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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST The ST: What Would You Change/Revise?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by EzraSnoke, Dec 27, 2017.

  1. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Hmm... Now that would actually be a bit disappointing, imho at least. One of the few things I like about Rey in TFA en TLJ is that she's a nobody, and her parents also. I think (but I'm not entirely sure) that Luceno in his Plagueis novel hints that Anakin's birth-from-a-virgin might have been the outcome of one of Plagueis' experiments... I would like that for Rey too (her ' parents' also just be a single woman), and also let her have a darker role, being attracted to the Dark Side not so much by temptation buy by a menacing inevitability... (being a Plagueis experiment) She eventually will not turn, of course.

    But of course this is your story, I'm only commenting :)

    Your story is more appealing, more exciting, more satisfying and more coherent than what we've got sofar with Episodes VII and VIII.[/QUOTE]

    Thanks! You have some great ideas too! So yes I see what you mean.

    1. Glad you're sold on Coruscant. I was aspiring for an ultimate moment akin to Return of the Jedi with Rise of the Jedi and the establishment of the Jedi at the Temple there. Coruscant being symbolic also as the capital of a unified galaxy. For now being held by this Imperial Remnant/Imperium, and destined to take its place once again, but this time by a government that will not repeat the mistakes of the Old Republic, the Empire, or the New Republic elements who are apathetic to the rest of the galaxy, or who rule unfairly.

    2. I guess I went with Mothma, to avoid having too many new characters. I'm trying to bridge the films as much as possible. I'm not necessarily saying that she is in power at this point, but its her ethos and other "Senators" who have overridden Leia and the other Alliance members in their quest for power. All those who gain power are afraid to lose it as Palpatine said. I guess, if you look at Rogue One, you can see the darker parts of the "Rebellion," with one of her Generals ordering Cassian to kill. Not to mention cowardly political elements within it at the Conference Table. Also Mothma didn't appear to be someone on the frontline, it is possible that she, or her colleagues were simply unhappy with their loss of status in the days of corruption in the Old Republic. I believe somewhere there is a rumour that in some novel, Princess Leia (who was against the Empire) had to admit that the New Republic just debates, whereas even the Imperial Senate came to a decision and got things done. I was linking Mothma as perhaps the only other prominent political aspect of the Alliance shown in ROTJ (although I think there were a few people standing around (though without lines) in ANH. Leia, Ackbar, and other new characters will form the principled part of the old Alliance. The corrupt elements will attack Leia based on her heritage of Darth Vader, and so on.

    3. Yes I like the multitude of remnants also! I believe this is what Lucas also intended. The ST was to be about the spiritual aspect of the Jedi (with a new Order under Luke being established, him being the first of the new), and also the reestablishment of a unified galactic government. So at this stage, have multiple factions. Some indeed could have closed off. Some could be run by warlords. Others have become criminal factions. Have chaos with the gangsters and pirates no longer kept in check by an orderly Imperial Star Fleet, and thus the Hutts, and Outer Rim scum are back to the good old days of the apathetic Republic. Have a principled Imperial remnant (the main element) reside on Coruscant and a shadow of the Empire in the inner Rim. Seeking Luke/Leia to lead them. Have this other mysterious "Order" (I changed the name from First Order, to The Order, be an element who is a blend of Imperial, paramilitary, who are about Law and Order (if only to gain power) and also Jedi Killers. Some complex plan to frame the Jedi, and be asked to rule.

    4. Plageuis having some secret of the Force to regenerate (the only way to kill him is to strike him down with a lightsaber/slice him in two). He knows that Luke will never kill in anger. The key is to get close to him to strike. Plageuis is akin to a Yoda for the Dark Side. He drops the name Darth, believing the Sith to be as defunct as the Jedi. He believes in something like him being the Supreme Leader with many "Hands" who carry out his will. He is obsessed with immortality. Disfigured owing to Palpatine's actions (in his arrogance, Palpatine used Lightning to kill thinking his old Master dead). He will also seek to completely regenerate, believing he needs one strong in the Force to help him. Have Ben stunned by Plageuis' actions in healing (with the Force) a dying friend of his during that whole raid scene.

    5. Yes the morally good post Palpatine Empire being on Coruscant. This is essentially the peacekeeping Empire which simply wants order and an end to corruption and chaos, and criminality. They are hounded by the New Republic who use them as a scapegoat for all the galaxy's problems to deflect the people's anger at lack of governance. This honest Empire left over will be the "allies" who will come to Leia's aid at the time they are most needed. Imagine Star Destroyers and some new version (say a three winged tie fighter) of a fighter fleet emerging from hyperspace to protect the last of the Alliance from say an Order fleet who even convinced corrupt/weak Republic forces to join their side against Leia.

    6. Yes I like Plageuis too, not only is he interesting, I almost feel he was deliberately seeded in by Lucas (who has a creative mind like no other). It would perfectly tie all the trilogies together to give us ONE SAGA of a flowing 9 episode storyline that follows the Skywalker family. Plageuis rocks! As for his species, I only go by film canon, so that is still left open to be set. Thus it could have been done.

    7. Law and order yes! Think a League of Shadows Order (led by Plageuis), a Jedi influenced Order of Sky Knights, who are not with the Republic, but seek Luke (ex Jedi who want to act), an apathetic Republic, an old Imperial remnant (the Imperium), multiple warlords, criminals, thugs, gangsters etc. This would set up a good film about doing what is right, and on governance, morals etc. Whether a Jedi will do what is necessary. The whole Your training is nothing without will! The will to act!

    8. Yes Jedha would be a mess, but I suppose by this time, they have built a new Jedi city. Again it was a suggestion to try and tie films together. And a temporary planet until we get back to the old Jedi Temple. I thought about a jungle planet, but I think Jedha also gives you the whole desert planet, with a purpose versus Jakku, which just feels like it is simply trying to rehash Tatooine. Jedha also added the spiritual Guardians of the Whills also.

