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PT The schism between Anakin and Padme

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by CLee, Feb 23, 2018.

  1. CLee

    CLee Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2017
    Why was Anakin so surprised and angry that Padme was upset at him for killing younglings and wanting to rule the galaxy? Enough to think that she would bring Obi-Wan to kill him and thus choke her?

    Did he fundamentally misunderstand her from early on (AotC) or later on forget or choose to ignore what she was like? Or is it just that since he thought he was betraying the Jedi and turning Dark for her then she would/should join and support him?

    Given how he seems to have greatly misunderstood and misinterpreted her and her character (and was so eager to rule the galaxy), is it possible he really turned Dark to get power for himself rather than in order to save her?
     
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  2. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    No he turned to the dark side to save her. He did have those visions after all. I think he thought due to their love that she would go with him especially because he was doing this all for her in the first place.
     
  3. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
    I dont think he was surprised that she was mad at him for killing younglings. He even tried to deny it one way or another.

    "Obi-Wan is trying to turn you against me."

    I also think in his own twisted view, he thought that she would be happy to rule the galaxy, as her job as a politician was to try and make the galaxy better. She obviously believed in a democratic power, but he believed change can only be achieved through force by the most capable (Padme and him)

    As with the latter question, nope. Anakin's prime motivation was to save Padme before joining the Sith. It was after, as Darth Vader, that he was quenching a thirst for power. The dark side causes a selfish gain of control for one's self. By the time Padme found Anakin on Mustafar, he wasn't the same man he was when he confronted Mace. His original motivation for joining the Sith was gone due to the corruption of the dark side.
     
  4. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Yeah, I think he was planning on getting her on his side first with all his promises of power and perfection, and then breaking the news to her later. In his mind, she was able to overlook his slaughter of the Tusken children, so surely she'd be able to overlook this slaughter as well, with a little cajoling and persuasion.

    Anakin is not in a reality-based state of mind.
     
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  5. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Anakin knows that she would never go along with this. But when she starts talking about Obi-wan, he starts getting angry and he stops thinking clearly.

    "One of the problems of Sith is that they are always quick to anger. This scene with her, it was very important that we set it up to the point where he chokes her as he does with one of the generals in ANH. But at the same time he doesn’t kill her and he just causes her to faint, but you get to see that flash of anger which he now doesn’t have much control over. The whole point in a Jedi is that you can completely control your anger and now he’s at a point where he can't control it at all and it's because of his need for his control for power and he gets very upset when he cant have it. And now he’s assuming that she’s with Obi-Wan, not necessarily in a love relationship or anything, in the basis that they are both on one side of the path and he’s going down the other."

    --George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.


    "This is the first time he actually has a chance to think about what it is that’s happened by himself and the tear here shows that he knows what he’s done but he’s now committed himself a path that he may not agree with, but he is going to go along anyway.

    It’s the one moment that says he’s self aware. He's rationalizing all his behavior. He’s doing terrible things. But in the end he really knows the truth. He knows that he’s evil now and there’s nothing he can do about it and that’s the moment where the pathos of him being stuck in that suit is real, because if he had to do it over he probably wouldn’t do it, but he can't stop it now.

    You know where it's going to lead. He knows it will end with a fight with Obi-Wan. He knows that Padme will not buy into this new reality. He made a pact with the devil and now he’s become the devil.

    The sad thing is Padme says there is still good in him and Luke says in ROTJ there is good in you. It's recurring. There is good in him. And that will bring balance to the Force. He needs to get rid of the Sith and bring balance to the Force."

    --George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  6. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    He was pulled to power regardless but Padme's fate was the thing that he convinced himself to use.

    Was it really for her? In his own mind yes but I doubt it's just that simple.
     
  7. wobbits

    wobbits Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2017
    I don't think he misunderstood her or that he was ignoring what he already knew of her. He was being inundated with dark side power and coming unhinged pretty quickly. I can imagine he felt like she was betraying him when he had done all of this just to save her. "Love can't save you Padme, only my new powers can do that."
     
