The ships in the OT are MUCH cooler than those in AOTC or TPM

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by elfdart, Sep 22, 2002.

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  1. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    [image=http://the.animearchive.org/wingsofhonneamise/2/woh-08.jpg]

    [image=http://www.malfunkt.com/jedi/av3k_color1.jpg]
  2. Darth_Tim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 4
    The OT ships have a very "military" design. Let's look at the Star Destroyer:

    Like the AT-AT's, it's not only functional but intimidating. The sloping hull surfaces would allow weapons to have an excellent field of fire in all directions save the rear. The engines are buried well inside the hull and quite protected.

    TIE series: This reminds me of the modern notion of the "multi-role" combat aircraft which is a single core system which can be adapted to fulfill different combat roles.

    The AT/AT's are a mystery to me, given their mode of locomotion and size. During WW2 when both sides experimented with "super-heavy" tanks, it was found that massive, heavily armed and armored tanks were often impractical because of their sheer mass, which, unless distributed along a huge track area, made them unsuitable for many types of terrain. The "walker" configuration would seem to (especially when moving) transmit the mass of the vehicle to a relatively small surface area of the "feet" and "toes."

    On the other hand, the AAT and transports used by the TF, since they did not require a suspension to come into contact with the ground, would be a superior design, especially in regards to mobility.

    However, the AT/AT does make sense from a tactical point of view - it synthesizes the role of heavy tank with that of the troop transport.

    As for the Naboo fighters/Royal ships: The Naboo were cultured and artistic, not militaristic, and it only makes sense this would be reflected in their designs, which are more "organic" in nature.

    The Rebel fighters in the OT reminded me more of "hot-rodded" civilian designs than anything else. (similarities between the Y-wing and WW2 P-38 fighter aside)

    Also, what's the deal with EU ship designs being posted here? I thought we were talking about the ships in the FILMS.

    -Tim
  3. rob_amenta Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2002
    you know, ive been reading postings here for years, and have never responded untill i read yodaschum's comment about Ralph McQuarie: "He was a truely awesome artist. I think Lucas owes him alot."

    im a huge fan of the series, but the absence of Mcquaries work has really hurt the pt. if you just look at any of the early paintings he did, they just screamed "Star Wars". the new designs, which are still good, have an unfortunate generic quality to them. they dont "feel" like star wars.

    just wanted to say thanks for appreciating Mcquaries awesome work.
  4. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    But don't forget Joe Johnston either! McQuarrie and Johnston are responsible for THE LOOK of Star Wars. They are the dynamic duo, the space-fantasy tag team of cool ships and awesome characters.

    Now, neither of them are involved. Seems logical that many fans, such as myself perhaps, wouldn't like the art design nearly as much.
  5. guittarjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah RobAmenta,"generic" is the perfect word to describe the designs of the prequels.
  6. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    Here's some more pictures of "EU" designs, mostly copied from the technical commentaries(I know this may be drifting OT, but I feel it's fair to compare these other, not-really-Lucasfilm, sort of "fan made" designs with the ones from the two trilogies).

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/books/egvv/eclipse-eg1.gif]
    Eclipse Schematic

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/cg/df2/jerec4.gif]
    The Vengeance from the JEDI KNIGHT video game.


    [image=http://people.a2000.nl/tvdbrink/slaveII.gif]
    Slave Two. Boba bought this while searching for the earlier vessel.

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/books/weg/atatswim2.jpg]
    Walker developed for undersea missions.

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/cg/fc/ataa1.jpg]
    Anti-Aircraft Walker from the Lucasarts strategy games.

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/books/egvv/tiedr-eg1.gif]
    Droid TIE fighter

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/cg/ra2/tphrack.jpg]
    V-38 TIE "Phantom"

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/books/egvv/scimitar2.jpg]
    Assault Bomber

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/given/fg/tierpt.gif]
    TIE raptor

    [image=http://hangarbay.tripod.com/escort_carrier.jpg]
    Escort Carrier

    [image=http://hangarbay.tripod.com/lancer_frigate.jpg]
    Lancer frigate

    [image=http://hangarbay.tripod.com/carrack_light_cruiser.jpg]
    Carrick Class

    [image=http://hangarbay.tripod.com/l-strike.jpg]
    Strike Cruiser

    [image=http://hangarbay.tripod.com/dreadnaught.jpg]
    Dreadnaught

    [imaged=http://hangarbay.tripod.com/maraudercorvette.jpg]
    Marauder

    [image=http://hangarbay.tripod.com/nr-assaultfrigate.jpg]
    Assault Frigate(Modified Dreadnaught)

