Speculation The Sith in Disney Trilogy

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by CoolyFett, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    That it was Anakin's selfishness, his willingness to murder others to save someone he "can't live without" that led to the destruction of the Jedi Order and the rise of the Empire.

    Whereas it was Luke's unselfishness, his willingness to sacrifice himself to redeem Anakin, that led to the destruction of Palpatine and the fall of the Empire.
    benknobi1 likes this.
  2. Lord Optimus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2011
    star 2
    I just hope the villain is a Sith and not a Dark Jedi, I would rather a Sith show up out of nowhere then have another Jedi go bad, we've already seen that twice. Hopefully this new Sith says to hell with the rule of two and has a small group/army of Sith.
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  3. Lord TW Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2012
    star 2
    Good people get tempted by the dark side, but always stay good. Turning Leia dark would severely disrupt the integrity of the franchise.
  4. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    "in Disney Trilogy"
    Oh god...
    Last edited by GGrievous, Jan 4, 2013
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  5. MrFantastic74 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2010
    star 4
    I've got tickets to Disney's "Sith on Ice". The kids will love it.
  6. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    Darth Vader on skates, dancing with Princess Leia. The music in the background: Beauty and the Beast.
    Last edited by GGrievous, Jan 4, 2013
  7. fishtailsam Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    not trying to be tehtchy, but who was the second, after Vader?
  8. startravellerearth Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2012
    star 1
    Why not have a treacherous jedi who masters the ways of the dark side in secret/behind Luke's back? Then Luke and Ben would do their best to stop him from bringing back the Sith.
    Or...
    Perhaps a child descended from Sidious who is trying to bring back the Sith in the forms of Dark Jedi.
  9. Lord Optimus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2011
    star 2
    Count Dooku
  10. benknobi1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2002
    star 6
    I hope Mara Jade shows up out of nowhere :D[face_love]
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  11. SoWizard Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 1
    Look, let's stop pretending that the main enemy isn't going to be the Sith. They will be back in some capacity you can count on that.

    We don't need the Emperor to be cloned for the Sith to come back. In Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter when the main villian's physical form is destroyed he comes back in some way whether it be the use of Voldemort's horcruxes or Sauron's spirit becoming the Eye of Sauron.

    Palpatine doesn't need to come back in a physical role right away, he can be some sort of wraith or negative energy. And who knows what he is capable of in this form? If a Jedi can guide characters as a force ghost then a powerful Sith could totally tempt and pry characters.

    It's not too hard to imagine that a powerful Sith such as Palpatine with all the time he spent safely in power with Vader doing his dirty work could have found a way to live on after death. A Sith's legacy is based on the power that they gain, it's not unlikely that Sidious would try to outdo the powers of Plageuis. "He could keep others from dying, but not himself"

    Besides, what the hell was that blue stuff that shot out of the hole when Vader tossed Palpy in? Some sort of energy it looked like. I don't know, they could work with that.

    P.S. Anakin's force ghost fighting Sidious's force wraith, HELL YEAH.
  12. benknobi1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2002
    star 6
    That "Blue energy stuff" was palpatine exploding.
    Dead.
  13. SoWizard Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 1
    The second Death Star’s diameter has been calculated to be roughly 900 ± 100 km; Wookieepedia offers a fall distance of 400 km for the Emperor. However, basic physics don’t support the idea that the Emperor fell all the way to the centre of the second Death Star, as claimed by multiple sources including Wookieepedia.

    The problem is that if the Emperor is falling down the shaft at a speed consistent with the Earth-normal gravity seen in inhabited portions of the Death Star (and he certainly appears to be falling at that approximate rate of speed), then Emperor Palpatine’s 400 kilometre fall would take 285.6 seconds (4 minutes, 45.6 seconds), not the 7 seconds we see onscreen. You may argue that dramatic licence edits out all but seven seconds of his fall, but if Palpatine fell for that distance, then two seconds before his death he would be travelling at a speed of 2775 metres per second, or 9991 kilometres per hour, over 8 times the speed of sound. Were he travelling that quickly, his pre-impact fall would be visible for only a fraction of a second in the footage we see; we also wouldn’t be able to hear his scream until well after his death, assuming we could even hear it at all. Falling at that speed in an air-bearing environment would cause him to be torn to shreds anyway.

    This also ignores the effects of terminal velocity due to air resistance — and the shaft must have air in it, because we can hear Palpatine’s screams, see his robe fluttering in the wind, and there is no barrier between the shaft and the throne room to keep out a vacuum. In his face-down, limbs-spread position, Palpatine would reach terminal velocity of ~195 kph relatively quickly, which would mean his descent to the centre of the Death Star would take more than two hours. I seriously doubt Luke and Vader would lie on the floor that long, or that the Rebel fleet would just politely hang around waiting for the Emperor to finish falling.

    In order for Palpatine to fall all the way to the centre of the Death Star in the amount of time seen onscreen, the gravity within the Death Star’s shaft would have to be 40.8 times Earth normal gravity. Within that gravity field, Palpatine would have an apparent mass of over 3000 kg; not only would his bones shatter instantly, he’d also be completely unable to breathe, much less cry out in terror as he does in the film. You can argue that the Force would enable him to survive, but there’s still the problem of his apparent rate of fall onscreen, which is more or less consistent with a person falling in Earth-normal gravity.

    Based on the onscreen evidence and simple physics, it therefore seems impossible for Palpatine’s death to be a result of him falling to the centre of the Death Star and impacting the main reactor. Palpatine’s onscreen fall lasts only a fraction over 7 seconds from the moment he is no longer in physical contact with Vader to the time his body vanishes. During a fall of that length, Palpatine would reach less than 90 percent of terminal velocity, or “only” about 50 metres per second (180 kph) at the end of his fall.