    9. As for wife, yes, I was going with Kristen Kreuk as Luke's wife in flashback, and maybe Gal Gadot as wife in modern times if that makes sense? Either way both actresses are fantastic and I would love to see either play Wife Skywalker. I also like Kristen Kreuk best for this role, or at least have her as a young Jedi (who's mind is suppressed to hide her). At least if Luke's wife sacrifices herself to save their daughter, this either gives Luke the reason for serious sadness (perhaps he even believes his daughter dead, that is another angle you can go), or gives emotional weight. I really would like to see Kristen Kreuk yes. As for age, don't forget this is a galaxy far far away. I'm not sure other species age like we humans do! Or again, there is the flashback route, in which case you have to think of her meeting a Luke Skywalker post ROTJ at that time. Another option I do like (and where they messed up with Iden Versio in my opinion), was to have Kristen Kreuk actually be an Imperial Special Ops person who was hunting down Skywalker. Her mission is actually classified to seek him to lead them as Imperial Intelligence discovered he is Vader's heir. They fall in love etc. And she becomes a Jedi as Luke discovers she has great reflexes for a reason. Or else she defends the Jedi Temple and sacrifices herself to buy time for the others to escape. Their offspring is the female young Jedi who will receive the torch by Episode 9. Perhaps have an angle where Plageuis discovers who she is, and attempts to convert both the Skywalker lines (Luke and Leia via the girl and Ben).

    10. Magnificent! I'm glad you agree! Yes I rather like the whole "Set up" by Supreme Leader on this outer rim world. Think of it as a Test to both tempt Ben, show up the Republic, and indirectly the Jedi. You could set this raid up and have a great scene where "everyone" on all sides have a point. Makes for a story that explores the very concept of when to act. And gives a reason for Ben to turn. I feel this is completely lacking in the current ST.

    11. Yes we don't have to have Phasma, I was just showing one way of introducing a character versus random new characters in the current way of doing things. So as in any key character has a backstory. Rather than random characters.

    12. Haha you see where I'm going with the whole many Jedi survive and there is a reason for these people to have talents/powers. And we see the beginnings of the seeds of a new Jedi Order. I am surprised this isn't a route they were taking. At least in that way, the Force would awaken in these students, in a sense that they start to remember who they were. Jedi Knights. As for the title I went with Shadow of the Force to rhyme with Phantom Menace, in the sense that the Shadow is Plageuis, the left over bad guy who has to be defeated to end the dark side for good. Again backstory for all characters and a reason for any defections versus random storytelling.

    13. See for me, I think Rey has to be a somebody. We can have the "everyone can be someone" with the other Jedi, and even the fact that EVERYONE, be they Republic, average citizen, ex Imperial will unite together by sequels' end to defeat the dark and realise they must govern and give etc together. This is a Skywalker saga after all, so I feel that as a primary character she has to be a Skywalker. It also gives us an EMOTIONAL connection given she is Luke's legacy. And also she will learn and fail in these sequels, versus the character we get now. I.e. no instant superpower character. Like Anakin, and Luke, she will rise, fall and ultimately rise. Maybe even have her played Naomi Scott. I would also like Luke's daughter to be tempted by the dark. In the time that passes between Jedi hidden and revealed, even Luke may not initially recognise her, although she reminds him of her mother. And she will somehow regain her memory without Luke doing anything (he has to actively reactivate the others). Plageuis attempt to turn her fails and Rey (or whatever her name) like her Father and Grandfather before her, shall stand before him and say she is a Jedi. As for tempt to dark, possibly a turn to the dark, that could be interesting yes.

    14. Thank you! Yes I mean I haven't spent that long on it. Give me a hundred million dollar budget, Lucas' scripts, all the actors and actresses etc, and I think we could have made a superb Sequel trilogy that ties everything together as one saga! I really wish this had happened!

    May the Force be with us! :D
     
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  2. Moff Hylldar

    Moff Hylldar Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 5, 2018
    Great elaborations again, @DarthTalonx! I'll respond selectively; again, as you will understand, sometimes in the form of "but" and "if" statements, which are not primarily meant as rejection of your ideas; this is just how the more interesting stuff comes from my keyboard in response to your inspiring ideas and general outline; to just type 'great!' under everything I think is great, would rapidly get tedious.

    It is indeed surprising this entire setup, which is not at all far removed from what was portrayed in Ep VII, was not carved out this way. I don't even think it would have cost valuable screen time. And if it did, it'd have been for the better.

    One of the aspects of Plagueis that fascinates me (mostly based on James Luceno's novel) is that he seems to represent an amoral rather than an immoral character. That makes him, in a way, less evil, but much darker and much more elusive than Palpatine (who is immoral rather than amoral — although, again, Luceno hints at Palpatine having an agenda beyond Imperial power play as well, in his — canon! — Tarkin biography). Your idea of having Plagueis healing people, even if mainly for manipulating emotions, perfectly fits this perception!

    Plagueis is some sort of a synthesis of Goethe's Faust and Nietzsche's Übermensch. I wouldn't detail anything about what could or could not kill him, beforehand. Just make it known it ain't easy ;) Thinking of it, I feel that an arch villain of his magnitude should, in a dramatic climax, be thrown into another dimension (reminiscent of 'bottomless pit' in the book of Revelation, and the abyss in Nietzche's Beyond Good and Evil: "... if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.") through a (gravitationally anomalous) wormhole. This would also containing an ambivalent element of both mercy and uncertainty (as Plagueis might survive it) which I would like, as it would mock his immortality while at the same time leaving it intact.

    (EDIT the scene showing Plagueis going through the wormhole could be made to look like an exaggerated reprise of Vader in his Tie Fighter after the first Death Star was blown up; that was just a turmoil, and him regaining control of course; here it'd be Plagueis through the wormhole, and seemingly surviving it, to be never seen again. Btw there was a Disney sci fi movie "The Black Hole" in the late 1970s / early 1980s.)

    Thinking ot it, the fact that Jedha was hit by the Death Star could provide some unique, somewhat post-apocalyptic scenery. I'm not thinking primarily of what we see in 3D shooter games in the genre called 'post-apocalyptic', but maybe more like in John Wyndham's The Chrysalids. Mysterious and dangerous areas, mountains of glass, declared taboo by locals...

