The ships in the OT are MUCH cooler than those in AOTC or TPM

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by elfdart, Sep 22, 2002.

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  1. DarthToeJam Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2002
    star 4
    "Because my training or background is irrelevant to the validity of my opinion, or the logic I use to support it."

    True, but your background certainly is relevant if you're claiming an expertise in design. Opinion and argument are two different things. Your opinion would carry more weight if it was derived from some sort of expertise. I have a BFA from one of the best art colleges in the nation, and have a career in feature films (in roles ranging from storyboard artist to director). Does that make my opinion any more valid than yours? No. But, it does give me the claim of having a certain expertise in these things over someone who has not had my training and professional experience.

    That being said, it is impossible to scientifically gauge the "effectiveness" of the prequel designs on the audience without sampling a large segment of the audience. Otherwise, we're simply quessing and stating personal opinion (which is no better or worse than anyone else's).

    In my opinion, it seems as if Lucas is using the same approach to designing the prequels as he did the OT. Ship designs reflect the character of the people who built them (the Naboo), or the people who fly them (Maul's Sith Inflitrator, the Millenium Falcon). They exist to tell the story. In fact, it seems to me that MORE thought has gone into the prequel designs because there is a much large scope to these films and there is a certain amount of reverse engineering that the designers have had to do -- especially in the pre-Empire look of the Republic vehicles in AOTC. I love the angled, boiler-plate look of the OT designs, but I also like that the PT designs have a more rounded 1930's design aesthetic. One of the problems some people have with TPM in particular was that it had a radically different look than the OT. That's to be expected because it is the furthest back in time. AOTC brings us a little closer to the straight lines of the OT and EP3 I'm sure will bring us even closer. Taken together, we'll see a nice transition from designs that reflect a "more civilized age" to the oppressive industrial look of the Empire. Most importantly, this transition serves the story -- to illustrate how a noble civilization allows itself to be corrupted by evil.

    As for audience perception, I would bet that in a random sample of people would be able to pick out the "good guys" from the "bad guys" in the PT ship designs -- probably the most important distinction when it comes to telling the story.



  2. Durwood Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    This is the first time I have EVER seen you post an actual opinion about SW.

    If Durwood posts his opinions about Star Wars but TokyoXtreme isn't around to see it, did Durwood still submit the post?
  3. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    Some more concept sketches:


    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/emperorsroyalguard/img/bts_bg.jpg]
    Royal Guard. BTW, if you look quickly you can catch these guys in AOTC.

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/imperialgunner/img/bts_bg.jpg]
    Imperial personnel sketch

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/rebelalliance/img/bts_bg.jpg]
    Painting of Rebel briefing

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/rebeltroopers/img/bts_bg.jpg]
    Rebel trooper sketch

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/thesith/img/bts_bg.jpg]
    Sith concept

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/rappertunie/img/bts_bg.jpg]
    Special Edition alien concept


    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/wicketwwarrick/img/bts_bg.jpg]
    "Scout Ewok"

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/location/emperorsthroneroom/img/bts_bg.jpg]
    Emperor's tower sketch
  4. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    More, this time from the Technical commentaries...

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/books/taosw/bigfoot1.jpg]


    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/books/taosw/bigfoot2.jpg]

    ESB preproduction artwork, Stormtroopers relaxing among the walkers...

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/comics/strip/biped1.jpg]
    An early EU walker

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/books/taosw/walkheavy.jpg]
    ESB preproduction artwork for AT-ST

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/comics/strip/walker1.jpg]
    Another EU walker

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/books/art/biped.jpg]
    Another AT-ST concept

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/books/iswu/twins.gif]
    ROTJ concept art showing Stars over Coruscant(Originally,like the prequels, most of the film took place on Coruscant; the Stars orbited Coruscant and the shields were based on Coruscant's moon--Endor).

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/ssd/battleship.gif]
    Executor concept

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/tv/demolisher-port.jpg]
    An Imperial-styled ship from the old Droids cartoon

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/books/art/anhvsd.jpg]
    Imperial Star Destroyer concept
  5. smauldookie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2002
    star 5
    "The ships in the OT are MUCH cooler than those in AOTC or TPM"


    NO they are not!

    Count Dooku's Solar Sailor is the BEST of all the ships in both OT'S and PT'S. :D

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/multimedia/archive/Images/Episode_2/Starships/Solar_Sailor/aotc-solar_sailor02.jpg]

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/multimedia/archive/Images/Episode_2/Starships/Solar_Sailor/aotc-solar_sailor_curve.jpg]

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/multimedia/archive/Images/Episode_2/Starships/Solar_Sailor/zoo-solarsailor.jpg]

    [image=http://www.jedinet.com/multimedia/gallery/Prequel_Trilogy/Episode_II/Trailer_Stills/Trailer_D/29.jpg]
  6. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    Tell me if this is starting to get annoying:

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/br/cv-de16.jpg]
    Smuggler ship from Dark Empire

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/br/concep32.gif]
    Concept maquette for Millenium Falcon

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/br/brunner1.gif]
    Blockade Runner concept

