The Secret of the Vong (Spoilers ? Key to the NJO ?)

Do you have an exact quote ? It's probably in a book I haven't read yet...

 

personally it makes me think of Neo-sapiens. they were a species from a cartoon series called "Exosquad" bassicaly humans attempted to o terroform mars but the climate was too harsh(and they had a MASSIVE human slave revolt leading to a large number of slaves heading for te oputer solar system) So they created a new species called Neo-sapiens. These were intelligent but strong creatures, especially designed for martian climate. They were blue and 7-8 ft tall with 3 digit lims. They were breed in giant tanks, although they weren't really cloned just grown(sound like a vong creche a little?) those from the sae brood were known as brood siblings although they weren't really related. However the neosapiens took to slavery just as well as the humans did and soon revolted against their human masters. teh first revolt was put down but the second was more thought out and with in a few days the Neo-sapiens conquiered not only Earth but also teh only other planet that had been colonized, Venus. The neosapiens then proceeded to repay the huan population for teh many years of mistreatment. Humans were enslaved, tortured, sent into teh sun, and gennerally badly treated. by the 6th ep of teh series the only free huans left were in the exo-fleet and the neospaien fleets quickly beat them into submission. But the fleet was never fully destroyed or captured and slowly thoughout the course of teh series they began to fight back and win. Many main charecters died in the process many were very unpredicatble. Also toward the end the neosapiens to to bioengineering themselves in new attempts to beat the exofleet. First tehy created a subspeices called neomegas, who were geniuses, then dumbed down animal versions, finnaly right before the war ended teh last species neolords(as intelligent as a neomega and as powerful physically as the animal variations) were created but most of that brood was destroyed. It was a long dark cartoon series that frankly is about as close as you'll ever get to seeing teh "X-wing novels on TV". It was a series aimed at an older audience, and delt with many deep issues such as genocide, slavery, hatered, war, and revenge. Unfortunatly it was doomed to a bad timeslot in many areas and so i doubt few people even know of it. although if the vong are like the neosapiens, creatures made for slavery that revolted and destroyed their creators it would make things interesting.

BTW we've yet to get any REAL details on teh reproduction cycle of the vong other than the creche, how long to maturity?, specifics on birth, and upbrining are still up in the air, heck we don't even know if they are grown in some sort of tank like the neosapiens or are birthed mamel style(yes i know their are vong females, but their were also neosapien females, who never had kids)

 

Just wanted to point out the factor of the YV's humanoid shape. This means that they either evolved (which nixes the droid idea) or were created by a humanoid race.

I guess it could be possible that the "metal" in the vong galaxy (really organic, but it is used like metal) is not able to be sensed in the force.

But this whole theory just isn't predictable enough to be real. We probably will get some kind of cool revelation about the Vong having to do with their absence in the Force, but I don't think it will be this.

 

I think the problem with the theory is that, whether they are machines or not is irrelevent, the fact remains that they are alive-living, breathing, etc.

However, even though they are alive and possessing consciousness, what if they lack a Soul or a Spirit and is then the reason why they cannot be sensed by the Force. I don't see why can't have free-thinking indivduals with different personalities and lack souls at the same time.

I also don't want to confuse spirit, in the sense of a soul, and spirituality, in the fervant nature by which the Vong worship that band of thugs they call gods. Maybe they're constant warfare and self-inflicted torture on themselves and others, is how they fool themselves that they really do have souls.

You know, this makes me think about Zerg in StarCraft. They are said to be the most advanced species that ultimately destroyed their creators. And their techology is pure bio-engineering based.

Heh heh, I noticed that, too.

 

Another thing, don't you guys think that the reason that the Vong aren't able to be sensed is that they have no midi-chlorians?

Maybe this has something to do with cell structure in the Vong Galaxy? Do we have any evidence Vong have cells at all? But what else would they have? That leads up to the special organic-metal thing...

But then why can't they rip arms off Vong? I get the sense it is worse than it is with "normal" non-organic objects (eg droids). There is such a sense of a "void in the force," not just your typical, oh, that's not living.

And where do midi-chlorians factor into yslamiri (someone was talking about a built-in yslamiri effect)? Could this do something?

Arg. Did the original people who planned out the Vong even know about midi-chlorians? I forget if Vector Prime came before or after Episode I (sorry I'm dumb).

 

I try to ignore midi-chlorians whenever possible.

 

Kathy Tyers said that Del Rey knew nothing about midichlorians when they were creating the Vong. After TPM, they were left saying "Okay, what does this all mean to NJO?"

