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The Sith Reborn

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Darth_Magus, Jan 21, 2010.

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  1. Darth_Magus

    Darth_Magus Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2002

    In the films Anakin Skywalker brings balance to the force by destroying the Sith, my question is this...

    Why can't a new Sith Order be born?

     
  2. GrandAdmiral_Frank

    GrandAdmiral_Frank Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 26, 2003
    I thought it was. I am behind on my EU but check out Legacy I think.
     
  3. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Ok..lol.


    Surprise!


    On a less amused note, I'm not sure that movie Sith (if you strip away the EU) could come back. Sith are defined from Dark Jedi (in the EU, anyway) by typically being patient evil who have long-range plans and access to secret knowledge about the Dark Side that your regular !crazy! Jedi didn't have access to. With Palpatine and Vader both dead I don't see how anybody could really be a 'true' Sith, although of course there's nothing stopping people from using the name 'Sith'.
     
  4. Duragizer

    Duragizer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Find an evil tome chock-full of Sithy goodness and ... presto!
     
  5. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    Who says there's any evil Sithy tomes left available? If you go without the EU, (which, granted, I've said you really can't do in other threads here, but let's play pretend for a moment) then it would appear Palpatine kept all his information in his head.
     
  6. Darth_Nub

    Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Two reasons:

    - the prophecy of the Chosen One was predicated on 'bringing balance to the Force'. As it turned out, the Chosen One actually became a Sith, then destroyed the order from within, by killing his master & sacrificing himself. If the order can simply start again from scratch, he's basically achieved nothing, & he & his actions are hardly worthy of a prophecy.

    - what made the Sith particularly sinister & apparently powerful was the fact that they were able to survive for a thousand years with no more than two at a time. The obvious risk of being eliminated was ridiculously high, so their survival is that much more impressive, & clearly they can pose a threat to the entire Jedi Order & the Republic itself. Again, if the order can just start again, the impact of this survival against the odds, & therefore, their apparent power, is diminished.

    These are dramatic reasons, not logistical reasons - of course a new Sith order could be reborn. Doesn't mean it's a good idea for a story, it detracts from what came before.

    If you're looking for an in-story explanation, I'd be inclined to believe that all the Sith teachings were passed from master to apprentice by word-of-mouth & never recorded, so once both are dead, all Sith lore is gone from the galaxy.

    A better question would be, "Why can't you EU hacks come up with your own name for a new order of Dark Side Force users?"

    (Incidentally, if they want to plunder old drafts of the movies for names, the first they'll jump on is Bogan - originally the light side was called Ashla, the dark side Bogan. Really, really bad idea - any SW works using that name will be laughed straight out of Australia. Bogan is a widely-used name for trailer trash & rednecks)
     
  7. Eternity85

    Eternity85 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Darth_Nub

    Two reasons:

    - the prophecy of the Chosen One was predicated on 'bringing balance to the Force'. As it turned out, the Chosen One actually became a Sith, then destroyed the order from within, by killing his master & sacrificing himself. If the order can simply start again from scratch, he's basically achieved nothing, & he & his actions are hardly worthy of a prophecy.

    - what made the Sith particularly sinister & apparently powerful was the fact that they were able to survive for a thousand years with no more than two at a time. The obvious risk of being eliminated was ridiculously high, so their survival is that much more impressive, & clearly they can pose a threat to the entire Jedi Order & the Republic itself. Again, if the order can just start again, the impact of this survival against the odds, & therefore, their apparent power, is diminished.

    These are dramatic reasons, not logistical reasons - of course a new Sith order could be reborn. Doesn't mean it's a good idea for a story, it detracts from what came before.



    I agree, and well said. The Sith as they were can never be reborn. So if a new faction of dark side users should rise, they do not necessarily need to be named Sith. That would IMO serve as a foul insult to the Sith name.
     
  8. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2008

    I thought that Anakin had brought balance to the Force by being the catalyst in the destruction of both the Old Jedi Order in the Prequel Trilogy and in the destruction of the Old Sith Order in the Original Trilogy.

    Personally, I don't see how the existence of a Jedi Order and the lack of existence of a Sith Order could be regarded as balance. They are two sides of one coin, as far as I'm concerned. Will the two orders eventually co-existence in EU stories set in the future? If so, perhaps they will realize on a subconscious level that they need each other to maintain a balance or keep the other in check, instead of trying to destroy each other.
     
  9. Duragizer

    Duragizer Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 23, 2009
    Three words : reuse, reduce, recycle.

    Emphasis on the reduce. [face_plain]
     
  10. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    To be honest, I don't believe that the prophecy of the Chosen One anticipated that Anakin would become a Sith, and usher in the reign of the Sith. The Chosen One prophecy needs balancing out with this; Anakin balanced the Force, yes, but not before he entrenched the dark side in the galaxy... there have to be consequences.

    A reign of thirty years of evil is going to leave roots of evil. All the threats we've encountered, or had resurface, are direct consequences of the Empire leaving behind dozens of darksiders, with no Jedi to stop them all, and the darksiders have had years if not decades to nurture various eddies of evil and destruction, and resurrect full blown chaos. That's the EU making a point.

    Without the thirty years of evil, Darth Vader would never have trained an apprentice, who would never of corrupted Jacen Solo, and during his reign Centerpoint Station was destroyed and as a direct consequence Abeloth was released; without his reign, the Sphere would never have been rediscovered; and the Lost Tribe would never have been found. Without the thirty years of evil, dozens of Dark Jedi would not have existed, and convalesced into various threats, or dug for older power, or connected the dots between the various dark powers to create these new Sith Orders we have to face. All these remnants of the Sith would have died out, or been eventually extinguished in their own time by a strong and powerful Jedi Order.

    Instead, Order 66 and the Empire happened.

    We can't ignore the fact that Darth Vader happened.
     
  11. ZEM

    ZEM Jedi Knight star 2

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    Sep 3, 2009
    I think that when Darth Vader turned back to the Light Side and his Anakin Skywalker self, destroying the Sith, that was supposed to be a miraculous redemption of Anakin as well as the whole galaxy. I think that the whole galaxy was supposed to be free of the Dark Side from then on. (Perhaps a Christianity reference on George Lucas' part?)
     
  12. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Which doesn't account for an Empire ruling the galaxy for twenty five years, and even in the semi-Lucas-verse (i.e. Force Unleashed, Clone Wars) there are more than two Sith, and millions of clones running around... so the Empire has tons of Dark Jedi and clone troopers and Star Destroyers... and collapses in Return of the Jedi... it doesn't reaaaally work.
     
  13. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    I like this idea. It makes things nice and tidy and also makes sense as many secret societies have knowledge that is spoken, gestured, etc. I also like it because it makes the sith evil more in-person instead of in a book or an object(calling the Kaiber crystal...hello?). Makes the evil more alive and not just some scary book.
     
  14. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon

    Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2000
    Also keep in mind that the Sith of the movies are actually a revision - or depending on your POV, perversion - of the original Sith.

    If you think of KoTOR-era Sith as Judaism and Bane-through-movie-era Sith as Christianity, there's no reason the post-OT EU can't develop a Sith Islam.
     
  15. StampidHD280pro

    StampidHD280pro Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2005
    Interesting analogy. If the secrets of the movie-Sith are perversions of the true Dark Side, the Dark Side is left to reveal itself through a profit. Do the post-OT Sith get divine evil through the force itself, or have they simply gathered bits and pieces of Sith lore?
     
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