    Well — I actually like Phasma as she seems to have been envisioned, but she seems to have been shallowed down (or maybe never very well developed). Borrowing from, and expanding on, your great idea of the 'hidden / self-forgotten jedi's': what about making Phasma one of those, and still having her kill Luke's wife (or, maybe this is exactly what you suggested already, and I misunderstood?) It'd add great drama, and put Luke under even more stress, and tremendous guilt.

    This is great indeed. If JJ, KK and RJ read this, they might be chewing off their tongues and pulling out their hair. This story would be great for old fans, but also a treat for the new generation (who now imho got a faulty and shallow story).

    Ah, but I agree that Rey has to be somebody in the essential sense. And if she, like Anakin, came partly from a test tube, she'd be related to the Skywalkers as well. But of course this is your story, and I'm mostly a 'first spectator' with a feedback option here :)

    I'd feel a bit cheated though, if Rey would just turn out to be Luke's lost daughter... Like you build symmetry into the names of your episodes VII-IX, I'd like some sort of a symmetry between Rey and Anakin as well (somewhat more substantive than just lineage), especially because this seems such a blatant missed opportunity in the actual ST. So, she could be Luke's daughter, but would it be possible to weave some sort of a shadowy curse over her conception? Something already in motion before she was born? Not just for the sake of this trilogy, but also, retroactively, to clarify some stuff that George Lucas eventually didn't, about Anakin.

    So do I! But it didn't. There are various fan films that Lucasfilm does allow though (as long as they aren't sold for profit, I presume. Of course, as far as I'm acquainted with the phenomenon, they usually deal with characters not in the main storyline, and certainly not an alternative history for a part of the main storyline). On a more modest scale, a quality comic or, even more basic, a novel adaption could be in reach.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  3. Luke02

    Luke02 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Everything. I would left the Legendary Characters in 1983. Long term it would been better for everyone.
     
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  4. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014

    Thank you! Haha "So be it...Moff Hylldar."
    I'm glad you think these are great. For a long time, I thought I was mad because I felt excited by, but ultimately disappointed post TFA. Versus my great feeling watching any of the other 6 saga films. I just cannot fathom why the idea of telling the story and continuing was abandoned (from what I heard they abandoned Lucas' scripts). Yes I also think these ideas I have presented (which amalgamate my own ideas with the rumours/articles of what I heard Hamil say was originally intended) hopefully would continue the story and be worthy of being a saga chapter that blends the entire 9 episode story together as one space opera!

    Yes totally surprised that the setup was not a different scenario that naturally evolves from ROTJ (and indeed post Episodes 1 to 6). With the eventual reunification of the galaxy and reestablishment of the Jedi Order (reformed and anew under Luke). Instead it's somewhat jarring to be thrown into a random universe with literally no backstory. Thus I intended the setup to be a divided and somewhat chaotic galaxy that is in search of the Jedi morality, a spiritual direction, order (something lost when the Empire suddenly collapses) and a crack down on the moral and apathetic corruption of the Old Republic which seeps back in allowing the criminal elements to gain sway once more. I also think it would not have cost valuable screen time. For instance, I find it far more valuable to have key scenes/flashbacks/conversational exposition on the galactic status quo, than spending time on either "Kanji club," (TFA) or union disputes (TLJ) which don't actually have any bearing on the story, nor expand on the galaxy, or the plot arc. Far better to outline the galaxy we have now, how we got here from ROTJ, and a sense of where we are going (i.e. the motivations of all factions, characters etc) as was established in both previous trilogies (which also meld together).

    Thus I was angling for a divided/fractured galaxy to be made whole again. A reasoning for continuing beyond ROTJ as also being the "unfinished business" of the dark side to be finally finished off, and to see the Jedi truly rise (hence Rise of the Jedi for Episode 9). In a way to show the reasoning (as per Episodes 1 to 3) for simply going back to the old ways of the Republic is not good enough, to showcase a corrupt New Republic that has sidelined both the Jedi, orderly moral Imperials (appointed by merit such as Piett and such like), and the Alliance members like Leia. In addition show corrupt or greedy warlords and gangsters. All manipulated (like Palpatine) by Plageuis, who seeks complete immortality. Perhaps indeed by a wormhole, which is perhaps the secret to the Force itself?

    Yes I really like the idea of Plageuis as it ties everything together beautifully. His species is still left open until shown on screen. And I believe that this gives us a character who's reveal will be understandable. Otherwise, a random villain makes zero sense in the context that this is not Episode 1, but Episode 7. Thus we must not belittle or make the previous episodes unrelated or unimportant. If not Plageuis, then the best I can think is Windu, who might say be coming back as a fallen Jedi who believes that the Republic betrayed the Jedi and that order enforced by the Force is the only way to set things right. But someone with motivations to be this Supreme Leader. And to showcase immense power. Also the audience needs to know the backstory of all characters. And certainly know who these people are. Mystery without pay off is not going to happen in my suggested outline. The whole "Shadow" is the mysterious elusive villain who has lurked for long in the shadows and emerges as the new and final threat to the galaxy and will form the final test for the Skywalkers in their saga. Yes healing people, (for manipulation primarily) I thought was a cool idea!

    Yes that is what I originally mentioned about the fight scene at the Jedi Temple. I.e. Phasma would have a back story as a disgruntled Jedi who lacked patience. I had Phasma be the one who was utterly ruthless and actually started killing immediately (versus Ben who hesitates and wants people to join him). Luke's wife (maybe Kristen Kreuk in a flashback or else if modern times Gal Gadot and have Kristen as a surviving Jedi Knight) would be defending both her child and the other younglings and fall to Phasma's back stabbing move.

    The route taken and the awoken Jedi

    Thank you! I really wish this is what JJ gave us and I'm somewhat baffled by the route taken. I mean in my opinion, this is a way GL would have gone. Not sure what the story they were taking, but it seems to be that they opted for relay race mode, where the team doesn't even discuss the plan before the race. In my outline, there is a general agreed storyline, and each director sticks to it. They simply have their way of producing it on screen visually, and tweaking lines etc. I feel that this CONNECTS the entire saga as one, gives motivational reasons for actions (versus characters randomly taking decisions or participating), crucial backstory of galactic events and affairs, and an actual plot that naturally follows from ROTJ. And comes to a triumphant conclusion hopefully! I feel that this connects the old fans, new fans and ultimately creates one saga that flows. I was hoping this Shadow plot is essentially a conclusion trilogy to conclude the story. Versus unnaturally continuing what appeared to be a finished saga.