    Ignoring the effects of air resistance gives a more “optimistic” 68.7 metres/second (247.5 kph) velocity at the end of his fall, and his seven-second fall would equal approximately 241 metres of travel. This appears more or less consistent with onscreen evidence, as Palpatine’s body is tiny but still visible in the two film frames prior to the “blue explosion”.

    Based on this, there are several possible causes of death for Emperor Palpatine.

    1. Impact with the side of the shaft or an intervening catwalk. Not at all supported by onscreen evidence.

    2. Coronary failure or other shock-induced death. Evidence for this is difficult if not impossible to determine, but it’s worth noting that the Emperor stops screaming and his Force lightning ceases around a second or two prior to the explosion.

    3. Impact at the bottom of a shaft, after a fall of at most a couple hundred metres. This is the most likely cause of Palpatine’s death based on the onscreen evidence. The spire of the Emperor’s throne room appears to rise about 200-250 metres above the surface of the Death Star (making it about 50 metres taller than the Space Needle in Seattle). It’s entirely possible (even likely, given the Emperor’s paranoia) that the throne room and its spire has its own independent power source. Palpatine’s impact at the glowing bottom of the shaft could be consistent with striking the spire’s own independent reactor rather than the main reactor of the Death Star itself.

    For Palpatine to fall all the way to the Death Star’s centre in the time shown onscreen (7 seconds) and at his apparent rate of fall (more or less consistent with Earth gravity), this would mean the Death Star’s radius is only a couple hundred metres — entirely inconsistent with every bit of literature regarding the massive battle station.

    The thought of the Emperor falling all the way to the centre of the Death Star may have a more dramatic feeling to it than the idea of him dying after a fall of only a couple hundred metres, but unfortunately it’s just not plausible given the onscreen evidence and basic physics.
    Last edited by SoWizard, Jan 9, 2013
  14. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    While I agree with most of the post, I would point out that:
    the calculations have been disputed. The Death Star 2's size varies a lot from scene to scene- some of the screenshots of it next to the Forest Moon suggest a much smaller size relative to it, than the ratio Curtis Saxton gives of 11.5:1. Since it's in front of the Forest Moon in the one shot that does have that ratio, it's more than a planetary radius "closer to the camera" than the Forest Moon is- since both objects are spherical.

    The current canonical size of the Forest Moon is a mere 4900 km- so even if the 11.5:1 ratio was correct, the 900 km figure would be iffy.
    SoWizard likes this.
  15. SoWizard Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 1
    My friend, we have successfully destroyed this thread with SCIENCE!

    *SoWizard and Iron_Lord fly away safely in the Millenium Falcon whilst the thread explodes behind them*
    WOOOOHOOHOOO!!! THAT WAS SOOOO WIZARD, IRON LORD!!!
    Last edited by SoWizard, Jan 9, 2013
  16. awesomejedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    I don't think she will turn to the darkside because we've never seen anything from her that would suggest her falling to the dark side, while Anakin was clearly portrayed as falling to the dark side. For instance when after she was tortured she never showed a sign of weakness. She never wanted revenge or anything. She just finished what she set out to do in the first place. That is my opinion.
  17. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    She is a little vengeful toward Lando after Han's death- making no effort to restrain Chewie until Lando gasps that there's still a chance to save Han.
  18. benknobi1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2002
    star 6
    but again, she could have easily "justifiably" killed Lando then and didn't.
  19. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Considering that Wookiees are supposed to be able to pull arms out of sockets, Chewie may simply be having a Homer Simpson moment rather that actually trying to kill Lando.
    Jedi Merkurian and Darth Chiznuk like this.
  20. Jerran Tankarri Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2013
    The Banite Sith should be gone from the sequels. I'm sure we will see dark jedi though :D
  21. benknobi1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2002
    star 6
    I don't see anything wrong with Sith who follow the teachings of Darth Bane.
  22. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Clone Wars cartoon three episodes "Overlords", "Altar Of Mortis" and "Ghost Of Mortis" were as entertaining as they explored non Jedi/Sith force users but I'd still like to see Sith and Jedi in the new films.





    The clone wars cartoon when it focuses on Sith (the emperor/darth maul) is also entertaining. The Nightsisters episodes were great as well. I could accept the new films using a combination of Sith, Nightsisters, "The Ones" and Jedi. Jedi being attacked from 3 or four various force using villains. Still want to see Sith though but it might be even more epic to have various villains who are a serious threat to the galaxy and Jedi. A sort of 'dark alliance'. It could be any combination of things so long as there are Sith and the dark side is explored more in the new films, as well as Jedi culture. Less focus on politics and more focus on darkside vs Jedi.
    Last edited by Darth kRud, Jan 10, 2013
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  23. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    This will not happen simply because, although I do believe that the Big 3 will sign on for Ep VII and maybe even VIII and IX, none of them are going to be the main characters as far as plot goes. For Leia to turn would have to make her the antagonist for the ST. I love Carrie to death, but this would be way too much, and would not serve the series well at all.

    We will see Sith, returning not out of thin air, but rather returning via established PT elements IMO.
  24. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    What's the difference?
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  25. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Perhaps a Sith cult is in order-not Sith, but "evil" senators were the subject of concept art for TPM-creepy-looking dudes with facial tattoos. I could easily see a cabal of Senators who, while not Force-sensitive, worship and follow Sith doctrines being potentially intriguing.