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Discussion The St: What Would You Change/Revise?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by EzraSnoke, Dec 27, 2017.

  1. godisawesome

    godisawesome Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Totally understandable. Since I've gone at length over my issues with the Resistance plot elsewhere, I kind of knew there was no way I could avoid changing some fundamental issues, especially when I realized that the ideas behind the deleted material appealed to me far more than anything we got in the film proper.

    Add in the part where I was going to try overhauling the island section... Well, this is basically no longer a "what would Johnson's second draft look like with a partner he'd compromise with" and more like a "Rian, the studio likes your ideas, but we think having someone else writing the script for your story would be better."
     
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  2. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Yup! Good luck though and enjoy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  3. godisawesome

    godisawesome Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Thanks for the thread.

    Okay, I know I didn't mention this earlier, and I'm out of chronological order now, but here's some light changes I'd make to Snoke and Kylo's first scene:

    -Snoke adds some originality to his reprimand and picks up the training thread from TFA by declaring Kylo's turmoil and lack of focus as his weakness, outright saying that it cost him his fight with Rey. He'd also tie that into why Kylo had info ripped from *his* mind when he interrogated Rey. Snoke orders Kylo to meditate and train to control the storm within and guard his mind.

    (When I continue my rewrite, I'm going to use this to set up a larger character arc for Kylo to add some power to the throne room duel.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  4. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    I would have Rey be a Solo and was also a young student at Luke's Academy. It would be nice for Luke's academy to have a student that wasn't murdered nor fell to the darkside. Creating a connection with her already to Luke, helping to explain some of her abilities, and not making his academy a complete failure. Also the skywalker bloodline could have a positive future if Ben never becomes good again. Perhaps give us another student who survived on the side of good. The one who helped Rey escape Ben's rampage.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  5. godisawesome

    godisawesome Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    I have my own Rey Related response I'd like to do at some point, but for right now, I'm going to stick to my "Remix" rule and try to maintain RJ's personal objectives, but increase plotting and characterization.

    So, on to Finn and Rose on Canto Bight.

    Objectives from original script: expose Finn to a new world of opulence before revealing it's darker underside, have Rose give some backstory, meet up with DJ, cause some damage to Canto Bight, introduce little kids, deal with war profiteering. Bonus objective from intial scene plans: plant seeds for Rose and Finn being attracted to each other, but not enough to immediately counter Rey and Finn fans.

    Problems from the original: The Master Codebreaker is a giant waste of time, DJ, while well acted and fun, is clearly not someone you should pick up for a mission from a drunk tank when your first plan falls apart, Rose and Finn's interactions are still rather pedestrian and very little is done to advance Finn's character arc; he doesn't experience a character change, he just gets a bit more education and reacts the way we'd expect him to. There's also the fairly trite way the kids and space horses are handled, and the perplexing attempt to portray a stampede as being a positive but no attempt made to free the little kids.

    - So, first off, we are again going to Canto Bight looking for DJ *specifically*. So we don't waste time on the Codebreaker. Also, since RJ really wanted initially to have the characters dress up and try to blend in, I think that might be cooler here as well; Finn and Rose get gussied up, and while still more antagonistic towards each other than in the intial film, I would have them get some moments to appreciate how they each look cleaned up.
    - Rose takes the lead in searching the Casino and blending in; Finn gets some humor from his inexperience and constant dazzlement. They find DJ, who's drunk and rowdy at the tables, and start trying to recruit him. Rose reveals that DJ is playing an arms dealer, and DJ drunkenly refuses to leave until he gets his winnings back. So Rose minds DJ while Finn goes off to get DJ's money back, though Rose expresses consternation at him leaving her sight.
    - Finn follows the arms dealer and stumbles on to him haggling with Captain Phasma over the price for the children at the farthier stables; we're building up Phasma here to be a clear personal antagonist that Finn hates, and we're going to emphasize the little kids a bit more. Finn sees that most of the kids, save the chief stable boy, have been sold and determines to save them after picking the gun runner's pocket.
    - Meanwhile, Rose and DJ get arrested after DJ does something stupid and impulsive and Rose can't bride the officer. She sends BB8 off to get Finn... Only for him to plop into the cell shortly afterwards, having freed the kids but been caught by the gun runner because he hung around too long.
    - Finn and Rey have a brief argument where Finn exposes his vulnerability towards losing friends, citing Paige, Rey, and Trips from TFA. Rose begins to understand his point of view, while Finn sheepishly apologies for screwing up twice when it comes to priorities, but doesn't tell her exactly what delayed his return here.
    - DJ wakes up from their arguing, and is now in-gear for their mission, breaking them out but still insisting on getting his money back if they want a ride on his ship. So Finn and Rose ambush and beat up the gunrunner, but are chased by the cops. They hide in the stables, where the last remaining stable boy recognizes what Finn did for his friends, sees Rose's ring, and let's them break open the stables and escape during the stampede.
    - They hook up with DJ, give him his money, and prepare to infiltrate The Supremacy. There's a scene I want here where they change into uniforms from DJ's stash, and Rose sees Finn's back wound and grimaces in sympathy, one that I'm going to bring up next post when dealing with Rey's training. While on the ship, DJ recognizes that Finn's a former stormtrooper and marvels at Finn, giving him the "Don't Join" speech here and pointing out how he facilitated both Resistance and First Order operations, and he was far from alone. He basically does the same scene, but now, he's got a reason to look at Finn as a possible kindred spirit, revealing he was a former Republic officer before getting sold out by by his superiors.
     
  6. Random Ax of Kindness

    Random Ax of Kindness Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2018
    I'm going to follow the @Satipo portion of this thread, in terms of TLJ. I'm not a "hater" of TLJ, per se, but I am what you might call a "malcontent". I actually think RJ's outline isn't too bad, but I think lots of changes are in order.

    MY PERSONAL LIST OF ISSUES:
    1) Time scale. Having the FO conquer the Galaxy in two days is absurd.
    2) No training/relationship between Rey and Luke. The film is missing that critical emotional component.
    3) Not enough reason for Luke to stay on Ahch-to. "Going here to die" doesn't cut it for me.
    4) No utilization of Jedi Temple. It's set dressing in TLJ, needs to change.
    5) Lack of characterization and bonds of friendship. Character development for Poe, Finn, and Rey really lackluster. No mention of friendship between R2/Chewy and Luke. Rose's sister is grieved over more than Han, which is...ergh.
    6) Slow-moving chase too problematic. Aside from the "fuel" thing, too many plot holes. Why doesn't the FO jump ahead and overwhelm the Raddus? Why not swarm the Raddus with Ties now that the fighter bay has been destroyed? Etc.
    7) Krayt climax is underwhelming. It's a lowering of the stakes rather than raising, since Rey isn't directly involved. And the action isn't that great.
    8) Holdo's kamikaze maneuver too problematic. Renders previous space battles and future space battles irrelevant.
    9) Lack of development for Phasma. Wasted character.
    10) Lack of grandeur/scale. I don't get the sense that any of the galaxy is involved. Just these handful of ships.
    11) Inappopriate humor. YMMV on this.
    12) Lack of moving the plot forward. Seriously, IX could open with the crawl mentioning that Luke and Snoke are dead, and the entirety of VIII could be skipped. Thanks to all the failure and dead ends, a good half of TLJ is wasted space.

    So, my fix? (Skip the rest of this post if you don't care to read an edit.) An outline follows, with bracketed sentences being scenes remaining unaltered from TLJ.

    OPENING CRAWL
    After the destruction of Hosnian Prime and Starkiller Base, the FIRST ORDER and the REPUBLIC have retreated into an uneasy stalemate. Under Chancellor Holdo, the REPUBLIC has relocated to the old capital of Coruscant. The FIRST ORDER is regrouping in unknown regions of the galaxy, waiting for its chance to strike. Meanwhile, the RESISTANCE has moved its base onto the remote mineral planet of KRAYT...

    ACT I
    Pan down to lone skimmer, cutting red path through Krayt. It lands at base and Poe and BB-8 disembark. At this moment, Finn wakes from his coma. He is greeted enthusiastically by Poe and Rose and told he has been down for nearly half a year. He asks where Rey is and they reply they've been receiving one-way communications from her (one-way because the Resistance doesn't want to give away Luke's location). Finn sits at the communication device and starts to read the messages from the beginning...