    Rey yes, I personally feel in this story that the main protagonist of a Skywalker saga has to be a part of said family. Also in my outline, I would not have any character, be it male, female, human, Twilek etc have zero flaws and downloading Force powers. Every character (e.g. the fallen or forgotten Jedi who awake and remember who they are) has a reason for their skill, fails and succeeds, learns and grows. And they have a reason to be motivated. Having Rey be Luke's daughter for me, is about having a connection to Luke, who is our hero. And the other fallen Skywalker is Leia and Han's offspring. I did consider and liked the idea that Rey joins the dark temporarily (perhaps before she is awoken?), twisted and manipulated by Plagueis. I am unsure about Anakin's origins. I had hoped that that is a one off about him being the Chosen One and born by the Force. I would rather Rey be the natural offspring of Luke (and Kristen). Thus there is an emotional resonance and weight to who she is and we have a reason to root for her. No beating up old Jedi Masters with sticks. Here the young learn and eventually grow powerful and are the legacy of their parents. In a good way.

    I would also have Force Ghost of Anakin, Yoda and Obi Wan be present and connect with the living. Perhaps the "secret of the Force" will also allow all other fallen Jedi (by Order 66) to appear as Force Ghosts in the closing scene just before the credits in Episode 9 with Qui Gon and others all watching proudly a new Jedi Order take its place on Coruscant.

    One option for Rey is to also have her be Luke's daughter. She survives. But unlike the other Jedi who hide/conceal themselves, she somehow wandered away prior to Luke arriving back at the Temple. She could be discovered by others (e.g. how Superman is raised by others) and raised as a poor village girl. Then rediscovered or something like that. It's possible. But I preferred an outline where she is placed under guardianship by Luke (who wants to protect her from his enemies) to the care of say Lor Sekka, or an Imperial Senator. If said Senator and his village are attacked in a scene similar to TFA, this also gives Rey additional motivation to be involved (e.g. she could return and find the droid). This compared to random coincidences on Jakku makes more sense to me.

    Luke's enemies will also involve people in the Republic who fear a Jedi Order that would fight the corruption. And those who tie him to Vader.

    As for the inception of Anakin/Rey, I would have to defer to Lucas on that. The vibe I got was that was a very one off event. I don't think the Force magically creating someone to bring balance a lot would be something that should be used too much, else it loses its effect. One could argue then should not the Force have done that when Palpatine proclaimed himself Emperor and the Jedi had all but been wiped out?

    Yes I also feel a bit sad about what we got. I hope though that:
    Episode 7 - Shadow of the Force
    Episode 8 - A New Alliance (or Knights of Ren)
    Episode 9 - Rise of the Jedi

    Somewhere in a galaxy far far away, in a parallel universe, these 3 sequel films were made and completed the most iconic franchise of all time. May the Force be with us!
     
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  5. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Following supposed interview of what Lucas wanted to do, I would change my title of Episode 8 from A New Alliance/Knights of Ren to Knights of the Whills
     
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  6. DominusNovus

    DominusNovus Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Something I’ve been giving a lot of thought to is that the ST really does not have much of a clue what happened as the Empire fell. Yes, there’s ancillary materials that are expanding upon this now, but everything in the movies, so far, seems very focused on two things: What is happening on the screen, and, to a lesser degree, what happened to the main characters to get them where they are (Luke and Ben’s falling out, for example, or Han looking for the Falcon). Precious little attention has been given to the overall background of what got the Galaxy to where it is. From a logical perspective, this should have been the first priority: plot out a rough series of events, from ROTJ onward, and see where they lead to. That does not mean that the ST has be full of expositions dumps “As you know, after the Battle of Endor, there were a series of skirmishes across the Outer Rime” but that that information should be there, in a production bible of sorts, and the films should have that skeleton to build from.

    So, with that in mind, I have come up with 4 possible outcomes for the fall of the Empire, roughly based on historical parallels, just to give us something to build from.
    1) The Fall of Rome
    2) The French Revolution
    3) World War 1
    4) World War 2
    Each should have a compelling enviroment for a story, with lots of fuel for conflict, while also doing two things: Making the accomplishments of the OT matter (even if its not all sunshine and roses) while also making the motives of the villains understandable (that doesn’t mean they have to be relatable).

    1) In this version, the collapse of the Empire leads to a general breakdown of Galactic Civilization. The New Republic is able to maintain political continuity over a stable core, and restore Democracy there - think a hybrid of Byzantium and Venice, but they lack the resources and will to truly restore a Galactic Government. These are, overall Dark Times, as much of the galaxy is reduced to the standards of living you’d expect in the crime-ridden Outer Rim. In this version, the First Order might be just one of the more ruthless and successful of the petty tyrannies that have sprung forth from the chaos in the wake of the Empire’s collapse. The First Order hates the New Republic for bringing about such a chaotic galaxy, and want to reunify everything on their terms - kind of like an evil Charlemagne.

    2) In this version, the Rebel Alliance starts to fragment due to infighting after Endor. Think of how divided they were shown to be in Rogue One, with pacifist groups through to violent ruthless extremists like Saw’s. Though they fragment, its not that they break apart as a group, but that the infighting becomes increasingly brutal, and the revolutionaries of the OT are the reactionaries of the ST. In this version, the First Order are the Reign of Terror, perhaps Snoke as an evil Robespierre.

    3) In this version, the Rebels are largely successful, but have not completely wiped out the Empire - think something similar to the old EU. The First Order are a faction within the Imperial Remnant akin to the Nazis in Weimar Germany, who hate the Republic for humiliating the ‘rightful’ government and toppling it.