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/br/giel2.jpg]
    Marvel EU Star Destroyer

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/tradfed/pltcpit.jpg]
    Early TPM storyboard of Droid pilot

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/tradfed/bdroidc2.jpg]
    Battle Droid concepts

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/tradfed/bdroidc1.jpg]
    More concepts; note how some of these later were incorporated into Super Battle Droids

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/tradfed/c9979c1.jpg]
    Single winged landing craft

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/tradfed/mttcon1.jpg]
    MTT sketch

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/tradfed/mttcon6.jpg]
    More MTTs

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/mf/concep30.jpg]
    Old MF concept

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/mf/concep35.jpg]
    Another MF concept

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/mf/Image15.jpg]
    Painting which inspired a shot in TPM


  7. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    Here's the "Forgotten" Star Wars ships, from ESB's ending:

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/yhead/ragtag2.jpg]

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/jedi/benmollo.jpg]
    Obi-Wan sketch

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/jedi/obides2.jpg]
    Obi-Wan sketch, apparentally with Ralph "Red Dragon" Fiennes in mind. Imagine if he got paired with Liam!

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/jedi/obides3.jpg]
    Russel Crowe Obi?

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/jedi/obides4.jpg]
    That looks a bit more Like Ewan :)
  8. TokyoXtreme Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    Compared to the finished pieces of art, those comic book excerpts look like children's scribbling. What junk.
  9. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 10
    I'm enjoying this thread just for the pics. :)

    Its one of those I do when bored and there is nothingon, just pour through the SW art books.
  10. Ekenobi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    Compared to the finished pieces of art, those comic book excerpts look like children's scribbling. What junk.

    And I am sure you could do better.
  11. yodaschum Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    The PT ships will always be inferior to the OT ships.



    Oh yes.
  12. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    Some of the comic pictures come from the old MARVEL series from the 80's. Some are also from the Newspaper comic strips, also from the 80's(The newspaper strips tie better into film continuity IMO).
  13. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    One thing is that different types of ships come from different cultures and manufacturers. This is not stated explicately in the movies, but I don't think it's entirely an EU concept either.
    For instance, the T-16 "Skyhopper"(Luke's toy in ANH, also seen in ROTJ:SE), the T-65 X-wing, and the T-47 Snowspeeder are all manufactured by Incom. Likewise, the wedge-shaped vessels of the films are all affiliated with Kuat Drive Yards. The Millenium Falcon, the Republic Cruiser, The Correlian Corvette/Blockade Runner are all Correlian ships...and so on.
    One of the interesting concepts in the prequels has been the Battle Droids being designed after their manufacturers(Which we can assume are the Genosians). Makes you wonder if R2 units are designed by short, two-legged aliens with funky little appendages that pop out of their chests.






  14. TokyoXtreme Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    And I am sure you could do better.

    I could do far better with just a mouse and MS Paint. By the way.
  15. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    Why not show us your work, then :)

    BTW does the JC have any any "attach" feature? I'm thinking of scanning my art of ROTJ book...
  16. TokyoXtreme Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    There was a special word for the technique of mouse art. I forgot what it's called, but I would much rather look at that type of artwork than the chum churned out by the American comic book corps. Or at least what's reflected here. I mean, look at those scout walkers. What are they made out of, chrome? Learn to draw guys. Great gravy.

    But then look at the brilliance of McQuarrie, et. al. Man those comic book illustrations drive me nuts.
  17. SuperWatto Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2000
    star 6
    The ships in the PT are MUCH cooler than those in the OT.

    Because we have seen the ships in the OT enough now, over the past 25 years.

    Whose heart still stops when they see an X-Wing?
  18. DarthToeJam Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2002
    star 4
    "Whose heart still stops when they see an X-Wing?"

    Mine!

    But that Republic Gunship is pretty damn cool too! It's like a snowspeeder mixed with an X-Wing with a little Huey helicopter thrown in. Sweet!
  19. yodaschum Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    Have you seen that podrace? It's kind of like Wacky races. The spirit of Hanna Barbara lives on in Lucas.
  20. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    The comic artwork was done circa 1981-1984 by Al Williamson, for the weekly STAR WARS comic strips(Compiled by DARK HORSE as "Classic Star Wars"). Al also pencilled the comic adaptations for THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, RETURN OF THE JEDI, and THE PHANTOM MENACE. He started working on EC comics in the 50's, and is a popular fantasy comic artist. He's more in a class with say, Jack Kirby and John Buscema than say, Rob Liefeld or Todd Mcfarlane. The comic strips were written by Archie Goodwin, and tied A NEW HOPE and THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK together(Much better than SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE tied ESB and ROTJ). Al is probably the longest-running artist to be affiliated continously with STAR WARS. The storyline dealt with the Rebels seeking out a new base while Vader builds the Executor to take out Yavin. Eventually the story ends with the Rebels settling on Hoth.

    Here's some other examples of Al's SW artwork:

    [image=http://206.190.141.94/covers/c/csw1.jpg]
    Luke and Leia vs. A walker while the Falcon closes in...

