for.

There is a reason Peter Cullen was brought back for the movies. His voice was iconic to the Transformers. Without him, the heart and soul of the franchise was gone.

 

This reminds me of the development discussions for Crystal Skull:
Lucas: Let's do aliens.
Spielberg: I don't want to do aliens! I've done E.T and Close Encounters.
Lucas: Ok, we won't do aliens.
Spielberg: Thank you, George! I love you!
Lucas: Let's do inter-dimensional beings.
Spielberg: Okay, what will they look like?
Lucas: They'll look like aliens.

 

To those saying Lucas should have made the sequel trilogy in the 90s it never would have happened. First he had always planned to make the prequels next. Second, Harrison Ford was super expensive. Like $20 mill per movie expensive. Even if George convinced him to come back to a role he never loved it would have been very hard to make the cost effective budget Lucas made these movies for. His only option would have been to write Han Solo out of the story which no doubt would rub many fans off the wrong way.

 

In other words, do it right or don't do it.

 

re: Eps 10-12

The thinking is that Ep 9 simply has too much to do to successfully wrap the story up, thus new trilogy by stealth.