    4) In this version, the Rebel Alliance totally fragments along some main fault line after their victory at Endor, akin to the split after the USSR and Western Allies defeated Nazi Germany. Obviously, doing ‘communists vs capitalists in space’ would be a bit too cute. However, there are obviously rifts, again, as shown in Rogue One. Whatever their ultimate dividing line is, we get two relatively large governments, each imperfect but not terrible in their own right, presiding over pretty much the entirety of the Galactic Empire’s former territory. They are in a Cold War of sorts, antagonistic toward each other, but neither side willing to commit the Galaxy back to war. In this version, the First Order is something of a terrorist group, trying to stoke the fires of war between the two, to avenge the Empire.
     
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  7. The One Above All

    The One Above All Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 11, 2017
    The question came to me after reading some books from the Bantam era of the EU and trying to picture the likes of Luke, Han and Leia, no longer part of the underground rebellion, but as part of the dominant government. I still can’t help but wonder what the Sequel Trilogy would have been like if, rather than putting the heroes in the role of the rebellion again, they had put them in the role of a legitimate republic. Now, to be clear, I’m not saying the movies would have been better or worse than what we got. Also, I’m not wishing for the original EU to come back. I’m just curious about how, if the Sequel Trilogy had taken the route I just described, it might have felt in terms of tone, visuals, etc.
     
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  8. 11-4D

    11-4D Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Absolutely. It's a no-brainer. The Resistance has absolutely no place in a post-ROTJ trilogy for anything other than nostalgia.
     
  9. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Thread merged.
     
  10. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Well, one of the reasons I suspect they tried to recast the heroes as part of The Resistance rather than the dominant government is you have to give the heroes a challenge and they thought that was the way.
    Now I disagree with that but I suspect that was their thinking. If you put the heroes in as part of a established government, you now have to figure out how it can all go wrong and that is more difficult to do than if you simply recast them as part of a Alliance redux like The Resistance.

    I would have liked more of a NR state of the galaxy in at least the first film that then turns bad over the first two movies and then becomes a Resistance as the FO gains power rather than just a Resistance already fighting the FO while the NR exists in some what are they there for? type of arrangement we got with TFA before the FO blew them off the map.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
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  11. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    A possible solution would have been to move to the point of view of the bad guys.
     
  12. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    True. I thought about that but...man, good luck writing that one. :p

    edit:

    Thought about this the last few days:

    Another revision to Episode 7 I would make would be to turn Phasma into a member of the KoR. She would still be chromed but no longer just a FO stormy commander but a full on member of the KoR. Call her Phasmo Ren. She would still be played by Gwendoline Christie and she would appear in scenes without her helmet at times. No need to hide their identities. This is not that movie. Even Kylo would appear without his in a few scenes. You would even have a scene with Phasmo and the other members of the KoR assembled around a "round table" :p where Kylo orders them to disperse and find the Saber of Skywalker.
    Hux would also become a KoR too. Essentially, the KoR lead the FO.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
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  13. The One Above All

    The One Above All Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 11, 2017
    I don't think there was ever a New Republic in George's Sequel Trilogy plans, at least not for the first movie anyway. We all know he wanted Darth Talon, and I remember the early rumors about a female Sith villain, along with a Republic still yet to be established.
     
  14. BlurryUFOs

    BlurryUFOs Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2016
    i would give rey luke’s ST story. she’s a survivor from the jedi school slaughter, maybe the only. she see’s the rise of kylo and it causes her to lose faith. she runs to jakku. KoR never find her because she cuts herself off from the force and hopes other lightsiders will rise up in place of the jedi. she’s inadvertently pulled into the fight by Finn and stays for Han after his death but still struggles with her faith. kylo could even try to use that trying to pull her to the darkside. this way she’s not a side character in her own story and makes the reveal that she’s the “chosen one” more impactful
     
  15. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    If you were to take that route, I would push back the ST coverage timeline and have Ep. 7 cover Luke, Rey, Kylo and the other students. It ends happily. Then Ep. 8 is when things would really get bad and Kylo turns and slaughters all but Rey and some defectors to Kylo's side. Luke would die. Then 9 would deal with Rey fighting the KoR and emerging triumphant and she goes on to rebuild the Jedi order.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
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  16. WriterMan

    WriterMan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2012
    NOTE: If you just want to read my ideas with no introduction, skip to the emboldened line below. This is a long post.

    My biggest problem with the ST is how Rey fits into all of this now that TLJ has said that she's a "nobody." It's almost as if The Force Awakens was written with absolutely no idea for who she is.

    Rey's being a nobody is fine, to be honest - I think Disney isn't wrong for going in that direction; however, in context of The Force Awakens, it makes no bloody sense at all. There were all of those scenes about how the lightsaber of Anakin Skywalker called to her and Han Solo grimacing as he's asked who she is, along with Leia hugging her as if she's someone she's always known but has not seen in a long time. That film set us up to expect something incredibly different than what we got and it did it purposefully and now nonsensically.

    I think Daisy Ridley could play someone who is about five years older. I know the Rey we've come to know and love has that wide-eyed, fish out of water persona to her but it's not really what we need for this new character. It worked for Luke back in the day, yes, but this is a character who is aware of the First Order and I think her journey would be much more valuable if she was already an established person, even if maybe she doesn't know it. My change will fix this, and bring back an old, forgotten story of the EU back into the mainstream.

    I like the idea of Rey being a former student of Luke's. I like many elements of all of these many ideas I've seen in this thread. Here's what I would do: (note, most of this serves as backstory - the main plotlines of the films we have seen would be barely altered)

    Rey and Ben Solo are Luke's head pupils at Luke's new Jedi Academy. There are other students, perhaps as many as twenty, in their cohort. But none of them are nearly as good as Rey nor Ben.

    They both have qualities that make them unique: Ben is a great speaker and natural leader, who is able to get those around him to follow him to almost anything, even though ultimately he spends most of his time trying to get away from other students and study alone; Rey, however, has a unique power named Battle Meditation, something not seen so strongly in a Jedi padawan since the olden days of the Republic, nearly 4,000 years earlier. They competed with each other a lot, especially in the eyes of Luke, but they were friends and sought to lead the Jedi Order back to its former glory together one day. Rey knows that Ben was named after Kenobi, but that his mother wanted to name him Kyle; she also jokingly calls him a "loner" due to his tendencies to study alone. This leads to her giving him the nickname "Kylo." It's a name he somewhat rejects but she embraces wholeheartedly, no matter what he thinks.

