"The Senate demanded that he stay"

It's a good line

"Anakin, our allegiance is to the Senate, not to its leader; who has managed to remain in office long after his term has expired."

"The Senate demanded that he stay longer."


What did you take from this?
Evidence of the Palpatine's use of mind powers on the Senate, or Lucas making statement about the general public's contribution to the rise of an Empire? Or something entirely different?


offtopic
I just watched this scene (Anakin getting the assignment from Obi-Wan to "spy" on the Chancellor). I found it interesting that Anakin's response to
"Your friendship with the Chancellor seems to have paid off" is
"It has nothing to do with this."
So Anakin sees the Jedi using their friendship to gain power, yet he hasn't yet thought of the possibility of Sidious using him for personal gain.
It makes sense, as it seems Sidious never really asked much of Anakin before the events of ROTS.

Also, from Anakin's POV, he's finally on the Council (which he deserves), and Obi-Wan basically just comes along and says "Well... its only because your friends with Palpatine."
lol ouch

 

I saw it as a combination of both mind powers over the senate (not necessarily using the Force, rather his natural charismatic manipulation) and Lucas making a statement not just on the rise of an empire, but rather more of a social commentary on the world today

 

"The Senate demanded that he stay longer."


I took it at face value. because Anakin does not know Palpatine is Evil, and because Palpatine e buys or tricks people/Senators/ representatives such as JarJar into helping him get more power. Anakin would see it as the Will of the People. I don't subscribe to the Mind powers theory, it weakens Palpatine strategig genius, and makes it too easy. think how brilliant you have to be to pull it off , by deception.

 

"The Senate demanded that he stay longer."


I took it at face value. because Anakin does not know Palpatine is Evil, and because Palpatine e buys or tricks people/Senators/ representatives such as JarJar into helping him get more power. Anakin would see it as the Will of the People. I don't subscribe to the Mind powers theory, it weakens Palpatine strategig genius, and makes it too easy. think how brilliant you have to be to pull it off , by deception.

Ditto, except maybe the deception part. He could have actually given them what they wanted.


- I thought of a new sig on my own, I think, "Dont blame me, I voted for the other gungan." Am I wrong, or did I hear it someplace ?

 

True, I don't really go for the Sith mind-trick theory either.

Still, the line "The force has great influence on the weak-minded" just sounds great when applied to the prequels.

 

i_dont_know: Still, the line "The force has great influence on the weak-minded" just sounds great when applied to the prequels.

^^^I think it just goes to show: even stupid people can become politicians too.

 

The fact that the Senate shows confidence in their leader in a time of war is no different than the American people voting to keep GW at the helm of the war on terror. We'll overlook the fact that he basically started the war for political reasons because society doesn't like to change leaders in the middle of a conflict.

 

lol
well I think that is quite apparent without looking at Star Wars

Well maybe, but I didn't want to make any exact comparisons.
But thinking along those lines - what about this - Unlike us, the people in Star Wars weren't aware who started the war . Maybe we are worse than the Senate then

 

One of the larger issues that surfaced in the telling of Anakin's fall to the dark side and his rise to becoming a corrupt figure was that of the fall of democracy at the hands of the very people who initially fought oppression.

"You have the personal issue of Anakin and his turn to the dark side, but then the children later bring him back to being a human being," Lucas says. "But the larger issue is that you've given up your democracy, and that the bad guys never took it -- it was handed to them. That theme was there 30 years ago which came out of the Vietnam War and Nixon wanting to change the rules so he could get a third term.

I'm a big history buff and I was really into Caesar at the time," Lucas recalls. "I always wanted to know why the Roman Senate gave Caesar's nephew a dictatorship after they had gotten rid of Caesar. Why after the revolution in France did they create an Emperor? Why did the Germans after they had a Democracy after World War I, turn it into a dictatorship? Those were my initial questions 30 years ago."

--George Lucas, Star Wars Homing Beacon #142

"To get an idea of the kind of man Palpatine is in the prequel trilogy you need to read about the Roman Emperor, Julius Caesar, and his spectacular rise to power in Rome."

--George Lucas, Lenoard Maltin interview, 1999

"This idea of a democracy being given up and in many cases being given up in a time of crisis, you see it throughout history whether it's Julius Caesar, or Napoleon, or Adolf Hitler, you see these democracies under a lot of pressure, in a crisis situation, who end up giving up a lot of the freedoms they have and a lot of the checks and balances to somebody with a strong authority to help get them through the crisis. It's not the first time a politician has created a war to try to stay in office."

--George Lucas, Lenoard Maltin interview, 1999.