    Cut to Rey voice-over, talking about her first day on Ahch-to and how it isn't what she expected, as the last shots of her climbing the steps from TFA are on screen. She hands saber to Luke, as before. Luke brusquely cuts her off by saying she knows why she's there, and turns away from her to kneel before gravestone. Rey pleads for Luke to come aid the Resistance and he refuses, eventually walking away and telling her to leave. Rey continues voice-over, saying how she's spent several days to convince Luke to come, to no avail. [Scenes of Luke going about his hermit day from TLJ follow. R2 shows Luke Leia's old message which convinces him to train Rey, as per TLJ.] Rey voice-over continues, how she's spent several months training with Luke and how he teaches her everything about the Force and the Jedi and Sith. Shots of Luke and Rey training together, meditating together, him forcing Rey to fish and milk, which she does grudgingly, etc. This is intercut with shots of Finn eating lunch in different clothes while continuing to read the messages, showing passage of time. At the close of the messages, she's in her hut, looking out the window wistfully.
    REY (voice): And if Finn's woken up by now, tell him... I think of him. And tell him I miss him.
    (FINN smiles as he touches the screen of the communication device gently.)
    (POE barges in)
    POE: Hey, loverboy.
    (FINN starts guiltily, covering up the screen in embarrassment.)
    POE: Come on, time for your patrol.
    (FINN nods, coughs, and quickly exits the room while POE is grinningly leering at him all the while. He walks alongside FINN as FINN is getting ready to board the skimmer.)
    POE: So. Do you think you got the handle of flying?
    FINN: Yeah...it's not as hard as I thought it would be.
    POE: I have to say, you're an amazingly quick learner.
    FINN: Well, you know. I got a great teacher.
    POE (spreads his hands wide): Hey, THAT goes without saying.
    (FINN laughs and nudges POE with his elbow. POE, grinning, punches FINN's arm playfully. FINN climbs the ladder to the skimmer.)
    POE: Take care, buddy.

    Wipe cut to blue planet with caption TAR'KALA. A very cold planet that is a trade hub (show this by full markets populated by people in thick jackets and occasional masks, a great whale creature with a giant howdah strapped to its back and filled with people coming in to dock at a harbor, etc.). A poorly-shaven human enters a bar and seeks out a female Twi'lek. They exchange obvious code words and both, with the help of a couple of other bar patrons, furtively enter a back room. They exchange information: the man tells the Twi'lek about new shipments of arms and new divisions of soldiers ready to be deployed. The Twi'lek tells him about some grave Resistance losses elsewhere and that the FO is secretly going to launch an assault on Coruscant, and that Leia must be alerted. Man wonders aloud why the FO is getting so many resources, and the Twi'lek answers that just about all the wealthy interests of the galaxy seem to be lining up behind the FO.

    At this point, Phasma enters the bar, saying, "I'm here to clean out some vermin." Several patrons take out their blasters and fire, but the blasts all ricochet off her harmlessly. They then close combat and attack her with weapons, but she beats them all down without much effort, even electrocuting a man with her staff and flinging him against the wall. While this is happening, the man frantically takes out a communication device, types in it, unholsters his blaster, and fires several shots into it. Phasma enters the backroom and demands to know where Leia is. The Twi'lek attacks with a knife and Phasma breaks her neck. The man, huddled in a corner, says, "Let me spare you the trouble," and points the blaster at his head. Cut to Phasma as the reflection of the man's blaster shot is visible in her plating. She spits out, "Cowards, every last one of them." As stormtroopers file into the back room, she picks up the blasted device and asks for a salvage team.

    Wow, this is getting long! I think for everyone's sanity, I'll break this up in different posts. I'll continue with other Acts later.
     
  7. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    I like this! I suggested this also. Geopolitical (or should it be Spacialpolitical I wonder haha), exposition is needed. One solution could be to have the primary arm of the Empire (those that were not nutcase like the First Order splinter group), to still be in existence in the Core, on Coruscant. That they waited and yearned for a Skywalker to be their true Heir to lead them (having discovered that Luke/Leia were the offspring of Vader). Though their forces are reduced, they have some Star Destroyers (albeit with technology from the OT) and able to assist to some extent. Maybe help not coming from so called "rebel" sympathisers, but the old Imperial Remnant at the film's conclusion. At the moment, the galaxy in the ST feels so small, versus the OT and PT. And the saga doesn't tie together.

    My suggestion:

    Interesting idea! I like it. Assuming the story stays roughly the same right? I do hope this was George Lucas' story though and I kinda wonder when I see what people posted here about Mark Hamil. I feel like Mark might provide us with the best answer for what should go down!

    But I think:

    1. Humour - I loved what Luke did with that leaf on Rey's hand. Feel the Force. I would have liked to see R2-D2 also use his electric shock. Actually an R2-D2 and BB8 versus a single First Order droid with a dual shocker (like a dual lightsaber) fight scene on Coruscant should be in this film haha. I think, humour by Luke and Rey was decent. Finn, not so sure, needs to be dialled back. Leia was fantastic.

    2. The Hut, I'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean the Flashback? If so, I think we needed much much much more flashback (this should have been done in Episode VII). So for starters, a rough explanation of how Luke wanted to accept an offer by the main faction of the Empire to become its heir to ensure a peaceful transition back to the ways of old, whilst maintaining whatever good the Empire had. The extreme faction of the Empire against it, as also was the corrupt Mothma led element of the Rebellion. The greediness of the new Senate, making Luke feel a need for the Jedi to be separate from galactic politics. The Skywalker heritage publically leaked to the Holonet. Ben and others finding out about Vader not from their parents or uncle, but from others. Ben feeling a need for the Jedi to do what was necessary and take on the family heritage/mantle. Luke later in the film explaining who Snoke was. I loved the mention of Sidious' rising. So mention Snoke being his real name, but who he was, he found out too late. Plageuis. Or Windu. Show us the corruption of Ben Solo, and THAT is why Luke went to confront him. Perhaps Ben lost a fellow student, a love interest, by disobeying both a Republic Order and Luke's principles of non interference, when he led an expedition (of his Knights of Ren, named after a Ren, a bird of action) to a world to fight off gangsters attempting to emulate his uncle's success against Jabba the Hutt. Have Luke not attempt to kill Ben, but Ben sees Luke and his wife Iden, attempting to kill Snoke, the only one who believed in him (having created the situation of villagers being attacked by the gangsters in the first place), and Ben jumping to his aid, then shocked as Luke is knocked out in the collapsing hut and Iden is mortally wounded. Conflicted as Anakin was at his betrayal of Windu in ROTS. Snoke too weak and mortally wounded by Skywalker and flees with Ben. Later tells Ben to purge himself of the past and arise anew as the Empire will, by not repeating its weaknesses of peacekeeping, but simply being FIRSTLY ABOUT ORDER. Luke WOKEN UP by R2-D2 and he sees his dying wife Iden Versio (to hell with the BF2 non trailer story) speak her last words to save Reyla, their daughter.

    3. Both Ren and Luke showing expostion/flashbacks about the Jedi Temple being razed. Ben turning on his friends, struggling, but leading his Knights of Ren doing what has to be done. (These are the other students who believe in what he says). They offer the students in the Temple to "JOIN US, OR DIE." A friend of Ben's much younger resists, and Ben thinks he kills him, along with their leaders, by collapsing a wall on them, but one survives without his knowledge. In the process, he accidentally pulled down a column on his baby cousin (Luke's daughter) Reyla Skywalker. he becomes enraged that the Jedi made him do this and immediately starts killing them. The ruthlessness and experience of his older Knights of Ren mean that the mainly younger Jedi stand no chance. The Temple is razed to the ground. Luke arrives with R2-D2 in horror to see his Temple burning. But he feels that not all are dead. He uses the Force to extinguish the fire from rains from above. He walks in to see several Jedi younglings survived by virtue of their own skills. Firstly, a youngling called Poe who had exceptional pilot skills and flew a Jedi starfighter from the hangar into a small cavern to hide. Another Jedi female youngling (to be played by Anna Akana in TLJ, or else Rose), who always hides from view, who uses a Force bubble to obscure herself in an invisible bubble, having ran away and hid out of fear. The other boy Jedi, Ren's friend who's lightsaber skills allowed him to activate it and time his fall down the cliffs below. And Reyla, who's prowess with the Force was awoken, when she held the column above her (like Yoda in AOTC) without anyone realising. Luke uses the Force to SUPPRESS the memories of these Students and is advised by Yoda, Obi Wan ghosts to look for the secrets of the Force hidden at the First Temple, to counter this dark sider who has not been destroyed yet, Palpatine's master Plageuis, aka Snoke. Leia takes on Poe and the Anna Akana girl/Rose. The boy is sent to live with a friend on an Imperial world. But his family's ship is attacked (the First Order offer Imperial Remnant officers a chance to join them or die) and the children kidnapped. Reyla is sent to trusted Senator Lor Sella, who goes to the obscure planet of Jakku, where she grows up in the village, unaware of her heritage, save for dreams of the Temple, a vision of an island, and hearing the legend of Luke Skywalker. She is away from the village when it is burnt by the First Order and discovers BB8 on her way home.