    When the First Order, a new group led under a force sensitive named Snoke besieges New Republic planets on the Outer Rim, Rey and Ben both tell Luke that they believe it necessary to join the fight and save the Republic, while Luke tells them both to heed his wisdom and remember the Jedi Code. "There is no emotion," Luke says. "There is peace."

    Ben, being the more obedient of the two, listens to Luke; however, Rey, being the headstrong pupil that she is, challenges him. Rey pushes Luke for weeks to reconsider and even tells him that she will leave to go fight whether he likes it or not, which leads Luke, in a moment of haste, to exile Rey from the Jedi Order. Rey begs Ben to come with her, but he says that she should reconsider and beg Luke to take her back. She calls him Kylo. He tells her that his name is Ben.

    Consumed by anger and feelings of betrayal, Rey flees the Academy, rushing to find a place in which she can perform her battle meditation. A critical moment in the Republic's survival approaches - Coruscant, the former homeworld of the Republic and the Jedi, is under attack by the First Order. She performs her meditation inside of a secure cave in order to aid the Republic, but the cave is one that Luke uses to show his pupils the errors of the dark side, and it is tainted with its energy. Rey's feelings towards Luke and Ben linger in her mind as the battle rages on, and Snoke's voice gets in her head, making her re-think her ways as a Jedi. In the end, she falls to the dark side and secures a win for the First Order, leaving them to take control of Coruscant.

    Luke can feel the crushing loss of Coruscant from his Academy and feels that he has to do something to stop her. He confronts Rey, but ultimately is defeated. He flees back to the Temple while Rey goes to be with her new master, Snoke.

    Rey tells Snoke that she wishes to embrace the dark side teachings of the Sith and Snoke names her anew: Darth Ren. She leads the First Order to many victories and has her own flagship named Ren's Fist.

    Luke decides to join the fight, preparing Ben to lead a strike team to ambush Ren on her own flagship while her ships are too engaged with the Republic fleet in battle. Ben Solo, along with a few of his fellow Jedi, reach the bridge of Ren's Fist and engage in battle with Ren.

    Meanwhile, Snoke can feel this battle occurring from his own ship, and he is impressed with Ben's prowess. Snoke feeling that perhaps Ben is a better and more worthy potential pupil, he orders his commander to fire upon the bridge of Ren's Fist with the intention to kill Rey, using the force to vault Ben out of the blast zone. Ben is unscathed, but his team and all of those aboard the bridge are dead. Only Ren remains, and he can sense that her mind has been badly damaged. Yearning for the years of their friendship and camaraderie, Ben flees Ren's Fist aboard a tiny shuttle with Rey's body in his arms. But in his mind, he can hear Snoke whispering. And it stays there.

    Ben returns Rey to the Jedi Academy and Luke thanks him, mourning those lost. He places Rey in a bacta tank, leaving her robes and dark helmet on display nearby.

    Luke has counsel with those he trusts most: Yoda and Obi-Wan. He ultimately decides that the best thing for the Republic, for the Jedi, is to reprogram Rey's mind with a new identity and asks Ben to serve as her new master.

    But Ben does not agree. He thinks she should know who she is and turn on her own, reclaim her heritage as a Jedi through realizing that the light side is truly better for the galaxy. But in the back of his mind, he can hear Snoke challenging him. Maybe the light side isn't better.

    Luke proceeds with his plans, and Ben is furious. Ben, listening to Snoke and embittered by his feelings for Rey, adorns the mask of Darth Ren and does battle with Luke. Luke wins, banishing Ben, but Ben meets with his fellow Jedi pupils, such as Alek and Rosh Penin, and they together form a small group of dark Jedi dedicated to saving Rey. They call themselves the Knights of Ren, headed up by their leader, Kylo.

    In the meantime, Luke has already reprogrammed Rey's mind, but listening to Ben, he decides not to use her as a weapon of the Jedi, realizing that would be the way of the Sith. He instead leaves her on Jakku, knowing that she is more than capable of making her way there as talented and remarkable as she is. With all the of the knowledge programmed into her brain, she'll be fine.

    This does not stop the Knights of Ren from destroying Luke's Jedi temple, however, and those that defend Luke are murdered. Luke flees, programming a map to find him inside of R2D2, who sends in a shuttle back to Leia. Kylo discovers that Rey is gone, and makes a deal with Snoke to be his apprentice as long as together, they can find Rey.

    -----
    This is obviously a rough draft, so it's far from perfect. It obviously incorporates many elements from the Old EU (especially one story in particular...) and wouldn't change much about the films other than the flashback scenes in The Last Jedi, Kylo Ren's Vader idolization, and the dialogue in the duel between Kylo Ren and Rey on Starkiller Base.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
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  17. CaptainEO

    CaptainEO Jedi Grand Master star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2002
    Episode 7
    Luke Skywalker has not vanished.
    While he was around being totally
    heroic, the sinister FIRST ORDER
    has risen from darkness and
    will not rest until Skywalker, has
    been destroyed.

    With the support of the
    REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa,
    Jedi Knight, (because Episode 6
    promised she had that power too)
    leads a brave New Jedi Order.
    She is desperate to help in maintain
    peace and justice in the galaxy.

    Leia has sent Han and her padawan,
    Rey, along with C-3P0,
    on a secret mission
    to Jakku, where an old ally
    has discovered a clue to
    the mysterious new threat....


    Episode 8
    The FIRST ORDER reigns!
    Having decimated the peaceful
    Republic, Supreme Leader Ren
    now deploys the merciless
    legions of SITH to seize military
    control of the galaxy.

    Only General Leia Organa's
    small band of JEDI fighters
    stand against the rising
    tyranny, certain that Jedi
    Master Luke Skywalker will
    return and restore a spark of
    hope to the fight.

    But the Jedi have been
    exposed. As the First Order
    speeds toward the REPUBLIC CAPITAL,
    Chancellor Calrissian and the brave
    heroes mount a desperate defense....
     
