BTS The Sequel Trilogy That Never Was: Episodes VII-IX: The Historical Record

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Darth_Nub, Nov 16, 2009.

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  1. Ogmios22188 Jedi Master

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    Oct 12, 2004
    star 4
    To me, common sense says it doesn't seem Lucas can do anything but Star Wars (except the odd Indiana Jones thing).
  2. Adali-Kiri Jedi Master

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    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
    [face_laugh] Well, that's true. But overseeing 3D conversions, animated TV and live-action TV, the odd Indy, is all somewhat different than heading up the production of three blockbuster movies. Particularly at this point in his life.
  3. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I agree. Lucas probably feels that he is too old for that sort of thing ( ;))
    He would have to hand the reins over to someone younger and stay on as an overseer.
    The problem, though, is that I don't think he would have a sequel trilogy made for the sake of having it done - He would want to make it himself for the sake of having done it his way.
    He was obviously fine with TESB being Kershner's movie, but would he be fine with an entire trilogy being someone else's?





    Overseers are overseas
    /LM
  4. Krueger Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2004
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    Harry Knowles (yes, I know) is pretty convinced that the ?sequel trilogy?, or whatever form its ends up taking, will be a reality after the 3D conversions.

    I must admit, the 3D plans do seem to be very ambitious. Re-releasing one film a year? Why not two films a year, for example, or maybe even three films, so they release a trilogy a year? They could release them a few months apart like the Special Editions back in 1997. That?s six years right there, ending in, if everything goes according to plan, 2017.

    To me, it really does seem like Lucas is building up to something. Don?t get me wrong, I?m pretty sure we?re not going to see the ?sequel trilogy? that everyone has in their minds, but I'm almost sure that we?re going to see some sort of new feature film after the 3D version of ROTJ hits. What?s more worrying is that I?ll be 32 or 33. Scary thought, right there. :eek: [face_laugh]

    Anyway, all this talk about Lucas refusing to let other people direct his films, maybe Lucas has mellowed-out somewhat in his old age and now realises that it?s okay to let other directors direct your films? He's done it before, I'm sure he can do it again.
  5. shanerjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2010
    star 4
    Up until the shoot for TPM, Lucas kept saying publicly he wanted to direct the first film to set the tone and then had it over to others to direct.

    Later when asked about this, Lucas said he enjoyed directing the first one so much he just kept going.

    For me, the ideal is to have Lucas as the guiding hand over the project to instill the Lucas essence into the project but with someone else doing the actual direction.

    Either that or he just has a screenwriter write the script and he shoots it. He's actually a good director. It's his writing that needs help, mostly dialogue.
  6. Ogmios22188 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2004
    star 4
    To add, it may be that The Clone Wars, which he's reportedly enjoying very much, and its inherent collaborative nature has softened his stance a little. He's seen that there are people as dedicated to the universe as him, and that they can deliver. It could've had an impact.
  7. Adali-Kiri Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
    I'm turning 33 this weekend, my friend. [face_laugh]

    I see your point about something building, and I can't quite shake the feeling that something will happen...
  8. Adali-Kiri Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
    I'm not sure that's entirely fair. As shanerjedi pointed out, he intended to have other directors for Episodes II and III, he just changed his mind because he enjoyed directing again. Ian McDiarmid was very pleased that Lucas stayed on, because he liked the direct line and Lucas' precise and uncomplicated direction.

    Added to that, Lucas tried to get both Frank Darabont and Lawrence Kasdan to work on the Episode I script, he got Jonathan Hales to co-write the Episode II script, and Tom Stoppard helped out (uncredited) with the Episode III script. And we all know that the writing and design for the prequel films was a very collaborative effort, with Lucas going back and forth between his writing desk and his design teams.

    In short, I don't think Lucas has ever been anything but very collaborative. Even when he didn't get the collaborators he wanted.
  9. MiricaEclipse Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2011
    I Don't know if this counts or not, but i read somewhere that origunally Luke and Leia weren't supposed to be twins...
    Apparently in 7-9, Luke was going to find his sister, and teach her the force and such... but it seems to me, the way Lucus actually did it ties all the characters together... Luke is Leia's sister, Han Leia's (Much later) husband...
    I'd be curious to see what it would be like if we actually did have the 7-9... If it would follow the same 'track' if you will, of the OT, and PT... Then we would have a ST! Lol.