    4. Snoke, in TLJ, his reveal of who he is. Explanation of how he failed to see Palpatine turn on him, but was impressed. He retreated to the Outer Regions to further his study of conquering life, using what he discovered to prolong his own, though using the Dark Side at the expense of his physical form. He watched the Empire rise and fall. Heard of Skywalker. Or else, if he's Windu, have Windu disgusted with the Republic that betrayed the Jedi. He searches for the First Jedi texts, for the Secret of the Force vowing revenge. He finds a key, but not all of it, learning how to hide himself and prolong his life. He passionately believes now in using either Light or Dark, to do what must be done. And on the Empire's fall, believes in establishing Order first, no longer concerned with being human or kind. Either way, Seeing the Skywalkers' as a powerful bloodline to utilise. And that the Jedi could spark hope, so must be destroyed. Flashbacks of Palpatine's attack on him (whoever Snoke is). Have the IRONY of Snoke again failing to see his apprentice turn. And this time Ren is not arrogant like Palpatine who thought he killed him using Lightning. Ren snaps him in two with the Lightsaber. Have Snoke make his plan clear, total control. By force. And that the Starkiller base's weapon was created utilising a substance found on Jakku, which is why the Falcon was there, with Han and Chewie investigating for Leia.

    5. Luke's attitude improved by seeing his daughter survive. Having discovered the secrets he needed to. Accepting the lightsaber and realising who Rey is. Luke being optimistic. Being alive. Luke doing the whole fight scene, but actually being there. And projecting some Force field (literally) to block Kylo's saber from penetrating his torso. Or else, Luke distracting Kylo with a projection, whilst he was secretly on the mountain of the base, activating the Rebel base's ion pulse canon, which he fires, disabling all the FO vehicles, buying time. Or else, Luke having first stopped over on Coruscant, persuading the Imperial Remnant to join the fight and be their leader. Imperial Star Destroyers arriving on scene to fight alongside Leia and others and coordinate their escape.

    6. The FO Chase - have that Admiral Holdo be a traitor sharing their location. The mutiny scene was good keep it. The Bombers though, more respect paid to that pilot who sacrificed herself (Rose's sister). Perhaps have her having been a love interest so Poe feels it. Have her remembered and honoured. Alternatively have the chase scene end with the cruiser being self destructed to buy time, or act as a barrier/ shield against the ships fleeing out the side hangar. Have the Imperials roll up and the Resistance think this is it, it's over, then they see those Imperials firing on First Order ships, having responded to Leia's call, seeing her as the Heir to the Empire.

    7. Canto Bright I liked. I liked the Fathers. I didn't really need to go too much into the slavery thing. Glad we saw it. But should have explained how the REPUBLIC did NOTHING. NOTHING to stop this, just as corrupt as the Old Republic. Have the chase scene a bit shorter, because it felt a bit too Harry Potter at times haha. Eliminate the need for the original cryptographer. Have the original one be the guy who betrayed them. I liked his moral lessons for Finn. Keep that. Otherwise, if Holdo is a traitor, have the cryptographer replaced with someone who knows how to crack the First Order command network to override the Supremacy's weapons to fire on the rest of it's fleet (faster ships capable of catching up with the Resistance quicker).

    8. More exposition and recognition of the Jedi. Have the "Last Jedi" be plural. The Jedi younglings are rediscovered explaining their unique skills (Poe, pilot) etc. Rey realising her heritage and Ben realising who she is, she's his baby cousin. Or if really Rey is random, then Luke is alive and the main protagonist again. AND REY JOINS BEN. She goes to the dark side. Accepts her true destiny. But don't make her parents nobodies, make them someone. Certainly not drunks.


    True, but I'm surprised TFA and TLJ made it "through development" instead of Lucas' scripts. Watching them is entertaining for sure. No doubt about that. And so glad Star Wars is back. BUT, not at the expense of story. Watching the whole saga, and then this, feels like you're watching something else entirely. From any point of view we look at it. See my suggestion of a plot above. But I wish we saw GL's Star Wars Sequels.


    Yes I am not too keen on the saber toss. Nor on Rey beating Luke?! Unless she is his daughter. Not entirely sure on that scene with Luke drinking the blue milk. I mean maybe Luke may have gone into exile, because he missed his window of opportunity to pick up one of those power converters (i believe someone said they were a famous musical band of attractive women).

    I thought the stalling was good. They could have done something that was done in "A Bridge too far" where Hux says "We are ready to discuss terms of surrender" and Poe saying that the Resistance will only accept an unconditional surrender of Hux's forces.

    I think exposition of the galactic state of affairs is severely lacking. For instance, the Empire was legitimate. The First Order is not the Empire, nor legitimate. The Republic'
    I like. I think Rey should be a Skywalker though since this is a main saga about the family. To have a MAIN protagonist who isn't one is slightly off putting. And having her beat Luke etc, and yes I totally see the Mary Sue dynamic. Padme, Leia, Jyn Erso, were all great female characters and role models who grew/had flaws and learned things. They weren't Superman who were invincible from day one. Even Cal El/Clark Kent learnt things. But Rey, it's hard to feel any connection. I was half expecting them to have Rey have done the Kessel Run in just 1 parsec.

    Geopolitical/Spatiapolitical exposition was required as was given to us in both the OT and the PT. The ST galactic affairs situation is very messy and not clear at all. I wrote a suggestion below in my next reply to someone else. But I tried thinking along the lines of George Lucas. To be honest, I wish they would put Lucas' vision and story on the screen as the sequels. I'm sure he had a plan.

    But I thought about maybe the Empire, (primarily a peacekeeping organisation and the legitimate government) would have sought it's true heir, the offspring of Lord Vader. A few warlords and a splinter group (that becomes the First Order) would have helped in the Empire's undoing. Not to mention the Alliance. But the whole New Republic thing goes awry as the corrupt/cowardly elements of the Alliance (shown in Rogue One and demonstrated in the corruption of the Senate in the PT) emerges as its leadership under Mon Mothma. Sidelines Leia, Ackbar etc as warmongers and Imperial sympathisers when the Skywalker legacy/heritage is publicly revealed.

    The First Order's origin, Snoke's origin (hopefully Plageuis or Windu to tie the entire saga together) needs explanation by flashback, storytelling etc. For a RANDOM bad guy more powerful than what we have seen to just materialise makes Star Wars feel cheap and belittles all that has come before in the form of Palpatine, the great conflict between the Jedi and Sith etc. It makes the OT feel completely pointless.

    Show us the corruption of the Republic, its inability or simply apathetic attitude (like the Old Republic) in tackling corruption in its richer systems (Hosnian, Canto Bight etc), crime in the outer rim (Jakku, Tatooine etc) and in isolating the Inner Core of Coruscant etc and in still mishandling the Jedi (refusing to support Luke's new order). Show the First Order rise and how it manipulates the situation (Palpatine's master does a Palpatine plan) to make it look like the First Order are the only ones capable of tackling the crime and criminals in the galaxy.

    Basically the ST needs a well grounded story that LINKS this to the PT and OT. I suggested somethings below. But your post definitely sounds good. I am just sad that it seems they have ditched Lucas's scripts for a "let's make it up as we go along".

    I shall simply leave these writers with "Has anyone ever told you of the Tragedy of Darth Plagues the Wise? I thought not. It's not a story that lazy planners would tell you. It's an old Star Wars legend."

    It seems that they could save others from taking the easy path (just attach Star Wars name to any old story), but not themselves.


    I like this! I suggested this also. Geopolitical (or should it be Spacialpolitical I wonder haha), exposition is needed. One solution could be to have the primary arm of the Empire (those that were not nutcase like the First Order splinter group), to still be in existence in the Core, on Coruscant. That they waited and yearned for a Skywalker to be their true Heir to lead them (having discovered that Luke/Leia were the offspring of Vader). Though their forces are reduced, they have some Star Destroyers (albeit with technology from the OT) and able to assist to some extent. Maybe help not coming from so called "rebel" sympathisers, but the old Imperial Remnant at the film's conclusion. At the moment, the galaxy in the ST feels so small, versus the OT and PT. And the saga doesn't tie together.

    My suggestion:

    Interesting idea! I like it. Assuming the story stays roughly the same right? I do hope this was George Lucas' story though and I kinda wonder when I see what people posted here about Mark Hamil. I feel like Mark might provide us with the best answer for what should go down!

    But I think:

    1. Humour - I loved what Luke did with that leaf on Rey's hand. Feel the Force. I would have liked to see R2-D2 also use his electric shock. Actually an R2-D2 and BB8 versus a single First Order droid with a dual shocker (like a dual lightsaber) fight scene on Coruscant should be in this film haha. I think, humour by Luke and Rey was decent. Finn, not so sure, needs to be dialled back. Leia was fantastic.