    [image=http://206.190.141.94/covers/c/csw3.jpg]
    Vader and the Executor under construction


    [image=http://206.190.141.94/covers/c/csw4.jpg]
    Luke and Vader on Fondor(They didn't actually fight, but came close)

    [image=http://206.190.141.94/covers/c/csw13.jpg]
    The disastourous first meeting with Ackbar

    [image=http://206.190.141.94/covers/c/cswtpb2.jpg]
    Ditto.

    [image=http://206.190.141.94/covers/c/csw15.jpg]
    A run on EXECUTOR.

    [image=http://206.190.141.94/covers/c/csw16.jpg]
    Luke in a jam.

    [image=http://206.190.141.94/covers/c/csw19.jpg]
    Fun on Hoth...

    [image=http://206.190.141.94/covers/c/csweb1.jpg]
    Al's EMPIRE adaptation reprint cover

    [image=http://206.190.141.94/covers/c/cswvm.jpg]
    Cover to a Dark Horse Marvel reprint

    [image=http://206.190.141.94/covers/c/cswrj2.jpg]
    Rendering of the Sail Barge battle


    Some excerpts:

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/comics/strip/fondor.jpg]
    Executor under construction

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/comics/strip/fondor2.jpg]
    Executor awakens

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/given/rb/isdcrash.jpg]
    An Imperial mutiny...


  21. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    Also, Al has a protege' Allen Nunis, who has done many illustrations for the RolePlaying games, as well as drawing the first four issues of the "Rogue Squadron" comic series.
  22. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    Getting back on track, let's compare costume design:

    Jedi:

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/jedi/obiwan.jpg]
    Obi-Wan, prequel outfit

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/jedi/ben.jpg]
    Obi-Wan, OT outfit

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/anakinskywalker/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Anakin, early Padawan


    [image=http://www.starwars.com/episode-ii/imageattack/2002/07/img/ep2-1a-1102.jpg]
    Anakin, later years

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/bearclan/img/movie_bg.jpg]
    "Bear Clan"

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/episode-ii/imageattack/2002/09/img/ep2-1a-68529.jpg]
    Aayla Secura


    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/jedi/mundi.jpg]
    Ki-Adi Mundi's yellow outfit

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/jedi/gallia.jpg]
    Adi Gallia's outfit


    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/jedi/an-yod-ben.jpg]
    "Spirits" of Anakin, Yoda, and Ben

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/jedi/lukecost.jpg]
    Luke's ROTJ robe, worn during the Jabba part of the film

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/jedi/luke.jpg]
    Luke's Jedi outfit


    Sith:

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/darthmaul/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Darth Maul

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/countdooku/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Darth Tyrannus AKA Count Dooku

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/darthvader/img/movie_bg.jpg]
    Darth Vader

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/darthsidious/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Darth Sidious, AKA Chancellor Palpatine(?)

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/palpatine/img/movie_bg.jpg]
    Palpatine, TPM

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/palpatine/img/movie2_bg.jpg]
    Palpatine, AOTC

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/palpatine/img/eu_bg.jpg]
    Palpatine, ROTJ

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/amidala/img/curve.jpg]
    Amidalia's battle outfit, AOTC

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/leiaorganasolo/img/curve.jpg]
    Leia's Senatorial robes, ANH

    [image=http://www.imnotbitter.net/leia/top.jpg]
    Leia's Bespin outfit, ESB



    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/lukeskywalker/img/movie_bg.jpg]
    Luke's Tatooine outfit

    [image=http://anakinskywalker1.homestead.com/files/anipose.jpg]
    Anakin's Tatooine outfit

    [image=http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/multimedia/image/reference/vd-01.jpg]
    Boba Fett

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/bobafett/img/movie2_bg.jpg]
    Young Boba and Jango Fett




  23. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    Lightsaber designs(Pics mainly from Bsquared's page:

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/jinn-sab.jpg]
    Qui-Gon Jinn

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/tpmob1.jpg]
    Obi-Wan's Prequel saber

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/bensab.jpg]
    Obi-Wan's OT Saber

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/anaksab1.jpg]
    Anakin's saber

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/vad-ph3.jpg]
    Vader's saber, ANH version

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/vadsab2.jpg]
    Vader's saber, ESB and ROTJ version

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/mundi-sab.jpg]
    Ki-Adi-Mundi's saber

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/gallia-sab.jpg]
    Adi Gallia's saber

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc/jocasta/img/mace_saber_bg.jpg]
    Eoth Koth's saber

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/luk-ph3.jpg]
    Luke's saber

    [image=http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/mstaff.jpg]
    Maul's lightsaber

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/episode-ii/feature/20011219/img/tysaber3_bg.jpg]
    Anonymous AOTC saber

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/collecting/news/2002/09/img/mr_dooku_bg.jpg]
    Dooku's saber

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc/jocasta/img/mace_saber2_bg.jpg]
    Mace's saber

    [image=http://www.starwars.com/collecting/news/2002/03/img/mr_yodasaber_bg.jpg]
    Yoda's lightsaber

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