    Mirica
  10. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

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    If they kept up the same schedule, Episode IX would have come out in 2001.
  11. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

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    According to Gary Kurtz, this was something to be dealt with in the Sequel Trilogy, but a lot of what Kurtz says about what was originally intended for ROTJ, the PT & the ST is a bit muddled, tending to be based on vague ideas & concepts that were discussed at one point & later abandoned completely when the story & saga structure changed.

    In this case, Kurtz seems to be referring to something mentioned in Leigh Brackett's draft of ESB - Luke meets up with the ghost of his dead father (he was NOT Darth Vader at this point) on Dagobah, who mentions that he has a sister (originally called Neilith) in hiding on the other side of the galaxy (thanks to zombie for the transcription):


    When this storyline existed, there weren't meant to be three trilogies, the saga was going to be an ongoing series of films which wouldn't necessarily follow chronological order. At one point it was decided that this series would have 12 films - but it wasn't going to be four trilogies, there would be stand alone films (GL referred to one about Wookiees, another about droids) alongside story arcs which may have comprised multiple films.

    As I mentioned, Luke's father wasn't Darth Vader at this stage. When GL decided that he was, the entire saga vision changed - most importantly, the concept of a Prequel Trilogy was created, & the films Star Wars & The Empire Strikes Back became Episodes IV & V. He also came up with a vague notion for a Sequel Trilogy, set about twenty years after Episode VI.

    Now, it's possible that this Sequel Trilogy may have originally included the old idea of Luke having a sister in hiding on the other side of the galaxy, but given that the idea was part of an entirely redundant vision of 12 films, in which Luke's father actually was dead & Darth Vader was a separate character, plus the ST was set twenty years later, I doubt it very much. Of course, the idea was definitively scrapped when GL decided that Leia was Luke's sister for ROTJ.
  12. Drewdude91 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2011
    star 1
    Even if Vader never became Luke's father, would that seriously mean no prequels? Regardless of the whole Vader/Anakin situation, it would've been interesting to see his father's death and the Empire's rise to power in a movie.
  13. Jedsithor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2005
    star 4
    I don't think Lucas would do another trilogy though I could see him doing a one-off origin story for the Jedi/Sith/Republic if only as an excuse to make a 3D movie. Although many people are still waiting for him to make those small experimental films he used to go on about.
  14. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

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    There was definitely early talk of prequels, even before SW was shot, but it usually referred to one stand-alone film about 'the early days of Ben Kenobi', plus vague mumblings about another film looking at the formation of the Republic & the Jedi Order.

    The actual Prequel Trilogy as a complete storyline on the same scale as the OT, however, is something that really came about after GL decided that part of the backstory involved the turn of Luke's father to the Dark Side & his transformation into Darth Vader.
  15. Adali-Kiri Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
    Thanks to Nub for all the excellent info on the progress of the story! =D=

    Reading such stuff, I still have that wicked thought that other potential stories could be taking shape in the mind of that Lucas-dude at any given time. Now, there's the live action series down the line, which is something I think both Lucas and McCallum are passionate about, and I loved the little bits of info McCallum let leak. It sounds like a really ambitious undertaking, so I don't think any live action movies would be realistic at any point in the next decade.

    After that, who knows what will happen to this property?
  16. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

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    Interesting nevertheless, here's what's in it regarding the Sequel Trilogy:

    Tantalising, of course, but just how much is Hamill's own speculation about extremely vague comments GL may have made, or perhaps even just what's in ROTJ (the Force Ghosts - 'another plane of existence'), is difficult to say. It's somewhat similar to this quote from Rinzler's Making Of ESB:

    My own theory on the 'esoteric, philosophic, inner-directed films' is that he's misinterpreting GL's statements about the Sequel Trilogy being 'ethereal' & 'out there', and the three tangential films being 'odd' & 'strange'. The Sequel Trilogy was only ethereal in the sense that it existed in GL's mind as vague ideas he hadn't thought through yet, not that the content would be particularly mindbending. The 'strange' films GL claims to have abandoned were probably only strange or odd in the sense that they didn't fit into the saga storyline, i.e. they were 'odd ones out', not that they weird (from what little we know, it's most likely they were a droid film, a Wookiee film & perhaps one set in the distant past of the GFFA).
    When Hamill talks about 'another plane of existence' in the Shriver interview, I think he's simply making the same misinterpretation. As for coming back as a different character, that's actually a new one to me.

