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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph The Shakespeare Discussion Thread: "Anonymous"

Discussion in 'Community' started by JediNemesis, Sep 14, 2006.

  1. JediNemesis

    JediNemesis Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 27, 2003
    I have read the play, and I think Luhrmann's production (why shouldn't a film be classed as just another production?) does it justice. It's colourful, it's frenetic, it's fast enough to give that sense of a story hurtling towards tragedy ... I like it.

    So there's no shame in being 'bland' in this case :)
     
  2. darth_frared

    darth_frared Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 24, 2005
    oh, it kicked major ass, the movie. and what surprised me most about it, generally, was that it's not a very tragic story in the beginning, it's actually quite funny. it completely confounded my expectations.

    i really haven't seen it in ages but i loved how luhrmann used all the old words like dagger and gave them new meaning. kind of like the hamlet film with ethan hawke which, fortunately the library has and which i'll inflict on my unassuming housemates again :D
     
  3. JediNemesis

    JediNemesis Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 27, 2003
    Absolutely, it starts off funny as anything - Romeo mooning around being soppy about Rosaline, Benvolio teasing him about it and Mercutio being a pain. The Nurse is hilarious; the whole bit at the ball with Capulet trying to stop Tybalt killing someone is scarcely less so. It's that very funny beginning that makes some professors class it with the comedies.

    Then it gets nasty. [face_mischief]

    I agree that it was a good move on Luhrmann's part to have 'sword' and 'dagger' become brands of gun - very neat. And that the courier company is called 'Post-Post-Haste Dispatch'. That's clever but not obvious.
     
  4. Zaz

    Zaz Jedi Knight star 9

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    Oct 11, 1998
    I really have to see that movie...
     
  5. KissMeImARebel

    KissMeImARebel Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 25, 2003
    I too like the Baz film. The emotions are white-hot and the setting very original.

    My only quip with it is that the Bard's language is sometimes shortchanged: lines are often spoken with such rapidity they aren't done enough justice. This fits realistically (ie the gas station brawl in the beginning - in a situation like that you talk fast), but not artistically IMHO.

    Still: I love the film, it's a brilliant take on the story.
     
  6. Boba_Fett_123

    Boba_Fett_123 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Aug 6, 2002
    Love love love Luhrmann's take on the play. It's one of only three films I've truly appreciated DiCaprio in (and I still wonder why he chose to play the same character in the same story, only on a boat, just a year later, and then how he managed to do it not all that well:confused: ).

    EDIT: I can't spell.
     
  7. __Vader__

    __Vader__ Jedi Master star 3

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    May 23, 2005
    I really adore Luhrmann's Romeo+Juliet, we studied it for our film study last year in english. The cinematography is excellent and the filters add a lot of emotion. Wasn't too keen about the finale with Romeo and Juliet in the tomb, a few things were different to the play in that scene, but above all, a really good translation of the story into modern times.
     
  8. JediNemesis

    JediNemesis Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 27, 2003
    I should check on this thread more often [face_blush]

    Or you could save it for the next Shelf of Shame :p I'd recommend it. It's great fun and an awesome take on the story.

    I think I agree with you. Thing is, on stage you're already in a somewhat artificial/formalised setting, so the dialogue doesn't need to sound realistic, just effective. In a film, particularly one going for the modern approach, it's harder to pull off the original text. I reckon Luhrmann actually did it really well.

    Remind me never to see Titanic. :p DiCaprio handles Romeo very well IMO; he manages to convey his rather high-strung attitude (Juliet's a lot more sensible) without going over the top. Yes.

    Absolutely. It looks wonderful as well as being a superb production of the play - the colourfulness of almost everything in the film is almost garish, but it looks fantastic.

    The last scene in the tomb . . . hmm. Opinion is divided. I don't mind particularly; none of the lines were changed, just the timing, which is a legitimate decision for any director to make. It works pretty well IMO; just not in quite the same way as the play does.

     
  9. darth_frared

    darth_frared Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 24, 2005
    roger ebert also always points out the -to him- much superior version by zeffirelli. has anyone seen that? i think i watched it in school but it didn't impress me much.

    here's the link to his review: http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20000917/REVIEWS08/9170301/1023
     
  10. Zaz

    Zaz Jedi Knight star 9

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    Oct 11, 1998
    Haven't seen the Zefferelli either, I'm afraid.
     
  11. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Mar 19, 1999
    I have the Zeffirelli version on DVD. It's really one of the best cinema adaptations of any Shakespeare play. You have a young Michael York as Tybalt, maybe the only actor in the film who's widely recognizable to modern audiences, but the cast as a whole was extraordinary.
     
  12. Zaz

    Zaz Jedi Knight star 9

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    Oct 11, 1998
    I read somewhere that there are two 'lost' Shakespeare plays. Does anybody know anything about them?
     
  13. JediNemesis

    JediNemesis Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 27, 2003
    Yes.

    The Lost Plays are specifically the two that Shakespeare is known to have written, but of which no text exists. It's entirely possible, even likely, that he wrote other plays of which no record survived as well as no text.