    2. The Hut, I'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean the Flashback? If so, I think we needed much much much more flashback (this should have been done in Episode VII). So for starters, a rough explanation of how Luke wanted to accept an offer by the main faction of the Empire to become its heir to ensure a peaceful transition back to the ways of old, whilst maintaining whatever good the Empire had. The extreme faction of the Empire against it, as also was the corrupt Mothma led element of the Rebellion. The greediness of the new Senate, making Luke feel a need for the Jedi to be separate from galactic politics. The Skywalker heritage publically leaked to the Holonet. Ben and others finding out about Vader not from their parents or uncle, but from others. Ben feeling a need for the Jedi to do what was necessary and take on the family heritage/mantle. Luke later in the film explaining who Snoke was. I loved the mention of Sidious' rising. So mention Snoke being his real name, but who he was, he found out too late. Plageuis. Or Windu. Show us the corruption of Ben Solo, and THAT is why Luke went to confront him. Perhaps Ben lost a fellow student, a love interest, by disobeying both a Republic Order and Luke's principles of non interference, when he led an expedition (of his Knights of Ren, named after a Ren, a bird of action) to a world to fight off gangsters attempting to emulate his uncle's success against Jabba the Hutt. Have Luke not attempt to kill Ben, but Ben sees Luke and his wife Iden, attempting to kill Snoke, the only one who believed in him (having created the situation of villagers being attacked by the gangsters in the first place), and Ben jumping to his aid, then shocked as Luke is knocked out in the collapsing hut and Iden is mortally wounded. Conflicted as Anakin was at his betrayal of Windu in ROTS. Snoke too weak and mortally wounded by Skywalker and flees with Ben. Later tells Ben to purge himself of the past and arise anew as the Empire will, by not repeating its weaknesses of peacekeeping, but simply being FIRSTLY ABOUT ORDER. Luke WOKEN UP by R2-D2 and he sees his dying wife Iden Versio (to hell with the BF2 non trailer story) speak her last words to save Reyla, their daughter.

    3. Both Ren and Luke showing expostion/flashbacks about the Jedi Temple being razed. Ben turning on his friends, struggling, but leading his Knights of Ren doing what has to be done. (These are the other students who believe in what he says). They offer the students in the Temple to "JOIN US, OR DIE." A friend of Ben's much younger resists, and Ben thinks he kills him, along with their leaders, by collapsing a wall on them, but one survives without his knowledge. In the process, he accidentally pulled down a column on his baby cousin (Luke's daughter) Reyla Skywalker. he becomes enraged that the Jedi made him do this and immediately starts killing them. The ruthlessness and experience of his older Knights of Ren mean that the mainly younger Jedi stand no chance. The Temple is razed to the ground. Luke arrives with R2-D2 in horror to see his Temple burning. But he feels that not all are dead. He uses the Force to extinguish the fire from rains from above. He walks in to see several Jedi younglings survived by virtue of their own skills. Firstly, a youngling called Poe who had exceptional pilot skills and flew a Jedi starfighter from the hangar into a small cavern to hide. Another Jedi female youngling (to be played by Anna Akana in TLJ, or else Rose), who always hides from view, who uses a Force bubble to obscure herself in an invisible bubble, having ran away and hid out of fear. The other boy Jedi, Ren's friend who's lightsaber skills allowed him to activate it and time his fall down the cliffs below. And Reyla, who's prowess with the Force was awoken, when she held the column above her (like Yoda in AOTC) without anyone realising. Luke uses the Force to SUPPRESS the memories of these Students and is advised by Yoda, Obi Wan ghosts to look for the secrets of the Force hidden at the First Temple, to counter this dark sider who has not been destroyed yet, Palpatine's master Plageuis, aka Snoke. Leia takes on Poe and the Anna Akana girl/Rose. The boy is sent to live with a friend on an Imperial world. But his family's ship is attacked (the First Order offer Imperial Remnant officers a chance to join them or die) and the children kidnapped. Reyla is sent to trusted Senator Lor Sella, who goes to the obscure planet of Jakku, where she grows up in the village, unaware of her heritage, save for dreams of the Temple, a vision of an island, and hearing the legend of Luke Skywalker. She is away from the village when it is burnt by the First Order and discovers BB8 on her way home.

    4. Snoke, in TLJ, his reveal of who he is. Explanation of how he failed to see Palpatine turn on him, but was impressed. He retreated to the Outer Regions to further his study of conquering life, using what he discovered to prolong his own, though using the Dark Side at the expense of his physical form. He watched the Empire rise and fall. Heard of Skywalker. Or else, if he's Windu, have Windu disgusted with the Republic that betrayed the Jedi. He searches for the First Jedi texts, for the Secret of the Force vowing revenge. He finds a key, but not all of it, learning how to hide himself and prolong his life. He passionately believes now in using either Light or Dark, to do what must be done. And on the Empire's fall, believes in establishing Order first, no longer concerned with being human or kind. Either way, Seeing the Skywalkers' as a powerful bloodline to utilise. And that the Jedi could spark hope, so must be destroyed. Flashbacks of Palpatine's attack on him (whoever Snoke is). Have the IRONY of Snoke again failing to see his apprentice turn. And this time Ren is not arrogant like Palpatine who thought he killed him using Lightning. Ren snaps him in two with the Lightsaber. Have Snoke make his plan clear, total control. By force. And that the Starkiller base's weapon was created utilising a substance found on Jakku, which is why the Falcon was there, with Han and Chewie investigating for Leia.

    5. Luke's attitude improved by seeing his daughter survive. Having discovered the secrets he needed to. Accepting the lightsaber and realising who Rey is. Luke being optimistic. Being alive. Luke doing the whole fight scene, but actually being there. And projecting some Force field (literally) to block Kylo's saber from penetrating his torso. Or else, Luke distracting Kylo with a projection, whilst he was secretly on the mountain of the base, activating the Rebel base's ion pulse canon, which he fires, disabling all the FO vehicles, buying time. Or else, Luke having first stopped over on Coruscant, persuading the Imperial Remnant to join the fight and be their leader. Imperial Star Destroyers arriving on scene to fight alongside Leia and others and coordinate their escape.

    6. The FO Chase - have that Admiral Holdo be a traitor sharing their location. The mutiny scene was good keep it. The Bombers though, more respect paid to that pilot who sacrificed herself (Rose's sister). Perhaps have her having been a love interest so Poe feels it. Have her remembered and honoured. Alternatively have the chase scene end with the cruiser being self destructed to buy time, or act as a barrier/ shield against the ships fleeing out the side hangar. Have the Imperials roll up and the Resistance think this is it, it's over, then they see those Imperials firing on First Order ships, having responded to Leia's call, seeing her as the Heir to the Empire.

    7. Canto Bright I liked. I liked the Fathers. I didn't really need to go too much into the slavery thing. Glad we saw it. But should have explained how the REPUBLIC did NOTHING. NOTHING to stop this, just as corrupt as the Old Republic. Have the chase scene a bit shorter, because it felt a bit too Harry Potter at times haha. Eliminate the need for the original cryptographer. Have the original one be the guy who betrayed them. I liked his moral lessons for Finn. Keep that. Otherwise, if Holdo is a traitor, have the cryptographer replaced with someone who knows how to crack the First Order command network to override the Supremacy's weapons to fire on the rest of it's fleet (faster ships capable of catching up with the Resistance quicker).

    8. More exposition and recognition of the Jedi. Have the "Last Jedi" be plural. The Jedi younglings are rediscovered explaining their unique skills (Poe, pilot) etc. Rey realising her heritage and Ben realising who she is, she's his baby cousin. Or if really Rey is random, then Luke is alive and the main protagonist again. AND REY JOINS BEN. She goes to the dark side. Accepts her true destiny. But don't make her parents nobodies, make them someone. Certainly not drunks.


    True, but I'm surprised TFA and TLJ made it "through development" instead of Lucas' scripts. Watching them is entertaining for sure. No doubt about that. And so glad Star Wars is back. BUT, not at the expense of story. Watching the whole saga, and then this, feels like you're watching something else entirely. From any point of view we look at it. See my suggestion of a plot above. But I wish we saw GL's Star Wars Sequels.


    Yes I am not too keen on the saber toss. Nor on Rey beating Luke?! Unless she is his daughter. Not entirely sure on that scene with Luke drinking the blue milk. I mean maybe Luke may have gone into exile, because he missed his window of opportunity to pick up one of those power converters (i believe someone said they were a famous musical band of attractive women).

    I thought the stalling was good. They could have done something that was done in "A Bridge too far" where Hux says "We are ready to discuss terms of surrender" and Poe saying that the Resistance will only accept an unconditional surrender of Hux's forces.

    I think exposition of the galactic state of affairs is severely lacking. For instance, the Empire was legitimate. The First Order is not the Empire, nor legitimate. The Republic's legitimacy is in question, since we are shown nothing on the movie screen in TFA or TLJ to showcase where the Empire is, or what the New Republic was.

    YES YES YES YES YES. Precisely. Use George Lucas' outlines and use him to write the entire story. Simply direct and adjust individual lines if you have to. This would solve everything. I can see from what MarkHamil says, this isn't his Star Wars.

    TFA and TLJ needed to be better. Failed they have. Learn from these they should. Still not too late it is. Mind what you have learned, save you it can!

    I just feel like now they are two thirds of the way in, and they forgot what they were meant to be doing. "Help us George. You're our only hope!"