 

I never thought of that...

 

"Just wanted to point out the factor of the YV's humanoid shape. This means that they either evolved (which nixes the droid idea) or were created by a humanoid race."

Threepio's humanoid in shape, but he still was a droid last time I read about him...

"I think the problem with the theory is that, whether they are machines or not is irrelevent, the fact remains that they are alive-living, breathing, etc."

What if they were *advanced* droids, a bit like the HRD from the GFFA ? An artificial re-creation of life.

"Another thing, don't you guys think that the reason that the Vong aren't able to be sensed is that they have no midi-chlorians?"

Apparently you did not understand the concept of the midi-chlorians, as a lot of people did, even I until recently. Midi-chlorians do not produce the Force, they're just what allows a Jedi to tap in the Force. So if something has no midi-chlorians, that does not mean it's absent in the Force, but that means that that thing cannot use the Force. In fact the midi-chlorians are quite a well thought idea that doesn't contradict anything (on the contrary, see the Jedi testing machine in JAT).

"And where do midi-chlorians factor into yslamiri (someone was talking about a built-in yslamiri effect)? Could this do something?"

The Ysalamiri probably produce some *vibration* that stun the midi-chlorians, and thus the link between the Force-user and the Force is broken.

 

Up. I really like that theory. Anyone else want to comment ?

 

I have a question!

The Ysalamiri (<sp?)... what exactly do they look like? I know they're supposed to be like, arboreal, but I always picture them as those little "sonic shockwave" animals from Half-Life. Anyone care to help a brother out?

 

There's a pic of them in the EGtAS...

Back to the topic. Vong = Machines.

 

I would personally kind of like it if the Vong remained a mystery for the most part.

What about that assassin droid from SotE? Didn't she mimic humanoids by breathing and stuff? (I hated that book, so I don't remember her name.) So it's not unheard of.

They could have been created by droids, or were the created as slaves by a society that used treated them horribly with machines. That would explain why they hate machines so much, and why they slice themselves up so much (self-loathing.) They revolted, evolved their own society while creating religions that explained their self-debilitating actions and why they hated machines.

Basically what Xizor said with tiny modifications. Who knows???

 

Sounds like the opposite of Battlestar Galactica where the Cylons evolved from reptiles to machines. Here we have the Vong evolving from "machines" to whatever their present state is now. I don't so!

 

THERE NOT MACJINES!

 

Thanks Chissdude, very constructive.

 

Yeah I thougt so

 

I can't resist...

"THERE NOT MACJINES!"

No one said that they were macjines!!

Just messin' with ya', chissdude.

I was saying that maybe they were made by machines or by a cruel civilization that used machines cruelly against them. Is that more acceptable for you?

 

I dont think there droids, and I take pride in my inability to mess-up typing.

 

Up for the last time, and if you miss it this time, well, I'll laugh when I'll be proven right ! (BWAHAHA...)

And chissdude - please stay out of this if you have nothing constructive to say.

 

It's a good theory PX, but it doesn't really sit well with me. Plus(and don't take this the wrong way)I think it'd be just a tad bit lame if it did turn out to be the case.

 

I wasn't disagreeing with you, I actually stated that they were either organic humanoids or droid humanoids made by organic humanoids in the shape of the organic humanoids. That's not very clear, lemme try with an example, plus a lot of little supporting facts I just now thought up.

A longer time ago, in a galaxy even further away...

The Yuzhann evolved, a species of humanoid organic people. They can use the force, and master it very well, in fact. They are almost GODLIKE with it (!)

They create the Yuzhann Vong, a race of machines, but using an organic type of technology (that is analogous to metal, and if I understand midi-chlorians now, doesn't have midi-chlorians). For some reason, they have a yslamiri effect built into them, but not as bad (it's not a large reinforcing bubble).

Now here's the cool part. The Yuzhann install themselves as gods, the only ones who could use the force. They rule with a regimine of pain (and all those other Vong things), while at the same time appearing godlike.

Eventually (somehow) the Yuzhann are overthrown, and their creations, the Yuzhann Vong, take over. They travel to the Star Wars Galaxy, blah blah blah

And thanks for clearing up the midi-chlorians issue. I thought that my theory was a little rickety, but now it all makes sense!

 

"and if you miss it this time, well, I'll laugh when I'll be proven right ! (BWAHAHA...)" That was intented as a joke.