  8. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I think sadly Anakin's views weren't really in line with Padme's even before he turned.
    It seems indicated in AOTC that his worldview is something that could believably devolve into Vader's quest for ultimate order in the galaxy.

    Seemingly AOTC seems to be written in a way that Anakin and Padme are swept up in the events of the galaxy and their experience together, and aren't really focusing on whether it is ultimately a good idea, or on each other's political opinions, when they get together.

    Padme is much more of a free spirit than Anakin, and I think the realisation dawning on her of this schism, when she sees the choices Anakin has made, are part of the shock that breaks her heart. Padme as a symbol of the Republic is truly at stark contrast to Vader's nature, and it makes sense she would fade as the Republic is swallowed by the Empire and Anakin's intitial desire to help others has ironically helped bring about a Sith choke-hold on the galaxy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  9. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Deep down, he knew she would never go with him after all he had done. That’s why I think the crying scene is so poignant. He know what he’s doing is wrong. He knows Padmé would never forgive him for betraying the Jedi Order and destroying the Republic. His bravado of, “...Together you and I can rule the galaxy, make things the way we want them to be” was just pure, desperate self-delusion that Padmé would be OK with finally calling all the shots and not having to deal with corrupt politicians stonewalling her anymore; that she’d be OK with this so long as she got to decide for the betterment of all the people.

    That’s why he gets furious when she basically tells him, “No. I’m not doing this.” It goes against his self-made fantasy, and the fact she keeps mentioning Obi-Wan, the very symbol of the Jedi Order and the Republic... And then he sees the man himself standing there with his hands on his hips...

    It shows Anakin the very thing he doesn’t want to admit: that he did this, he basically ruined their lives through his own selfish desires. He wasn’t thinking about them and what they wanted. He doesn’t want to admit it, so he lashes out.
     
  10. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    I think it's clear that Padme is actually strangely drawn to Anakin's authoritarian political opinions. She doesn't agree with them intellectually, of course, but the taboo nature of them creates an involuntary attraction for her which is tied up with Anakin's dangerous, bad boy persona. It's the whole forbidden fruit thing, combined with opposites attract. Being with Anakin allows her to let loose and indulge certain impulses she wouldn't feel free to otherwise. You can kind of see the transformation Anakin inspires in her when she parrots Anakin's line about "aggressive negotiations" in the arena. That moment in particular highlights that there's something undeniably fun and freeing about doing things Anakin's way, and so we can understand why even someone as dedicated to diplomacy and democracy as Padme could find herself seduced by Anakin's methods and mindset.

    Padme's attraction to Anakin also serves as an analogue for the democratic Senate's attraction to the authoritarian policies and strongman persona of Palpatine. It's another way the prequels tell essentially the same story on two complementary levels: the personal and the political.
     
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  11. Sara_Kenobi

    Sara_Kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2000
    I think Anakin was all about saving Padme. I think he turned to the dark side in order to save her. After her death, the dark side was all that he had left. I think he allowed it to consume him.
     
  12. bizzbizz

    bizzbizz Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2015
    he turned to the darkside to save the woman he loves and it corrupted him he thought she would be by his side no matter what anakin also has deep loathing for himself at being tricked by palpatine so wants to over throw him and rule the galaxy with his wife in the way he thinks is right. the darkside fed on his fear and ego and was his and padme's undoing
     
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  13. firesaber

    firesaber Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2006
    So you are looking for a logical explanation as to why someone who suffered a psychotic break didn't understand why Padme wasn't going to continue to be his Ride or Die chick?
     
  14. ObiWanKnowsMe

    ObiWanKnowsMe Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Anakin was delusional and had a depraved indifference to reality at that point. Sidious had messed with his mind, and after he chopped off Mace's hand and Sidious killed him -- he realized how bad he screwed up. But at that point he just committed to it.

    He did go to the darkside for her tho
     
  15. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    He was high on the dark side. Like, crazy high.

    Even in a previously irrational state, he was able to realize that Padme "would do her duty" were she in his position.

    I think you raise an interesting question, but my answer is no.
     
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