    Someone like George Lucas.

    Episode IX - THE RETURN OF THE FOUNDER

    With the galaxy in turmoil, galactic citizens from all corners of the galaxy have sent droids R2-D2 and BB-8 to a galaxy far far away in search of the writer of the franchise to return and bring sense back to the story.

    Unknown to the dynamic duo, members of the First Order and Resistance, led by Rey Mary Sue, lead a fleet to pursue them, knowing that any reversion back to common sense and story telling would spell their certain doom.

    Meanwhile, the new director has secretly created a second STARKILLER BASE, this time with enough power to blow up an entire galaxy. With a return to telling the story of the Star Wars saga, unlikely at this point, and maybe too late, the galaxy's only hope lies with two droids, making their way ACROSS THE STARS. Only once they find the CREATOR and his script can our two droids correct for the mistakes of the previous instalments.

    The galaxy is still in turmoil with no idea who is in charge, or what the rules of the galaxy are any more. Citizens wait with baited breath, resting their hopes on two droids, the only chance to restore freedom to the galaxy...

    _____

    Honestly I just think they have made great entertaining films, but forgot that this is ONE BIG SAGA. George Lucas' surely didn't write this??


    If I may suggest a potential story liking with what was hinted at in the BF trailer, but never given to us either.

    Honestly, I LOVED the trailer. This was the George Lucas story I had been looking for to bridge the gap between Episode VI and Episode VII. The trailer seemed to hint at a principled Empire of peacekeepers. And loyal and skilful Iden being at the heart of the story. An Imperial "Point of View" to paraphrase Obi Wan.


    See I'm not sure people would have minded (in fact it would appear actually a lot of people wanted to play as the Imperial, versus the Rebel. Reminds me of the old Battlefront where I might mix it up with Republic or CIS, but I would ALWAYS crush the Rebel scum despite the incompetence of my fellow Stormtroopers' aim).


    A route they could have gone down would have been instead to have had Iden as loyal to the Empire. I think after the Admiral tells her "The Emperor is dead.", something like "And Lord Vader?" would have been nice also. I almost feel like the story is superb up to Operation Cinder haha. See one way they could have spun this would be something like showing a main "Core" of the Empire/Imperials being peacekeepers and wanting to maintain order. They could be searching for the Heir to the Empire (to Lord Vader, the Skywalkers). Commanding most of the Fleet, but in need of coordination. Separate factions such as scheming warlords (such as Sloane etc) could have featured. And another extreme wing that would eventually hide and become the First Order.


    Operation Cinder could have been a conspiracy plan set up by Sloane/First Order faction to divide the Empire. Iden Versio rebelling against those orders, but remaining loyal to the main Empire would have been a nice touch. I had looked forward to seeing her encounter Luke (as hinted in the trailer) too. Not to mention, her being Luke's spouse might have been interesting.


    Yes Naboo as the main target, or else Operation Cinder being a fallback for failure to hold the symbolically important (it was the Emperor's homeworld) planet, would have been more interesting. I personally didn't need to see a pure defection. In a way I liked what Luke said. He almost seemed to tell Del that the Rebellion was NOT the way. Only that the Empire had to be different. Could have shown what Rogue One showed that the "Alliance" was not all it was hyped up to be. But a coalition of competing/selfish interests with its own corruption much like the Republic of old.


    Showing Mon Mothma sidelining Leia and the others, possibly this rumoured public announcement on the Holonet of Vader being Luke and Leia's father, would have been golden.


    Yes I think the problem is the "story" get distracted from being about Iden and the Empire, to just skipping a lot of history and reverting to planets from the sequels. I feel like the trailer is the game we wanted, and I'm surprised they did this, unless they changed it last minute?


    Iden could easily have been part of the Imperials who didn't believe Operation Cinder was right, since it was not about protecting Imperial citizens. In fact, surely at this point, the Rebels might have some additional backing with the Emperor's death, but the Empire has thousands upon thousands of starships, millions of troopers. How on earth could it fall so easily? So the route of an Empire having to fight what would become the First Order as well as a corrupt Rebellion (itself divided between political opportunists (Mothma, Senators etc) and heroes such as Akbar, Leia etc) would have given us the exposition we needed. This all could have been shown to be manipulated by Palpatine's old master (Plageuis or now known as Snoke) who somehow survived (having dropped his Darth title failing to see his apprentice's turn on him).


    I actually thought during that whole Hask saying Iden had committed high treason, it would have been cool to see Iden saying (as well as "I am your commander, stand down!"), "YOU are committing treason!" and an actual Imperial civil war of stormtroopers following her orders believing the plan (Operation Cinder) to be madness.


    Alternative universe, Vader would have handed official power to Luke and Inferno Squad would be his Imperial Guard, putting down an attempted coup by extremists.


    I also feel that it would have felt more "Star Wars" (as envisioned and told by its creator George Lucas) to have gone with the trailer's story. I'm not sure about Cinder as a whole, but an honest Empire in search of its true heir. A corrupt Republic/elements of the cowards you see in Rogue One on the Rebel's Council led by Mothma, overturning the principled Leia and Ackbar etc. And an extreme wing that would become the First Order trying to have everyone destroy each other to seize control.

    I loved that whole scene in the trailer with (Iden?) Inferno Squad hunting down Luke. I do believe though that the point was that the Empire was good (the marketing etc suggested we would finally see this all from the Imperial citizen's perspective). I didn't think we would quickly see that turn. The actress who played Iden seemed like she was super into Star Wars. Wish she was in some films!

    I do believe though that the First Order does not equal the Empire. The Empire had a few nutcase, but ultimately was the legitimate government and peacekeeping. The First Order has made the whole Star Wars galaxy too pure good versus pure evil.

    Maybe Cinder was a Rebel trap all along. They cracked an Imperial code and dispatched false orders to key Imperial fleets to initiate a crazy plan. That would alienate the Imperial Navy and Stormtroopers from their loyal citizens who didn't support the Rebellion. Don't underestimate Mothma, who it seems isolated Leia and became essentially a dictator in all but name, destroying what the Alliance was supposed to be about. Mothma truly restored the corruption of the OLD Republic. She was never interested in creating a new one, that would be the best of both the Republic and the Empire. Maybe Mothma also leaked that Vader was Luke and Leia's father to prevent Leia from becoming the Chancellor and Luke's Jedi Order from having more widespread support amongst the Alliance. Though maybe the genuine Empire (not the extremist First Order), would have sought out Luke to lead them as their true heir.

    As for the allies not coming to Leia's aid, maybe because whilst they respect Leia, they don't support the Republic. It didn't bring about the order needed to fight the criminals and the corrupt. It didn't stop the First Order. And thanks to Mothma, they are defenceless, and dispatching whatever little help they could muster, would mean a defenceless homeworld.

    Perhaps the Imperial Remnant might come to help Leia and Luke and were en route. Or else, they had been disbanded by Mothma, and the remainder either executed or forcibly recruited by the First Order who believed in doing away with the Old Empire also.

    Many Bothans died, to bring us this information.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
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  8. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Sorry, mistakenly hit post again?!
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  9. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    I think your post is longer than The Last Jedi script [face_laugh]
     
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  10. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Hahaha I know. I was trying to avoid double posting, yet somehow accidentally clicked again anyhow.

    Reason it's long is simply because it's multiple replies. Honestly I found TFA and TLJ entertaining. I just feel that we needed Lucas' scripts and tie in to make this one epic saga. With the PT and OT, they form one big saga. These ST films though feel like separate films.

    I know it's long, but trust me. Have a read, and hope you like some of what I've suggested.
     
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  11. godisawesome

    godisawesome Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    I absolutely love TFA... But see TLJ as a *just* good film that squanders a lot of potential and gets my dislike outside of certain scenes. Basically, if it's doesn't have Mark Hamill on screen, I tend to find it lacking at best, and gratingly badly plotted in spite of the acting and directing at worst.

    Okay, up next, I'm tackling Rey's training with Luke and her connection to Kylo. And most of it, as I kind of want to speed through the rest of it.

    Objectives from original film: Have Rey experience the Force, launch into a sub-arc about her identity, again show Luke's internal struggles, establish a connection between Kylo and Rey to be used on the throne room scene and introduce Kylo's arc. Also, establish why Luke got broke

    Problems with intial scripting: Again, Luke's devotion to ending the Jedi regardless of the need for their existance feels like an OOC moment to people, and most annoyingly, his lessons in the film are both cut short before they're finished and don't connect to Rey's maturation beyond giving her a better idea of what the Force is. Kylo and Rey, meanwhile, both comes off as a comparatively static in the film since Rey repeats her plotline with Maz from TFA but for longer now, and Kylo doesn't really leave his potrayal of the same turmoil from the end of TFA. I'm going to try and use Rey's training to clean up a lot of this.