To sum up, Palpatine has convinced the Senate that they need him in office. They need to give up some things in exchange for others. The people are afraid and as such they make a mistake, which explodes into another and another. Once they see the truth, they realize what just happened and start joining or showing support to the Alliance.

 

Very good point. Great quotes, by the way!

I actually got chills up my spine in this scene. Really ominous.

 

Palpatine's charisma and political machinations themselves were enough to convince the Senate to give him the emergency powers. He did not have to use any "mind tricks" other than those which did not require the power of the Force. He was a master manipulator without having to resort to other tactics.

 

"You?re still laboring under the notion that people take power. Nobody takes power. They're given power by the rest of us, because we are stupid or afraid or both." (William Edgars, in Babylon 5 (IV;16), The Exercise of Vital Powers).

And Palpatine knows it and uses it. He even tells them - but they don't understand.

"It is with great reluctance that I have agreed to this calling."
"The powers you gave me..."
"I am depending on you."
"With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant."

It has nothing to do with using Force powers, or mind tricks, IMO. It's just about understanding and exploiting human psychology.

 

It has nothing to do with using Force powers, or mind tricks, IMO. It's just about understanding and exploiting human psychology

Absolutely. As i also said , it cheapens the Accomplshments of Palpatine to suggest he just uses a mind trick on the Senators and others . the Guy did it by Manipulation. From Padme in TPM , all the way to Anakin in ROTS. he acheived his goals by brain power. the only Force power i beleieve he used in the whole Trilogy, up untill he fights Yoda , is clouding or Masking his Presence from the Jedi, other than that , it's all brains, and Cunning.

 

I agree - in addition he used his abilities to read in people's psyche deeper than an ordinary man could and to see in the Force the different potential future paths the Galaxy might take; and he used his intelligence and insight to take advantage of it.

And the fact that so often he actually tells people what he's doing, what he's up to and how due to their own contribution he's able to do it is what makes this character so compelling to me. If they would just listen carefully and understand what he's saying they would be able to counteract him - but he knows that they won't. In fact, they are their own undoing. He's just the one who exploits their stupidity and their fear.

 

The emergency powers he recieved from the biggest idiot in the galaxy (jar jar) I'm sure had something to do with him staying in power. In ancient Rome during a time of War a leader could be given these emergency powers which meant that he could not be seceded until after that Peril has left. Often these leader's ended up being murdered but it makes me wonder if this also applies to the Senate's emergency powers?

 

It is as simple as this, since he is orchestrating the war from BOTH sides, he can gain popularity from the people by having some republic victories at KEY points in time. With those victories, comes support from the ignorant masses, who, in turn think that having him in office is the way to go about winning the war.

Therefore, he is given more & more "emergency powers" and ultimately the senate wanted to extend his term in office.

Simple as that.

 

In addition to his remarkable cunning, manipulation and ability to take advantage of opportunities as they arose, Palpatine also possessed a huge amount of patience in order to see his plans carried to fruition.

 

All wars start for political reasons, otherwise we wouldn't have them...

 

It's unfair to blame Jar Jar, since he thought he was doing the right thing. As did most of those who supported Palpatine. The Dark Lord knew that he needed Naboo's support in the Senate, since he gotten it ten years earlier. But he knew that it would have to come from someone with Padme's authority, but not from herself. That's why the assassination attempts were condoned by the Sith, for the sole purpose of getting her out of the way. Be it that she dies or is forced to go into hiding. All that mattered was getting someone who could be decieved by a lie. Just as Hayden said of Anakin, he is conned and is forced to believe in it whole heartedly.

 

The Senate was being influenced by the dark lord himself. Dooku told Obi-Wan this in Episode II. What they didn't know was Palpatine was the dark lord. This line to me shows one of Anakin's greatest flaws: his inability to think straight. It was a very good line with much emphasis placed on the Senate more so than Palpatine.

 

It's unfair to blame Jar Jar, since he thought he was doing the right thing.

Yep, if Jar-Jar didnt do it, Im sure Palps had a couple of dozen others who would. Palps always had a plan that no matter what, he wins.

 

I'm not at all entirely blaming the thing on Jar Jar it would have eventually come to pass it's just that saying it's Jar Jar's fault is alot easier for me to do that admit the jedi were being arrogant. There are you happy now you made me cry.

 

when i first heard this line i thought of nazi germany. hitler and co. were elected at first. they then kept making changesto the constitution eventually outlawing all opposition. nobody thought this to be strange at first cause the nazis had the claim that they were duly elected.

 

...not that there was much opposition to begin with. The German people failed in their duty when they allowed Hitler to rise to power. Granted there were many other elements involved, but why do you think that Germany today is so heavily anti-Nazi?

 

Its a common theme in history, really. After years of the French Revolution,
Napoleon was elected and then named himself emperor.