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  18. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    "STAR WARS

    Episode VII

    SHADOW OF THE FORCE

    A fractured galaxy is in crisis. After relative peace, several worlds question the ability of the NEW REPUBLIC to protect them from the rising scourge of Outer Rim warlords.

    The IMPERIUM have pushed for the reestablishment of a Galactic Army to maintain order. Princess Leia Organa Solo has called for an increased role for the Jedi, but vested interests conspire against unifying the ALLIANCE with the remnant of the Empire, or for the return of the guardians of peace and justice.

    Meanwhile a mysterious syndicate known as THE ORDER has emerged from the shadows and openly challenges the authority of the Senate, vowing to destroy the Jedi Knights. General Han Solo travels to Jedha, to seek the help of his best friend Luke Skywalker. Only with the Jedi Master's help, can the galaxy be reunited once more..."


    Have the "Shadow" be revealed to be Darth Plageuis. The title of the movie would rhyme with "Phantom Menace" to allude to the Shadow being the last of the dark siders. Have Plageuis manipulate the young Ben Solo and disaffected Jedi Knights to aligning with him over a "Jedi Order which only observes and does not interfere." Plageuis can manipulate Ben into acting (leading a group of Jedi)/intervening in a situation where a village is raided by gangsters (set up by Plageuis to happen). Several Jedi are killed, and Plageuis demonstrates his healing abilities to sway Ben to the dark side. The Republic as usual arrives too late, and that only on the insistence/unsanctioned actions of Han/Leia over the corrupt bureaucracy of the New Senate. The New Republic uses Luke's heritage against him, to maintain their own power and keep the Empire as a scapegoat for all its problems. They claim Luke can't even control his own students. Outlaw the Jedi. Plageuis manipulates all this to TURN Ben against the Jedi Order and Republic and believes only a new ORDER can enforce the galaxy by using the Force. Luke's mission and the story of this trilogy will be to end the dark sider once and for all by killing this once upon Sith who discovered the secret of the Whills to perpetuate his own life. (He hid from Palpatine, when Palpatine thought he had successfully killed him). Plageuis perhaps seized Imperial equipment and manipulated disaffected warlords to side with him, and bide their time, manipulating events from afar. Have the ultimate aim be to reestablish the Jedi Order (which could be attacked by both the Republic and the Order), Luke discovering meaning of the Force/Whills. Luke defeating evil and passing the torch to Leia/the Skywalker offspring by trilogies end. Big sunset and fireworks at end. Plageuis defeated. Possible redemption of a twisted Ben who sacrifices himself to save his cousin and parents, realising who was manipulating events all along. Have the secret also save the souls of the Jedi killed by Order 66 so you can have Windu return as a Force ghost along with Aayla Secura, etc for the closing scene of Episode IX. There. Do this.
     
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  19. 11-4D

    11-4D Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2015
  20. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    If only right? I mean I would always defer to whatever Lucas had planned (according to recent statements by him, and Hamil), but I hope this story that I have put forward at least makes some sense and logically continues from ROTJ, tying everything together. Continuing (by having a reason to continue), and concluding the saga appropriately as one Skywalker story. The Father, the Son, and the Grandchildren. The fall and rise of the Jedi. The rise and fall of the Sith. The formation of a more perfect government free of corruption. The Jedi, the true Knights of the Whills rediscovered. The defeat of evil and the reestablishment of the Jedi Order, a unified galaxy, and the Force truly balanced.
     
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  21. 11-4D

    11-4D Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Absolutely. Oh well. At this point Star Wars is more wasted opportunities than opportunities taken. I’ve kind of checked out at this point, but there’s not going to be anything new for years anyways.
     
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  22. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Just for fun I keep tweaking my 'revised ST fan trilogy' idea. Here goes:

    EP 7: The Force Awakens (set 30 years after ROTJ)

    Legacy Characters:
    • Luke has been MIA for 5 years. He went searching for some ancient Jedi knowledge and was never seen from again. Most think he's now dead, as no one can sense him in the force. Luke taught that Jedi's are all students of the Force, no one is a master over any other.
    • Leia is a high ranking founding member of the newly established New Republic. She's overseeing the creation of a new senate and is trying to convince more worlds to join the movement. The galaxy knows full well what joining a government in the name of "security and peace" leads to, and some are weary of signing up.
    • Han Solo is a semi-retired admiral of New Republic Fleet. They patrol the known borders and make sure the peace is kept from any hostile agents from trying to take advantage of the vacuum of power still left over from the dissolution of the Empire. The fleet is mostly comprised of old Star Destroyers, which were confiscated from the Empire and rebranded as Star Defenders. Criminal gangs and other warlords have kept him busy for the past few decades.
    ACT 1:
    • The movie opens with a half dozen or so Jedi monks in a small cruiser. This is a friendlier, spunkier, rag-tag group of Jedi than we saw in the PT. Gone are the dogma, the rigidity, and the robes. We learn that for the past few years they've basically just roamed the galaxy doing small good deeds in the name of the Force, trying to earn the Jedi's place as protectors once more. Ben Solo is one of the oldest members, but there doesn't seem to be any hierarchy here.
    • The small band of Jedi answer a strange distress call and land on the junk planet Jakku. They land near a small destroyed village, and meet Lor San Tekka, the village elder, and Rey, a scavenger. Lor tells them that strange barbaric warrior-raiders came last week. They stole a few kids, as well as parts, and left the village in flames. Lor has been taking care of Rey for as long as she can remember and has told her strange tales about the Jedi, the Force, and the fall of the Empire. Rey is the clear protagonist and the story is about her journey. She likes his "tall-tales", but largely sees them as old myths or bedtime stories. Ben, on the other hand, is intrigued by her and can sense the Force within her.
    • Ben calls Leia and tells her about the raids and kidnappings. Sensing an opportunity to show the galaxy that the NR can provide true safety, she sends Han and her best pilots to Jakku for protection. However things turn worse, when the warriors - wearing a hodgepodge of beat up stormtrooper armor - raid the village once more. We see them led by a taller warrior wearing chrome armor, who oddly reminds them all of Vader. She introduces herself as Captain Phasma from the First Order and warns the village that more raids will come if they don't hand over any children immediately. She kills Tekka in front of everyone as a demonstration. The Jedi sense the dark side all around them, and then fight back. With a little help from Rey, they prevail and the strange warriors escape empty handed.
    • During the battle we're introduced to Finn, who defects from this warrior group and tells the Jedi and Rey that he was kidnapped from some other planet as kid. He said thousands have been stolen from the border regions. Each one undergoes force testing. If there's no connection they're brainwashed, trained, and turned into soldiers. Finn mentions that he "woke up" weeks ago and had to escape. Ben and the Jedi now realize that this mysterious group is trying to build an order of dark siders. Perhaps they too felt Rey's strong connection to the Force and came here to investigate. Perhaps they overlooked her since they're only looking for kids. Now....matters are worse.
    • Captain Poe Dameron, and the Republic forces led by Han Solo in the Falcon, swoop in and rescue the remaining survivors. Ben tells Rey that she should come with them to be trained as Jedi, if she wants. Or else, they may come back for her eventually. Rey agrees to join.