    - Luke uses meditation on that rock to train Rey; she can use it to gaze across the Galaxy, practice using the Force, and work on telepathy and shields against it.
    - At one point she goes far afield from Luke's instructions and Kylo notices when she spies on him, grabbing her hand and starting the connection.
    - Luke forbids her from doing anymore without his supervision, reveals his account of what happened at the hut like in the film. Kylo invites Rey to see how he saw it, and she sees Luke standing over Kylo, like in the film. She doesn't show Kylo any real friendliness, but does start to ditrust Luke a bit.
    - Luke and her discuss how Rey doesn't know her family, but this is kind of out on the backburner, and Luke also reveals a plan to see if he can temper her against passion ('cause darkside) and has her use meditation to see Finn. It's the scene I mentioned earlier where Rose sees his scar; I'd have both girls make a reflexive sympathetic reach towards it, but Rey withdraws her hand, not looking jealous, but maybe a bit sad. Sue me, I'm a Finn/Rey shipper, and this gives us some conflict for IX while preserving the Finn and Rose option for this film.
    - Rey checks back in with Leia and the Raddus, seeing her injuries. She tells Luke, and his sudden worry means he doesn't stop her from reaching even further into her emotions. However, when the dark side calls her, she kind of uses her emotions to push past it and wake Leia up. Luke and her decide to try using this to cover the power gap between her and Kylo; meet his turbulence and raw Skywlaker power with focused light side energy coming from love and compassion.
    - Kylo later taunts Rey about her lack of faith in Luke and in herself, but she fights back by stating she knows Luke wouldn't just attack Kylo, and this time goes through his mind to see that night again. The idea should be that this is a fairly ambiguous act; she wants to show Kylo the "truth." She pulls up the memory, but dives into what Luke saw in his head.
    - Rey sees visions of Vader in Kylo's mind, and sees how Luke reacts violently to it when "Vader" attacks his son inside Kylo's mind. Kylo tries to assert that this is who Luke is, but Rey reaches even further, and "unmasks" Vader to reveal... Snoke. This revelation breaks Kylo, and we see his emotions cue a Force storm around both of them in their respective positions. Then suddenly, Kylo asserts total control over himself, and we see that while he crying, he seems to have changed his demeanor. I'm going for a Macbeth-style final stabilization as a villain that can be read as possibly considering redemption to make the scene on the ship make sense later.
    -This gives away the game to Luke who has his freak out now, and here he collapses into that broken figure from Johnson's movie. At least here, we're seeing him break on screen. Rey decides to leave him because he's in no condition to help them and she thinks they need to get involved, but tells him she has faith in him.
    - Rey leaves Luke with R2, and the shell shocked Luke is hugged by Chewie, who also tells him he wants him back, so we get that one more time. Then when they take off, Rey is again contacted by a quieter Kylo, who tells her he has a proposal; we're setting up the throne room scene, but treating the alliance between them as an unrevealed plan instead of some weird empathy with Kylo.
     
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  12. Wampa-Jim

    Wampa-Jim Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2018
    The Last Jedi -
    When Rey decides to leave Luke to go to Klyo Ren Artoo insists on staying back with him. Rey and Kylo actually fight in front of Snoke. Rey defeats Kylo with a crushing blow leaving him near death. Snoke has a medical team take Kylo away. He imprisons Rey somewhere in his throne room. Luke feels a strong disturbance in the force. Yoda appears and tells him he must go to to help. Luke takes his advice and uses the force to raise his X-wing. Artoo hops in and red five is back on his way to the fight. Snoke makes it easy for Luke to find his way to the the throne room (much like Empire i know). Luke uses his great power to hold off Snoke while he releases Rey and tells her she must leave to go help Leia. She reluctantly listens and leaves for Lukes X-Wing. Now, knowing he is no match for luke snoke says "i have a suprise for you Skywalker". A door slides open and out comes Vader. Luke cant believe what he is seeing. Vader pulls out his lightsaber and ignites it. It is Kylo's light saber. Vader then says to Luke "The power of the Dark side is flowing through me uncle" or something like that. Luke battles Vader and Snoke at the same time eventually killing Snoke leaving just Kylo Vader to deal with. Some witty dialog goes on between them with Luke eventually raising his sword up in Obi-Wan like fashion allowing Kylo to strike him down so he can be one with the force to help Rey..

    i know its more of the Same but I dont care. i would have been a good way to bring Vader back into the mix. He could have looked like an upgraded version. To me this is still the Skywalker Saga. History always finds a way to repeat itself. I also think i would have been a nice touch to have Madelorians guarding Snoke instead of those red guards.
     
  13. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    But exposition needed in both TFA and TLJ as to what happened after ROTJ. And who the villains are in the ST. A sense of galactic affairs, the status of the Jedi.

    Agreed on Skywalker Saga, which is why a main protagonist like Rey should be a Skywalker. Otherwise this isn't a saga film anymore. I thought the original concept was for Ren to be emulating Vader. No idea what the story arc is anymore.

    As for TFA, I heard that the novel mentioned Ren saying to Rey, "It is you.." and that in George Lucas' original ST vision, we were given more exposition, more Luke and a story about Vader's grandchildren.

    As for guards, well they can be droids if you want. But Snoke himself, needs explaining. Can't have a random baddie just turning up which belittles the power and unique nature of Palpatine/Yoda etc. The Plageuis/Windu idea would have worked wonders. This should be one wholesome 9 film saga.
     
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  14. 11-4D

    11-4D Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2015
    I’d combine Crait and Canto Bight. The Resistance go there to meet up with some allies but end up betrayed, Battle of Crait is an actual battle where they not only defend the Resistance but the whole city. People actually witness Luke’s sacrifice. Finn and Rose are not a pointless side mission. Show some civilization. Perfect.
     
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  15. Random Ax of Kindness

    Random Ax of Kindness Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2018
    So when Luke simply evaporates, what's to prevent the FO from rolling over the whole city? I guess the plot would have to change a bit.
     
  16. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Maybe we actually see civilians fighting the FO?
     
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  17. godisawesome

    godisawesome Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Okay, now moving on to what's effectively the first climax of the film, when Rey, Finn, and Rose are all aboard the Supremacy and Holdo the Supremacy.

    Objectives from the film - Wrap up Poe's plotline, cue climactic confrontation in Snoke's throne room wherein Kylo rises to the top of the First Order food chain, Rey has some kind of climax to her arc, and Finn and Rose fight Phasma, tying up their arc, and generally end the Space Chase.

    Problems with intial story - Not as severe in some respects, but still some serious ones: Snoke's last scene plays as a low rent knockoff of ROTJ until he dies, Kylo's supposed temptation to turn good doesn't really work, and neither does Rey's temptation to join the darkside, and in spite of having 3 protagonists a airs the ship, none of them are used to explain why the Supremacy is vulnerable to the light speed ram, a tactic so damn effective it needs to be explained as to why it's not always being used. Also, Finn and Rose's overall plotline has a "meh" ending, being discovered by a Nazi BB8, having a lackluster battle with Phasma with very little payoff, and DJ's selling them out feels perfunctory and wasteful.

    - So, first off, Finn, Rose and DJ infiltrate the Supremacy with DJ's ship and uniforms. DJ tries to play it cool with the dock captain, but his usual tactics don't work, so Finn desperately does an imitation of Phasma in scolding the dock captain, managing to browbeat him into compliance with threats of horrific violence. This impresses Rose a bit, giving us an excuse for Finn to cite that Phasma actually does stuff like that. The dock also contains one of Finn's old Stormtrooper buddies, who expresses some pleasure at Finn putting an officer down. When the dock captain mutters no one is to tour the ship unescorted, Finn improvise into commandeering the Stormtrooper detachment.
    - While making their way towards the central computing area, we see Finn at his surprising best, where, in spite of his flop sweat, he manages to keep improvising a story as a security inspector suspecting sabotage by black marketeers (cue bemused look on DJ's face) and interrogates the fact thathis defection was kept secret among the First Order. Their tour also includes passing by the raining area where we see the kids and teenagers being brainwashed.the Stormtrooper leader and Finn quietly have an honest conversation about it, setting up some possible hope that the Stormtrooper leader can be turned maybe.
    - Instead of it being BB9E figuring them out, it's Phasma; she's hidden int eh shadows in the training room, and we just barely see her clock on Finn. This is so when she goes to capture him, she can do so in a way to protect her own reputation; she comms the Stormtrooper leader and denounces Finn as a traitor and orders his arrest. Finn figures that out and shoves Rose and DJ out of their turbo lift before getting into a Mexican standoff with the Stormtrooper leader. They shout at each other, Finn trying to tell the Stormtrooper not to trust Phasma and being ignored... Until Phasma enters with her own troops, and suddenly opens fire, killing half the squad before taking them prisoner.
    - Finn and the remaining stormtroopers are gagged and taken to the hanger to be executed; the FO hopes to extinguish any future defections by admitting to Finn's and publicly executing him and the "infected troopers", with Phasma spouting some lies and nonsense. Phasma also rubs it in by revealing that DJ, the former Republic Inteligence agent, has spilled the beans on what the Resistnce is likely to do; ditch the Raddus while hiding their transports behind a moon to make the run to Crait. Finn manages to break his gag and start yelling the truth in anger, Phasma orders his head taken first... But Rose, the engineer, is loose in the Supremacy's engineering...