    [image=http://hangarbay.tripod.com/raith-vwing2.jpg]
    V-wing

    [image=http://www.lucasarts.com/products/battlegrounds/images/concepts/11.jpg]
    Imperial sea-based craft from strategy game

    [image=http://www.lucasarts.com/products/battlegrounds/images/concepts/1.jpg]
    Trade Federation cannon

    [image=http://www.lucasarts.com/products/battlegrounds/images/concepts_cc/10.jpg]
    Republic transport

    [image=http://www.lucasarts.com/products/battlegrounds/images/concepts_cc/8.jpg]
    Naboo ship

    [image=http://www.lucasarts.com/products/battlegrounds/images/concepts_cc/5.jpg]
    Small walker

    [image=http://www.lucasarts.com/products/battlegrounds/images/concepts_cc/4.jpg]
    Gunship variant?

    [image=http://www.lucasarts.com/products/starwarstheclonewars/images/craft/6.jpg]
    Republic walker

    [image=http://www.lucasarts.com/products/starwarstheclonewars/images/craft/8.jpg]
    Republic Battle tank

    [image=http://www.lucasarts.com/products/starwarsbountyhunter/images/concepts/17.jpg]
    Coruscant police transport

  7. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    And here's creature designs compared:

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/bantha/img/movie_bg.jpg]
    Bantha

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/dewback/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Dewback(Original)

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/dewback/img/movie_bg.jpg]
    Dewback(SE)

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/dianoga/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Dianoga

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/kraytdragon/img/movie_bg.jpg]
    The remains of a Krayt Dragon

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/ronto/img/movie_bg.jpg]
    Ronto(SE)

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/scurrier/img/movie_bg.jpg]
    Scurrier(SE)

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/mynock/img/movie_bg.jpg]
    Mynock

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/spaceslug/img/movie_bg.jpg]
    Space Slug

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/tauntaun/img/curve.jpg]
    Tauntaun

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/wampa/img/movie_bg.jpg]
    Wampa(Original)

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/wampa/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Wampa(SE)

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/rancor/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Rancor

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/sarlacc/img/movie_bg.jpg]
    Sarlacc

    PT


    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/coloclawfish/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Colo Claw Fish

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/eopie/img/movie_bg.jpg]
    Eopie

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/falumpaset/img/movie_bg.jpg]
    Falumpaset

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/fambaa/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Faamba

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/ikopi/img/movie_bg.jpg]
    Ikopi

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/kaadu/img/movie_bg.jpg]
    Kaadu

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/mott/img/movie_bg.jpg]
    Mott

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/nuna/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Nuna

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/opeeseakiller/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Opee Sea Killer

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/pekopeko/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Peko Peko

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/sandoaquamonster/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Sando Aqua Monster

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/shaak/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Shaak

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/acklay/img/movie_bg.jpg]
    Acklay

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/aiwha/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Aiwha

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/kouhun/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Kouhun

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/massiff/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Massif

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/nexu/img/movie_bg.jpg]
    Nexu

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/orray/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Orray

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/reek/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Reek

































  8. guittarjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
    I love the Tie Phantom. After comparing the creatures it seems to me that the SE and prequel creatures have a more "children's book illustration" look and the OT creatures have a more "real world" more believable look.
  9. Krash RSA Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2000
    star 5
    The ships and creatures from OT, like everything else in that trilogy, are more basic; possibly because of the Clone Wars. Meanwhile, when we're introduced to the SW universe in TPM, things are much more sophisticated...the Republic is at it's highest point. However, I think the basic "real-world" look of the SW technology and creatures is constant, between the prequels and OT.

    some of my favorites include:
    X-Wing
    jedi starfighter
    Milenium Falcon
    TIE Interceptor
    A-Wing
    TIE Defender
    Republic Gunship
    AT-AT
    Star Destroyer
    Assault Gunship (computer games)
    N-1 fighter
    B-Wing
    Cloud City
    Anakin's speeder
    Owen's swoop-bike
  10. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    After comparing the creatures it seems to me that the SE and prequel creatures have a more "children's book illustration" look and the OT creatures have a more "real world" more believable look

    I would go the other way around, actually; the prequel and SE creatures seemed to be more based on actual creatures, and also seem to have some Dinosaur influence in them as well. Prequel creatures like the Dianoga, Mynock, Space Slug and Sarlacc appear more otherworldly IMO than the Kaadu, which is basically a Hadrosaur with it's arms and part of it's tail cut off.
  11. guittarjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
    What I meant was the original trilogy creatures didn't have such a "cutesy" look. The Nexu looks like Chester Cheetah.
  12. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    Also, has anybody notice the subtle design changes many of the OT aliens have undergone for the prequels? Look for instance at the Ree-Yees/Gran example from "Return Of The Jedi"