    ACT 2:
    • While the fleet stays behind to offer security in this region, the Jedi, Han, Poe, Finn and Rey head back to NR capital. Here Rey (and us) are introduced to Leia. It's similar to how Lando shows Han around Bespin in ESB. Here Leia is talking about all her work, and shows them (us) what's been achieved in the last 30 years. We see a young breathing living city, a place where all people's gather, but nothing like the artificial and corrupt Coruscant.
    • For the first time we'd get a scene showing the FO. Their fleet of scrappy fighters and bulk head cruisers. It's all been scavenged together. Here we see Hux and Phasma talk to their shadowy Supreme Leader via hologram (who we don't see clearly) who tells them at the something has changed...a new light has been awakened. The force child they've been searching for may have been found by the Jedi. He orders them to engage with the NR and find this child at once.
    • Meanwhile Ben and the Jedi want to explore who this dark side warrior group was. They pick up word of another raid this time along the outer rim, near the border with the UR. Leia gives them their first government approved charter - find these criminals, dispose of them if need be, and bring back these kids. Finn explains that he wants to help, and he thinks he knows what they're up to next. Finn, Rey and Poe all have that budding friendship vibe, while Ben plays the mentor role.
    • As they head out to the border, Ben teaches Rey a few tips during the adventure. He teaches her about the Jedi history, what Luke taught them, and how he even misses his old master. Looking back on their fight, he begins thinking the Jedi need an actual master again, someone to train them to fight. After Jakku, he becomes concerned that Luke's ways aren't going to work. Ben is a decent person, and the other Jedi do look up to him, but he has his Skywalker traits; realist, bold, impatient, and arrogant, kind.
    • Once they arrive at the planet they see a similar to what happened on Jakku. This time it's worse. The smoldering ruins left behind from the raid. There are no children here, and the survivors explain who took them. The FO purposefully led a trail for the Jedi to follow...and so the team begins their journey closer into the UR border.

    ACT 3:

    • The Jedi, the NR fleet and the FO engage in a space battle, the first real one in years. Rey, Finn, and Poe fend for themselves. Han dies protecting the new generation of heroes, and has a good touching moment with his son. Ben and the Jedi fight off the warriors and finally confront Phasma. The Jedi are once again a bit sloppy but hold their own. By the end of it all Ben tells the Jedi that they need a new Master, and since he's the blood line descendant of Skywalker, it should be him. Half of the Jedi agree with his leadership and want to follow him. A few others, however, including Rey, think that bloodlines shouldn't matter, and that they should at least go find Luke for help first, if he's even alive. Rey goes from thinking these stories are just myths, to wanting to believe they actually exist and thinking she can make a difference. Ben feels a bit betrayed by Rey's disloyalty to him and all his help. He feels resentful of her and dismisses her plans of finding Luke.

    • The movie would end with Ben now leading his Jedi group to find the leader/origin of this mysterious imperial warrior sect deep in the Unknown Regions. While the other group, with Rey, and Leia's blessing, go find Luke Skywalker.
    And with this, we see a division is already appearing in the Jedi group and question where it will all lead. Basically EP 7 is about how the OT heroes have a legacy (their children, the New Jedi, and the NR) they want to protect, and pass to the torch over to. While the bad guys don't have any legacy at all, and are left with scavenging/stealing it back. This mirrors the old PT Jedi who took force sensitive kids from their parents at an early age, so that they could be dogmatically trained in the Jedi arts. Now we see the villains doing this and we know what that leads to. Meanwhile, the Jedi are already splitting up into 2 factions, one going with Ben, and one trying to find Luke, and there's a struggle to keep this all together and not repeat the same mistakes as the past. We don't want another jedi v sith civil war again. We have to keep it together and move forward.

    EP 8 would start a year later, with Rey finally finding Luke, who's not all together there, still a bit grumpy, and unwilling to train anyone. The other Jedi have mentored Rey during this time, and she's grown a bit. There's a message about how we all teach each other new things, and how we really are all students listening to the greater Force. Luke and Rey find bond, and find a new way forward. Luke reveals that he was on that island to protect some knowledge from getting into the wrong hands, particularly Ben's. He feels Ben might be corrupted by it, and is just trying to save the 'boy'. We also learn that Rey was with Lor San Tekka for a reason, possibly even that Rey might be Luke's long lost child. Meanwhile Ben and his group find the origins of the strange Imperial warrior sect, but it has a cost; Ben is becoming power mad and starts to don his own new armor for protection. His knights are soon idealizing him, and they invent a new name for themselves. When he finally meets the Supreme Leader, he's offered a deal.
     
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  23. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    the last jedi "some" fanboys wanted. ahhahahah!

    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Jcuk

    Jcuk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2013
    I think a brief explanation of what happened to the remnants of the old Empire after ROTJ and the rise of the First Order would’ve greatly benefited TFA. 30 years is a long time
     
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  25. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Absolutely this. It is hard to understand why they think it is unnecessary when it is absolutely vital.