ST The Sanctuary - (Dissenters Unite! - Warning on page 232)

I don't believe this. First I tried to reply to @Bor Mullet, then it double-posted, then I deleted one, then the other disappeared too. So, for posterity, this is the vanished post to which his #16050 is a reply.

 

Hmm, actor has talent, signs up for SW picture, comes across as crap on screen....

I know, it's the ST homage to Lucas' directing style!

 

Ah, indeed. I suppose I, too, am a dissenter of dissenters if I say that I really didn't think his performance was particularly good? Or bad, either- I don't mean he isn't actually a good actor, I just don't think that rôle would give the greatest thespian alive much to chew on (other than the scenary). We're talking about a character with the emotional range of an alarm clock.

 

Given my sister and nephew actually liked that mess I assumed they gave the literal performance of a lifetime to pull that off!
I just wish they paid more attention to Rian's script than they did to the Solo directors whose film is nowhere near as important as episode 8 was!

 

@Hopeless. Well, there's plenty of people who say Driver did "give the performance of a lifetime". I honestly just don't get it. Again, not that he's bad, he's just playing a character who only seems to have two emotional states- three if "blank" counts. I can only assume it's somewhere in that blankness- as it looks to me- that others are seeing subtlety and nuance. They would probably say I'm wilfully blind; I would say they're seeing something not actually there. Who knows?

 

I don't really have a problem with most of the acting in TLJ. Driver, Ridley, Boyega, Isaac, Hamille, etc they're all giving fine performances. But the writing doesn't measure up to their acting unfortunately imo.

Heck even Domhnall Gleeson is giving a fine performance for the type of character that he's playing. But the writing lets even him down in the end.

 

I honestly don’t get it either. The raving about how conflicted Kylo is - yeah, I don’t see it. He’s a monotone blank. How is he Han and Leia’s child? He’s nothing like them. TFA was the only thing I’ve seen Driver in and I do not understand why he got the role or what he brings to it. I’m supposed to study his “micro expressions” or something. There’s no there there.

 

I think Adam is doing a great job. From acting performance he is my favorite of the ST.

Sure, but without Kylo and Adams performance TLJ would be ....

 

I thought Driver was great in TFA. The scene with Han on the bridge of the Starkiller base was brilliant, the conflict he was feeling was completely believable to me. TLJ was a completely different story however, but i'm not going to blame Driver for the absolute schlock he had to work with.

 

I really hope so. But more importantly, I hope that TLJ has long-term consequences for LFL at the box office, with their other movies.

 

Yeah, I think this is the issue for me. If I were already inclined to feel sympathetic towards Kylo, then I could see how I'd find Driver's performance to be amazing. But I'm not, and so I don't connect with it the way many others do.

However to be fair, the "quality" of the performances has never really been a big deal to me in Star Wars. The appeal of the cast, especially the OT, was driven by the actors' charisma and chemistry. And I think the ST cast is fine in that respect.

 

How can we objectively judge “importance” here? As a major Star Wars fan from its inception, I actually find the Anthology films to hold the most creative potential, and so they are more important - to me - than the ST. Let’s not make categorical imperatives out of personal opinions.

 

I am talking more about TLJ. In the previous film I did feel there was a hint of "something" going on with this character that I just can't see this time around- even though TLJ was the film that was supposed to "humanise" Kylo etc. But I do want to repeat that I'm not saying Driver's performance was bad, at all, I just don't think the writing gave him much scope.

 

Yeah, Kylo Ren is a boring character. There is nothing to him. They're relying on him being a Solo as though that's enough to validate him as a character.

It is clear that he wants to be an all-powerful Sith - he has proven this time and again over two movies. There appeared to be (a bit) more conflict in him in TFA, but he put paid to that by killing Han. He's now just one-dimensional, poor man's Vader.

 

I agree, especially with Domhnall Gleeson.