    -Meanwhile, Kylo prepares to take Rey before Snoke. Rey and he acknowledge the change in him, but again kept their plan a secret. Kylo whispers a way to guard your mind against a telepathic attack like the one Snoke will use, explaining that it requires complete focus and calm, which he didn't have before but does now.
    - Snoke interrogates Rey, looking not just for Luke's location but to see if he can make her join him. Rey resists as at first, but Snoke whips up an illusion of her memory of her parents, breaking her defenses. Rey lashes out with her force powers enough to throw Snoke back a bit, before being "restrained" by Kylo before Snoke's Praetorians can kill her.
    - Snoke is the one who starts calling Rey nothing, clearly losing his cool at being thrown back, and starts Firce choking her, though she is heard calling him a lying weakling, and when he says she knows nothing, she squeezes out "Ben knows everything." Snoke pauses in horror and has a second of panic before getting stabbed - though not immediately killed - by the Skywlaker lightsaber, propelled by Ben.
    - The fight is not just with the Praetorians *and* a critically injure Snoke throwing things around and trying to get away. Rey. And Kylo cut through the guards, though at one point, Rey holds off the guards while Kylo powers through Snoke's force attacks, stalks forward like death itself, and quietly mocks Snoke as a pretender dependent on illusions and mind games, and not truly wise... Nor powerful. He kills Snoke.
    - Rey finishes the last Guard, and turns slowly towards Kylo, and Kylo, back to her, asks what she wants now. She tentatively demands the safety for the Resistance. Ben actually says she will have it... But only as long as Leia and Luke are given to him to be killed, and she agrees to help him rebuild the Galaxy. She challenges him, saying that she thought he changed, and asking him what he feel needs to be changed from what his parents built. It quickly breaks down, and Rey tries to attack him, but Kylo easily dominates her with raw Force power, freezing her in place again as he stalks forward, commenting on the difference in power between them. She's effectively doomed...

    - Then, the ship shakes because Rose has started tampering with the engine. Everyone has a reaction shot. Hux, aboard his own ship, reacts to by demanding information. We find out engines are going off randomly, gravity gets shut off in some areas, and then... The particle shields go down.

    - Holdo aboard the Raddus, trying to cover the transports hiding behind the moon. She thanks Poe (who's still technically under arrest with Leia) for his plan having some benefit, then turns her ship...
    - Hux freaks out, orders ships away from the Supremacy and to attack the Raddus.
    - The Raddus rams the Supremacy, though only one other Destroyer is caught in the debris thanks to Hux, and we see the explosion cut through the the hanger where Finn is, causing an explosion that knocks everyone to their feet, and opens the throne room up to space. Rey uses the sudden lack of gravity and air to escape a distracted Kylo, who is only saved by a last minute ray shield being raised.
    - The Stormtrooper leader arrested by Finn is freed by the explosion, he contemplates killing Finn, but reluctantly frees him alongside the others, and we have a free-for-all between Finn/Renegades and Phasma's troopers. We also see that the execution is still being broadcasted, so everyone is seeing Stormtroopers killing Stormtroopers. Phasma runs out of a more after gunning down two of the Renegades, draws her spear and wounds their leader, giving Finn some extra umph when he charges her, ballistic with anger. He manages to beat her with the wounded leader, and then holds the dying leader as he dies.
    - Rose is found by Rey using the Force, and together, they rescue Finn and the last two Renegades.
    - Hux rallies the Destroyers to annihilate the transports that don't make it to the ground, and orders the walkers deployed before heading to the Supremacy for his confrontation and submission to Kylo; this way, there's a bit more tension to him contemplating killing Ren since he just showed competence.
     
  18. Shadao

    Shadao Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2017
    Impressive. You managed to give Snoke the humiliation he deserves and it doesn't make him feel like a total joke (maybe it's because we gradually learn who Snoke really is as a character as his invincibility was slowly peeling away). It also made Kylo Ren a lot more threatening in the process, which is essential for the new Supreme Leader.
     
  19. 11-4D

    11-4D Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Not sure, maybe the city is revealed to have been FO sympathizers this whole time. Luke’s sacrifice could make them change their minds.
     
  20. godisawesome

    godisawesome Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Thanks.

    Annnnndddd since they just cancelled the school I work at for tomorrow for flu...

    ...On to Crait, so I can finally do my own, totally-ignoring-what-RJ-did post.

    Objectives from the original film: Reveal the Resistance is alone and doomed, give Rose and Finn some closure that leaves them in a that nice little sweet spot where JJ Abrams can pursue whatever he wants, have Luke win the symbolic victory and, sadly, exit the film and the series, since we can't have him dominating another film after this one.

    Issues with this version - Honestly, the biggest one for some people, Luke's death and use of a Force apparition instead of a physical appearance, is intrinsic to RJ's idea to end the film. I'm going to try and end it better by a bit, but the core idea will remain. On the other hand, we can all probably agree that there's some major misfires in the battering ram scene, Rey seems to have no part in this part of the story, and Kylo Ren's freak out makes him seem less threatening.

    - Starting off with Luke on Crait. Instead of him trying to burn the Force tree down, we see that he's trashed the inside of it in despair. This is his lowest point; he's as broken as RJ wanted him to be. Yoda shows up, and gives him some lecture on how he's wiser than this, and Luke admits that he's lost so much that he wants to lose control for once, but still can't. (I'm adding an ambiguity to Luke losing so much there in case anyone wants to do something crazy in his last like a girlfriend or something). Obi-Wan, played by an aged up McGregor, shows up and empathizes with his feeling of loss and despair at losing a student, but then casually notes that he himself didn't do so bad with his second apprentice. Luke, feeling ashamed of abandoning the Galaxy, heads towards the cliff, and raises the X-Wing, only to see that it's too broken. He quietly, almost laughingly, states "It's impossible," and then... Anakin Skywalker shows up, and tells him what impossible really is: everything he's already done. Luke looks upon his father as a peer, and suddenly smiles. "Han would love this trick..." He says.
    - On Crait, Rose, Rey and Finn all exit the craft inside the hanger with the few surviving transport ships. There's some light but fun discussion between Rose and Rey where they delicately walk around how they both are associated with Finn, but have a minor geek out moment over Rose's engineering work on the Supremacy; we may have the possibility of a love triangle, but not one with jealousy involved, and these two ladies should click pretty quickly over their similarities as tough wrench wenches.
    - The Battering Ram Cannon is identified, though this time Finn gets back up from the last two renegades about what the weak spot is on the cannon: a focusing lens in the middle of the barrel. They can tell they've got some time before the Cannon so deployed, so not only do they get the skimmers ready to go, we get to see Rose and Rey rub their hands and dig into a small collection of old fighters: Z-95 Headhunters (from the Clone Wars). Leia reinstates Poe, but tells him to still get in one of the refurbished ships and "blow stuff up."
    - The Crait Battle begins, this time featuring the Z-95s trying to provide air cover for the speeders and getting decimated, with Rey acting as Poe's wingman and being impressed by his skill, and not doing badly herself. It's still a pretty bad battle for the Resistance, so when Poe calls everyone back behind the door, Rey is still present to also beg Finn off his attack run down the gullet alongside Rose and Poe.
    - Like in the film, Rose saves Finn, though here's how I'd fix the scenario: she's been running neck and neck alongside him the whole time, desperately trying to order him off but refusing to leave his side. Finn explicitly says he refuses to lose anyone else no matter the cost, so we're not going with the film's idea that he's focusing on hurting the enemy here, more that he's sick of people dying on him. Now when Rose shoves him out of the way, it's because the beam literally fires *right* as they clear the line; no confusion over whether or not it was the right move now, and Rey dives in with Poe to pick them up to justify how they get back. When Finn picks up Rose, I think it might play better If she's been critically wounded by the blast, maybe even losing an arm, but when Finn desperately begs her not to die, she snaps back to conscience and slaps him, hilariously telling him not to make her do that again; they couldn't bare to lose *him*, either. No kiss, just Finn embracing her tightly.
    - Back in the base, Leia finds out that their allies recieved their message, and *are* marshaling their forces, but aren't going to challenge the First Order blockade to rescue a few dozen people. It's also implied that the different factions won't cooperate unless Leia leads them; they're made up of worlds that weren't even a part of the Republic as well as those remnants we'd expect. We still get the idea of hope almost dying here, but at least there's some common sense a small on what's going on.
    - Luke shows up, though I'd make the visual changes a bit less distinct, and include the green lightsaber. Since this scene takes place before the fight, he has his last moments with Leia here. He then marches out and meets the returning Z-95s, with Poe clearly fanboying out and Finn momentarily stunned as he carries Rose away when Luke says Rey talked about him, and he's a hero. Luke then has a last discussion with Rey, where they address that her training isn't complete, and he smilingly tells her not to worry, he'll finish it.
    - Luke walks out to challenge the First Order, levitating some rocks "out of his way" as he does so. In the command ship, I want to reverse some of the Hux and Kylo dynamic. Kylo is cool and calm, though clearly focused in on Luke, and instead of him screaming for everyone to aim at Luke, he "corrects" Hux's initial restrained approach quietly, and Hux is the one who screams it in fear of an angry Kylo; I think that plays as funnier and maintains Kylo's menace. Luke does the brush off, and instead of Hux having to order the ceasefire, Kylo orders it to continue, slowly getting louder, until he finally stops it himself. Luke brushes off his shoulder, Hux visibly soils himself, and Kylo just growls "Take us down."
    - Back in the HQ, Rey reveals that she already signaled Chewbacca to come for them, but doesn't know where they can get to him. Poe does the crystal fox thing to the back of the cave, and they find its not just a few boulders but huge ones and tons of sand. Rey sits down, and starts trying to move them, but is clearly struggling...
    - Luke and Kylo have their "fight" though Luke doesn't even seem to activate his lightsaber for a while, just to make the taunting even more clear. And Kylo doesn't slice through Luke to realize he's not there; he instead tries his Force Freeze and when nothing happens, suspects the truth. I think this maintains Kylo's stabilization in mine a bit better. He's still livid at being tricked, but this time turns and. Uses the Force to just *shove* the cannon's hole even wider and orders an assault into the caves. Luke, who's spent even more time lecturing Kylo then in the film, fades away, and Kylo finally loses it a bit, screaming at the sky, but only briefly. On Ach To, we see Luke pass, though this time with a smile on his face and R2 by his side.
    - Back in the caves on Crait, Rey is still struggling to lift the rocks, when she hears Luke giving her the "just breathe" speech again. The rocks and sand move, and there's Chewbacca to pick them up. We follow the ship to deep space, where Luke continues to talk to Rey through the Force, as she witnesses thousands of ships emerge at the Rendezvous Point; no capital ships, but literally a night sky with ships and Starfighters instead of stars. Leia says something about how they're not really Rebels, but they are an Alliance.
    - We have a short montage of planets starting some resistance to the First Order, and see the stable boy telling the story to others, but not while stil enslaved, instead we see he's guiding other kids through the underground of Canto Bight, and he accidentally and unknowingly uses the Force to pull his paintbrush to his hand to finish his graffiti... Which I'd make look like Luke's pose in the very first Star Wras poster.