Now, back to the point. (I'll make comparisons with your and my interpretation if you don't mind)

"The Yuzhann evolved, a species of humanoid organic people. They can use the force, and master it very well, in fact. They are almost GODLIKE with it (!)"

I have no theory about the creators of the Vong, and no idea of what they could be or what their name is.

"They create the Yuzhann Vong, a race of machines, but using an organic type of technology (that is analogous to metal, and if I understand midi-chlorians now, doesn't have midi-chlorians)."

Yup, that's what I think, more or less. What about nanomachines ? I mean, the macroscopic structure of a Vong is clearly organic, I'm not trying to deny that, on the contrary. What I'm trying to say is that on a microscopic level, they're machines. What if their cells were mere micro-droids that could form a whole, in this case the Vong and their organic technology ? The Vong and their 'organic' technology would be composed of the very same basic elements : nanomachines acting as cells.

NB : Those nanomachines could be an easy way to explain how they can 'shape' so easily new living organism. You can command machines, not real cells (not as well, at least). Plus, that'd explain how they accept so easily body modifications. And the shamed ones would be simply composed of defective nanomachines.

And yes, there can be only midichlorians in living organisms, while the Force in itself is in everything.

"For some reason, they have a yslamiri effect built into them, but not as bad (it's not a large reinforcing bubble)."

In fact this 'no-presence' in the Force is abit ambiguous. Sometimes, it's described as an Ysalamir-type effect, like the Vong 'dimming' the presence in the Force of worlds that are beyond them, and in other cases, it's described as being simply, 'lifeless', like a Jedi would sense a droid (meeting of Jaina and Mara with Nom Anor on Duro, for example). So I dunno exactly.

Using my nanomachines theory, either they're simply 'lifeless', or they have indeed some kind of Force-nulliffying technology incorporated in their nanomachines. It's not clear yet, as the authors don't seem very consistent.

"Now here's the cool part. The Yuzhann install themselves as gods, the only ones who could use the force. They rule with a regimine of pain (and all those other Vong things), while at the same time appearing godlike.

Eventually (somehow) the Yuzhann are overthrown, and their creations, the Yuzhann Vong, take over. They travel to the Star Wars Galaxy, blah blah blah "

That's where our theories differ. And yours doesn't work well, IMO : if the Yuuzhan Vong overthrowed their creators, the Yuuzhan, who ruled with a regime of pain, why would the Yuuzhan Vong continue to perpetrate such a barbaric custom ? And why would they continue to revere beings they knew weren't gods, because they overthrowed them ? That makes no sense.

But I agree with the fact they had to eliminate their creators at some point, because they hated them. But as I supposed before, they hated what they were, especially, that's why they started to mutilate themselves, but for some unknown reason they couldn't commit suicide. Anyway, with time, the upper castes started to lie to the lower castes (by creating their gods), and this until even Warmasters wouldn't know the truth. But the shapers obviously know it, and I think Supreme Overlord Shimrra does, too.

The only thing that remains quite 'unclear' to me now is why they'd come to the GFFA. But as I said, I'm not even finished with BP yet, so by the time I've read EOV, I think I'll have an idea.

Anyway, you may choose to consider this theory or not, but IMO it explains a lot of things, maybe even everything.

 

Thats a killer theory Xizor. Best and most interesting I've heard yet on the vong.

Incidentally,

DOMINIC: "Just wanted to point out the factor of the YV's humanoid shape. This means that they either evolved (which nixes the droid idea) or were created by a humanoid race"

No it doesn't, not necissarily. This is like saying that because wookiee's are humanoid they either evolved or were created by a humanoid race. And its saying that every humanoid species in the GFFA evolved from a single entity.

While this solves problems like physical and physiological similarity between species, its not the only solution.

The Vong may look humanoid due to convergant evolution. This is where organisms develop similar traits due not to common ancestry but due to common evolutionary pressures.

IE- bats and birds and butterflys have wings not because they came from a single winged organism, but because they all adapted to flying over time.

Humanoid form seems to be the most evolutionary advanced on our planet- it is one combination that REALLY suits our evolutionary pressures.

Vong come from planets of similar gravity, oxygen content etc. So they just developed the same as other humanoids due to having the same pressures.

 

I actually considered this idea of organic machines myself until reading that Anakin could sense Vong.

Regardless of whether the NJO outline was created before the idea of midichlorians was presented in TPM, I think the authors will incorporate it into the final Force revelation about the Vong.

Maybe the Vong don't have midichlorians, but a similar organism, plastochondrians, which are related to a parallel "Force" in the Vong galaxy.