I loved his character and performance in TFA. Yes he was a bit caricature-ish, but there were layers there in Hux’s personality with his interactions with Kylo, his methods and the way the actor delivered that Hitlerian speech. Over the top, but in a very entertaining and mesmerizing way. He was portrayed as relatively more competent than the rest, less bogged down by self-serving emotional needs, albeit still young and passionate in his fanaticism. He was a nice contrast to Kylo, and one of my favorite parts of TFA is when those two are arguing about how to deal with the invasion in Takodana with Kylo not wanting the droid harmed, and Hux just decides to summarily ignore him and bombard the whole thing. And then later he blames Kylo for losing the droid.

TLJ then just turned Hux into a bumbling comic relief in very uninteresting displays of Saturday morning cartoon villain that falls for the stupidest and oldest jokes, and gets constantly humiliated by Snoke and Kylo. It was rather irritating to watch. He used to own his game in TFA.

I’ll give it to JJ Abrams: he does know how to write charismatic characters and masterfully direct actor’s performances and give a sense of nuance even when they fall into one-note stereotypes. It took me TLJ to realize that that is an actual skill, an art in itself and Rian Johnson... he is not just very good with it. I said it before, I think Kylo Ren only stands out in TLJ because every one else is either irritating or dull, but his character is not much different than how he was in TFA, only he spends more time sulking and quivering his lip in TLJ. But everyone else, geez. Finn was probably the worst offender. All the complaints I think I had with Finn in TFA pales in comparison to his portrayal in TLJ, despite him having a similar character arc. He is just so dull and feels so insignificant in TLJ. In TFA he was still a magnet of charisma and fun.

 

I've seen a couple of Driver's other shows and films. In Logan Lucky he is very much the same as I found him in TFA or TLJ, monotone and blank facial expressions. In What If, he reminded me of someone you'd just be having a regular conversation/familiar friendship with- not much required for that role really by way of conveying complex character emotions. I tried watching Girls, the HBO show he was in, and didn't care for any of the characters or their storylines. It's funny though because I felt his character in that show, from what I watched, would have said the same thing ("you're no one") because he is very self centered and narcissistic.

 

I've only seen Adam Driver in Star Wars and Logan Lucky. As much as I liked Logan Lucky, his character is very blank as Wobbits says. He supported Channing Tatum's character, who also played a character who didn't emote much, but I felt more of a connection to Tatum's character, as though he offered more depth to the same style of character. That's not a ringing endorsement of Adam Driver. But to be fair, I should watch him in something else to see if ha has a bit more range.

 

I haven't watched Driver in anything before Star Wars. And as many gripes I have with the ST and especially TLJ, the actual performances are lower on the list.

 

I would, but I can't find the original post to credit the quote to the right person. How's this?

Good point. I think it says more about KK, and possibly RJ than anything that they think this is how you lead people. Superiors who look down at subordinates and demand they shut up and obey is more akin to how the Empire operated in the original films than the Rebels. In fact, you could easily see Darth Vader saying most of Holdo's lines to Poe.

 

He was in at least one film I enjoyed. He played a 17th century Jesuit priest (yes, really) who travels to Japan when Christians were heavily prosecuted in a movie called Silence. I thought both he and Andrew Garfield were good, despite their awkward Italian accents.
He was also in a movie called The F Word or What If (two titles is a bad thing) with Daniel Radcliff and Zoe Kazan. Only watch it if you want to be annoyed by constant "witty" and "ironic" bantering. Other than Zoe Kazan being super cute, the film was pure torture.

 

I haven`t seen Adam Driver in anything else either and acting-wise, I really like his work in the ST. The problem is more with the writing, especially the constant hammering how deep that character is. And I think he isn`t when all is said and done. At 30 years old, you can`t pull off "troubled teen" writing anymore. If an adult is troubled, it needs to be written in other ways.

Basically what his entire character seems to boil down to is "I want it". The "it" can be various things here: power, prestige, revenge, respect, love. His impetus is just that "he wants". Though the kicker is, he doesn`t really seem to know WHAT the hell he wants.