    End.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
    Oryx-I, Shadao and Force Smuggler like this.
  21. Gharlane

    Gharlane Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2000
    I have had similar thoughts. Canto Bight could be a neutral system due to the arms dealing so the Resistance goes there knowing that despite being tracked the FO can't touch them. But Snoke or Hux gets around that and stages a false flag attack through Phasma and starts landing troops with the Resistance and the FO taking part in urban warfare.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
  22. DominusNovus

    DominusNovus Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    I've got a question for people that, while I would like to make a thread dedicated to it, is close enough to this topic that said thread would likely get merged in here anyway. So:

    Focusing on one general plotline, what scenes would you have liked to have seen in the Luke training Rey plot? (lets assume that the movie actually was going to be about Luke training Rey)

    Some suggestions:
    - Rey building her own lightsaber
    - Rey sparring lightsabers with Luke on at least two different occasions
    - Rey practicing moving objects on at least two different occasions
     
  23. Random Ax of Kindness

    Random Ax of Kindness Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2018
    Probably #3. I think #2 is a little too kinetic for an aged Luke, and in addition to #3, I would add some meditation scenes, possibly mixed in with body control. For example, a scene where Rey's eyes are closed and her palms pressed together in meditation, but while balancing on one foot on a cairn.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
  24. Dukeleto69

    Dukeleto69 Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Actually the sensible way to get just a few lines of exposition dialogue explaining Snoke's origins or power would have been to have Luke tell Rey as she was "training". Speaking while there is action on screen. Doesn't slow the film down but you could combine the dramatic beats of the exposition with the actions of whatever Rey is doing.
     
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  25. godisawesome

    godisawesome Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    I think you could hold off on "building a new lightsaber" just because as derivative as it may seem to wait until the third entry to have her do so, it also kind Fkrst fits with the idea of Rey completing her training when she does that. In fact, I'd argue they could downplay her combat training altogether; Luke didn't have it focused on in ESB at all, and Rey has a strong base from which to learn more in the physical realm without needing Luke's help.

    I'm far more interested in her doing the Force-multi-tasking that Luke did in ESB, like that headstand-while-lifting-rocks-and-also-peering-into-the-future, something that clearly taxes your mental discipline, mastery of the practical and mental aspects of mental training, and is on top of that just exhausting. Or on doing meditation, like @Random Ax of Kindness suggests. I tend to think that the total concentration, the zen-like focus on a single objective, is what marks the fully trained force users from inexperienced students; it bleeds well into the idea of a Jedi in combat having full knowledge of his surroundings, his opponent's move-set, acces to telekinetic attacks and defenses, and his physical condition and capabilities all while accessing precognition to deflect incoming attacks and get around an opponent's defenses.

    And most fights can kind of be broken down to when a combatant loses track of one of those or is overwhelmed by the tasks and gets beaten: Anakin over-estimating his leaping ability, Maul failing to realize Obi-Wan's going to jump over him because he's busy gloating, Vader, Dooku, and Qui-Gon finding their physical capacities unmatched, and Luke simply not having enough training to prepare for stuff being thrown at him or see into the future.

    If the film had given Rey training but then showed how much further along Kylo was, I would have been fine.

    Now, quickly, to discuss a brief version of how I would do a Rey Related story...

    Rey and Luke realize they're daughter and father early on, and the dramatic drive of their arc together is Rey feeling like her father abandoned her and Luke feeling like trash for not figuring out his lover had a kid and never finding her. This could easily throw an emotional wrench into Luke expecting Rey to follow his instructions while training her and advising her to stay "out of the way" until she's ready. And it would give Kylo some leverage to lean on when trying to poison Rey's mind against Luke. Then, I would still have Luke die at the end of the film, but with Rey and he having *just* kind of reconciled, to make the feelings more bitter, and by having Kylo kill him in the flesh to make Kylo a hero killer, though one who again finds himself un-rewarded for his deed. This would lead to a setup in IX wherein its Skylwalker legacy vs Vader legacy, with a side of personal feuding between the cousins that Rey must learn to overcome.

    Alternatively...

    Luke and Rey are unaware in this movie of their connection; perhaps Luke even posits some theories like the yin-yang one with her and Kylo, or Rey Kenobi or Palpatine. We also establish that in terms of raw strength, Rey is seemingly outmatched, so the dramatic push for this story right now is Rey trying to find a way to match Kylo, eventually focusing on her going for skill and focus against him, probably using my idea from other threads where she learns to use passion and attachement (in a healthy way) to fuel light-side powers, challenging the more cold and sterile interpretations of Jedi teaching. Luke survives the film, though, with some implication that physically speaking, he can't keep up with Kylo or Rey anymore, but also so we can maybe set up a happy ending for him...

    Meanwhile, in both scenarios, Finn leads an infiltration into First Order space, planting the seeds for a Stormtrooper rebellion, but has to ditch his ship and lands on a forbidden, inhospitable planet while tracked by First Order goons, desperately calling for help... And gets rescued by an older *red-headed* woman (you can see where this is going if you're a Legends fan). The woman shares her past as a former Imperial agent who saw the truth after the GCW, and eventually followed rumors of a resurgent Empire in the Unknown Regions, and set out to investigate... From Jakku. She was trapped, shot down, and only barely managed to survive for decades on the surface. Since Finn is being chased by a Knight of Ren hunter, eventually a fight breaks out where the red-head uses the Force, allowing Finn to beat the hunter, and he confronts her about whether or not she had a kid...

    Accompanying this reveal, I would have a new Star Wars Cartoon announced, set between the OT and the ST, focusing on ex-Imperial Intelligence Agent Mara Jade as she seeks a place in the post-Imperial Galaxy. It's basically the wild, wild west out there, with about a half-dozen different space governments the New Republic is trying to win to its side. Mara goes on a journey of slowly realizing how badly she chose her side, confronts various threats in the GFFA (all on a smaller scale than the Empire but with a more personal flavor to their villainy), and keeps crossing paths with the wandering Jedi Knight errant, Luke Skywalker. She'd gradually come to realize her Force powers, gets some training from Luke, have a... *connection* formed between the them, and in the last series start trying to redeem herself for working for Imperial intelligence and gradually uncover evidence of Imperial die-hards, have a kid, and temporarily leave her behind on Jakku while storming off to investigate the Unknown Regions...

    I figure that gives you a lot of awesome stuff to have on TV between the films.