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/reeyees/img/eu_bg.jpg]

    and now the AOTC mask of a similar alien:

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/askaak/img/movie_bg.jpg]
  13. guittarjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
  14. guittarjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
    To me the original trilogy ship,alien and creature designs affect me deeply on a subconcious level. The prequel designs just kind of bounce off me. The OT aliens although they were strange looking didn't have the horror movie like ugliness that some of the prequel aliens have. That new Ree Yees is just plain uglier.
  15. Darth_Tarpals Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 4
    Why did they never make a Sando Aqua Monster action figure? That thing just looks so freakin' cool!
  16. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    To me the original trilogy ship,alien and creature designs affect me deeply on a subconcious level. The prequel designs just kind of bounce off me.

    Dude, you're trying just a little too hard to justify your dislike for Star Wars. Just say you don't like the prequel designs and leave it at that. Trying to concoct some Freudian psycho-analysis to prop up your opinion is rather pathetic. Have enough confidence in yourself to state your opinion plainly without trying to justify it to yourself or others.
  17. guittarjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
    Dorkwood,your ass backwards opinions on everything are pathetic.
  18. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    Yet another constructive thread brought down by Durwood's negativity. Thanks for nothing, as usual.

    I feel the same way about the SE and PT designs, that they don't register. These post-OT designs generally look as if they could be from any movie or video game, and not necessarily a Star Wars product. Hence, the generic look.

    The children's book illustration is a good comparison. Heh heh, we all know about Dinotopia, right? Furthermore, none of the designs appear to have any emotional, "sublime" connotations. They are plain beyond belief. If you were to look at just the designs of ANH, let's say, you could very easily tell which ships belong to the Rebellion, and which ships belong to the Empire. This is because the machinery was designed to evoke very specific emotions from the audience. This is the glory of effective design.

    Jeez, just compare the Slave I to the Slave II. The Slave II looks like some kind of bastard space-sandcrawler. Wherever the talented designers of America are, they sure aren't designing the spacecraft of the Star Wars franchise. Joe Johnston, put down that dinosaur and get over here!
  19. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    I wish I had my Final Fantasy VIII Ultimania book with me. It has a CGI render image of every creature and character used in the game. Square's production staff probably used the same equipment and software that ILM used, and the quality is similar. Of course, there is the FF movie that is full of the same style of CGI renders.

    Keep in mind that these CGI renders are outputted direcly from the actual design computers, and are not video captures of the game itself; therefore the resolution of these images is as high as those ILM examples from the OS.

    That said, I think the OT designs are superior to FF, but that the FF designs are superior to the PT -- for the reasons outlined in my previous post.
  20. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    You guys are really funny, you know that? Your biggest fallacy is assuming that something is inferior simply because you happen to not like it (where you really get yourselves in trouble is when you try and justify your simple opinions with laughable "proof"!). Trying to argue which Star Wars movie has the "better" design work is like trying to argue that apples taste better than bananas. It's all pure subjectivity, nothing more, nothing less. The design work in Star Wars is excellent across the board--or at the very least consistent--regardless of your capacity to enjoy it.
  21. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    Hey Panaka, if I personally don't like something, then I consider it inferior to something I do like. Seems pretty straightforward to me. For example, I do not like the ship designs on Babylon 5; therefore, I consider them inferior to X-Wings and TIE-Fighters. I don't like the AT-ST as much as the AT-AT, therefore I consider the AT-ST to be inferior -- if only slightly.

    As far as design (or art) in general is concerned, I do not think it is purely subjective. Taste, perhaps is suggestive, but effective design is also a function of research, emotion, wisdom, passion, and several other things. I consider the designs of the OT to be the logical products of the world that is created. As far as the PT designs are concerned, they merely look arbitrary.

    Durwood, I think you've more than demonstrated that you don't care at all about these films, and certainly don't want to discuss them in a mature way. Maybe you should go troll the Spider-Man boards for a while and get it out of your system?
  22. HotsForTahiri78 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 4
    I usually disagree with you guitarrjedi, but you weren't bashing anything and Durwood came in flaming.
  23. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Durwood, I think you've more than demonstrated that you don't care at all about these films...

    ?[face_plain]

    Maybe you should go troll the Spider-Man boards...

    Except that I don't frequent forums for movies I don't like, unlike some people around here.
  24. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    you weren't bashing anything and Durwood came in flaming.

    If you mistook my innocuous comments for "flaming" then it's time you got yourself some thicker skin.
  25. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    Calling somebody's rationale "pathetic" sounds pretty flamey to me. But there you go.
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