    You have to wonder what was edited out of the interview, as well. Later on, he says, "I have a feeling in the back of my mind that maybe after Jedi we just won't make any more at all, that it will bring the story to a conclusion." For all we know, everything he says about Eps VII-IX could have been part of a larger conversation about how George Lucas comes up with different ideas for further Star Wars films & throws them on the scrapheap before developing them at all. The comment, "Well, I just like to say that when you see the ending, you'll see why it has to be the last one, period" is clearly referring to ROTJ, not Ep IX, and fits in with the later comment about not making any more SW films.
  17. shanerjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2010
    star 4
    I don't see GL making any further Star Wars live action films.

    They're large, costly, and a trilogy takes a solid decade to produce. GL is in his mid-to-late sixties. And unless he has the stamina of Akira Kurosawa and is still making movies into his '80's it won't happen. I don't expect it to.

    Now he could make further SW adventures and stories in another medium like animation. And he's already underway with that with the CW TV show.
  18. Krueger Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2004
    star 4
    I'll never forget another interview I saw with Hammil some years back. I think it was a recording of around about the time ROTJ came out. He was sitting on a sofa. I think it was a breakfast TV show. Could have even been from the UK. I know he definitely mentioned 2011 (I remember that very well) and how he would be handing down the sword Excalibur-style (again, I definitely remember him mentioning Excalibur).

    I used to bloody have the interview on video. Vanished now. Probably down to the Lucas police.
  19. shanerjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2010
    star 4
    Too bad he didn't mention 2012....[face_hypnotized]

    Then we would all know that years real significance.
  20. Ogmios22188 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2004
    star 4
    To me, the potential laid out in the Mortis trilogy is too tantalizing to be left as just an isolated storyline in The Clone Wars. If they make more movies, I'd see it following from that story arc, in some way.
  21. jc1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2004
    star 1
    I see these tangible possibilities (there are obviously many many others but I feel these are the most likely). In order of most to least likely to come to pass:

    1) A director(s) other than George direct VII, VIII, and IX with some amount of input from GL (they are either following his notes after he's passed on, he's helping write the films, he's overseeing them ala ESB/ROTJ). This will depend on Lucas's age, health, energy, and interest level. The story most likely involves Luke played by Hamill, the droids are obviously in the films, and some others from IV, V, VI probably appear (Lando, Leia, Han, Chewie, etc) but in minor/cameo roles.

    2) Lucas or others (probably others) direct films (probably a trilogy) based on the Old Republic. It involves the Jedi and Sith but not the Skywalkers, other than a possible mention of the Chosen One prophecy.

    3) Lucas himself directs VII, VIII, and IX. Luke and others still in.

    4) We keep getting CW animation, 3D conversions, and re-releases of I-VI with a smattering of extras each time. The Live Action series remains in limbo and it either gets made or it doesn't but no more new theatrical releases (non-animated).

    With Star Wars being such a huge property I think it's almost inevitable that we see more theatrical films and I'll be glad when we do.

  22. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

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    Bumpety bump:

    29th October 1979, Alan Arnold with George Lucas

    AA: Tell me more about the overall concept of the Star Wars saga.
    GL: There are essentially nine films in a series of three trilogies. The first trilogy is about the young Ben Kenobi and the early life of Luke's father when Luke was a little boy. This trilogy takes place some twenty years before the second trilogy which includes Star Wars and Empire. About a year or two passes between each story of the trilogy and about twenty years passes between the trilogies. The entire saga spans about fifty-five years.

    AA: How much is written?
    GL: I have story treatments on all nine. I also have voluminous notes, histories, and other material I?ve developed for various purposes. Some of it will be used, some not. Originally, when I wrote Star Wars, it developed into an epic on the scale of War and Peace, so big I couldn't possibly make it into a movie. So I cut it in half, but it was still too big, so I cut each half into three parts. I then had material for six movies. After the success of Star Wars I added another trilogy but stopped there, primarily because reality took over. After all, it takes three years to prepare and make a Star Wars picture. How many years are left? So I'm still left with three trilogies of nine films. At two hours each, that?s about eighteen hours of film!

    AA: What will the next chapter be?
    GL: The next chapter is called "Revenge of the Jedi". It?s the end of this particular trilogy, the conclusion of the conflict begun in Star Wars between Luke and Darth Vader. It resolves that situation once and for all. I won't say who survives and who doesn't, but if we are ever able to link together all three you'd find the story progresses in a very logical fashion.
  23. Krueger Force Ghost

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  24. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

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    Bumping again. Sequel trilogy discussion was continuing on the temp boards in the "Episode Numbers" thread, cut & pasted by ATMachine into his new thread on these boards. Any objections to keeping ST discussion in this one? (Will cut & paste temp stuff into here)
  25. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

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