For example why does he want Rey? It seems entirely based on "my lightside mirror in the force". Her personality doesn`t appeal to him, he doesn`t even know or see her. She is his "equal" (lets be honest: better) and therefore he wants her. If she lost the force tomorrow and he got another lightside equal in a cute girl, he would immediately want that girl.

Han liked Leia because she was feisty, strong and brave. Leia liked Han because she felt drawn to his roguish side while still seeing he was caring and brave. It was obvious that he wouldn`t be attracted to a simpering damsel and she wouldn`t be to a callous selfish person. Anakin liked Padme because she was brave and kind. She was initially drawn to him because she considered him a good, heroic person with some troubles.

Neither of these people would have liked any person of the opposite sex, regardless of personality, just on account of "yay, the force seems to have grouped us together...and hey, you are not physically repulsive". What appeals to Kylo and Rey about each other`s personalities? For that to even happen, they would have gotten to know each other`s personalities. That they didn`t is shown when they completely project their own wish fulfillment onto the other.

Even Anakin, as deluded as he was, did KNOW that Padme wouldn`t be pleased with his darkside switch and especially the youngling slaughter. He kept denying that part to her. If Kylo over the course of their oh-so-emotionally-bonding Skype sessions had bothered to see Rey as a person and gotten to know her, he would have realized she would expect him to save the Resistance and not react favourably to a "no".

Kylo also doesn`t want to be pushed around by Snoke. Well, duh. He shared that with Hux. But does he want power and to rule the FO? Not particularly. I felt his reaction to getting it was decidedly meh. He says he wants to burn everything down but doesn`t say what he plans to do in its stead. I knew why Anaking wanted to rule, wanted more power and what for. What he planned to do with it. I can pretty easily imagine what an Empire ruled by him would look like. I could just as easily also imagine what an Empire ruled by Vader would look like. The two wouldn`t be that far apart, other than Vader being colder and crueler.

Kylo? No idea. We never learn anything about him to make even an educated guess. Okay, yes, he throws tantrums. But what are his larger ideas for the galaxy or even the force? Heck, for himself? The character`s motivations are so vaguely written, he can`t know his own mind. After all, if the writer doesn`t, how can the character?

The only actual emotional response that made sense to me was his hatred of Luke. At least I could see why he would feel that way. Kylo was very bitter in their final scene and at least that was genuine and felt logical from his "I`m victimized" perspective.

 

I got 99 problems with this movie, but acting ain't one.

 

We don’t get into the characters’ heads. That’s a major issue for me.

 

That's really the problem with the whole ST. To sound like a hack Method acting teacher - what's their motivation? Why is Rey suddenly off to save Luke, then save Kylo when she knew nothing of the war a week ago? Luke says "It's not like I don't hate the Empire but there's nothing I can do about it right now." Does Rey have any reason to do any of what she's done? She is waiting for her parents - oops, no she wasn't?

Finn, he has a motivation to get away from the First Order but why did he break the brainwashing and flee? Never explained and literally never cared about again. Plus why did they stick that "janitor" stuff on him?

Poe and Leia are committed to stopping the First Order - okay, I can get that. Although none of the politics are explained.

Why does Han go back to smuggling and why is he now awful at it? Because the plot demands it. According to the books, he had a shipping business - what happened? He raced for charity so obviously he and Leia had some sort of big income - what happened? HOW DID HE LOSE THE FALCON? "That's a story for another time."

Kylo - hates his parents because...well, the plot needs him to. So his answer is to kill or turn all Luke's students - but not check to make sure Luke is dead. Go join the space fascists because Snoke...showed up to give him a ride like Palpatine? Who knows? I'm still waiting for an explanation as to how Han and Leia know that he killed the students and became Kylo - there's side materials that no one knew where the academy was? Did Luke leave Artoo with a message? Did the First Order make a propaganda tape about Ben becoming Kylo because if I were running the First Order? That would be on EVERY holonet channel going.

Luke - something something "I failed" - again the story doesn't really care for the gritty details that would make it make sense...so I don't care either.

If I missed the answers to any of these questions, please tell me.