    The Lost Plays are Love's Labours Won, a sequel or companion piece to Love's Labours Lost. BTW, this tendency of Renaissance playwrights is a nice confutation for anyone who claims that sequelitis is a modern disease; Ben Jonson followed his smash hit Every Man In His Humour with the equally popular Every Man Out Of His Humour, and John Fletcher followed his The Maid's Tragedy with . . . The Second Maid's Tragedy. Shakespeare wasn't alone :p

    Anyway, LLW is one of the Lost Plays; the other is Cardenio, based on an episode touched on in Don Quixote. Contemporary records show it as having been a collaboration between Shakespeare and Fletcher, like The Two Noble Kinsmen.

    Needless to say, if a copy of either were to be found in an attic or somewhere, the finder could name their price. [face_money_eyes]


    EDIT: One of the main story strands in Lost in a Good Book by Jasper Fforde concerns the discovery of a copy of Cardenio; reading the passage made me sad, because the plot sounded like the kind of thing that could be stupendous - quickfire romantic comedy along the lines of Much Ado About Nothing.
     
  14. Zaz

    Zaz Jedi Knight star 9

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    Oct 11, 1998
    What a find that would be! And I'm off to reserve "Lost in a Good Book" at the library...

    Any rumour of more than two? Apparently the ones that *did* survive did so basically by accident in actor's copies...does this mean that the two missing plays were unpopular?
     
  15. JediNemesis

    JediNemesis Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 27, 2003
    Make sure you read the other three Thursday Next books too :p

    LiaGB is number two; the series starts with The Eyre Affair, then Lost in a Good Book, then The Well of Lost Plots, and finally Something Rotten. As you can probably tell from the title of the last-named, the entire series is riddled with Shakespearean goodness (SR has Hamlet as a supporting character . . .) I'd recommend them to anyone; if you want a second opinion, ask Rogue or look at the Thursday Next thread in SFFBC :)

    EDIT: The thread is here ;)
     
  16. Zaz

    Zaz Jedi Knight star 9

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    Oct 11, 1998
    Confession: Tried to read "The Eyre Affair" at least twice, and couldn't get beyond a few pages. I will just have to force myself. :)
     
  17. JediNemesis

    JediNemesis Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 27, 2003
    It's not that bad. I don't think; I haven't read it in a while.

    Slightly back on topic, one of the reasons I love the Thursday Next series is because I adore the simple idea of a world where there are soliloquy-vending machines on every corner and hotel rooms have the Gideon Shakespeare in the dresser drawer :p

    Also, the scene at the performance of Richard III in Eyre Affair is worth reading the book for, IMO. I just wish it was real :(
     
  18. KissMeImARebel

    KissMeImARebel Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 25, 2003
    I wasn't a fan of the Zeffirelli version. We watched it in HS. It's satisfactory but nothing special IMHO. I remember us all thinking Juliet's crying was very fake and overdone.
     
  19. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 2, 2000
    The bit where the audience all puts on sunglasses at the line about the 'glorious sun of York' made me laugh until I cried. And wouldn't we all kill to be in a theater where the entire audience participated in the final battle?

    Yes, the Thursday Next books are the pinaccle of modern lit. Give it another try, Zaz; it's not easy really, but it's great stuff.

    There have been various attempts to more or less whip up Cardenio out of thin air; seems I remember one production that actually billed itself as Shakespeare's Cardenio, which is the pinaccle of misleading advertising.

    Yes, I think these stand right up there with the Van Gogh that Vincent lost on the train as the great lost art treasures.
     
  20. Zaz

    Zaz Jedi Knight star 9

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    Oct 11, 1998
    Some of the accepted plays are collaborations, aren't they?
     
  21. darkmole

    darkmole Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 2, 2000
    yes, it was very common in the period for plays to be multiauthored.

    off the top of my head: 2 Noble Kinsmen, Henry VIII and Cardenio, all from the end of his career, are collaborations with John Fletcher.

    Pericles appears to be a collaboration with George Wilkins, a rather shady character who also wrote a novel about Pericles.

    The Henry VI plays and Titus are thought to be collaborations, though the issue is hotly debated.

    Macbeth contains scenes lifted from Thomas Middleton's The Witch.

    A lot of the time, Shakespeare was simply rewriting old plays that needed updating. Hamlet was around in the early 1590s, probably written by Thomas Kyd (but the text does not survive). There are a lot of these plays which do survive: The Famous Victories of Henry V, The Troublesome Reign of King John, The Tragedy of Richard III, The Taming of a Shrew (although this might be a pirate of Shakespeare's play), The Tragedy of King Leir, Promos and Cassandra (=Measure for Measure).
     
  22. JediNemesis

    JediNemesis Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 27, 2003
    Expert opinion now leans towards their having been added in afterwards, probably after Shakespeare's death, rather than being included whole in the original.

    Yup, the so-called Ur-Hamlet (which is one of the silliest names ever ... what would have been wrong with 'proto-Hamlet'?) almost certainly existed, but nobody's been able to find hide nor hair of it.
     
  23. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 2, 2000
    Ur seems to imply that it was 'better,' which I highly doubt. :p Proto would have been better, you're right.

    Timon of Athens is also of dubious authorship; I liked Timon of Athens. :p
     
  24. Zaz

    Zaz Jedi Knight star 9

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    Oct 11, 1998
    But there are some people who can tell which line was written by Shakespeare and which wasn't.
     
  25. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 2, 2000
    I'm not one of them. :p

    I instantly recognized Pericles as being a collaboration when I read it, but only because it uses a chorus, something Shakespeare never used.