ST The ST: What Would You Change/Revise?

I was thinking of making this exact thread, and I'm glad I found it! Except now I don't get credit for making it myself. I'm going to resist the urge to be entirely hypocritical, because I see that a lot of you have written long and likely well thought out pieces, and I haven't done more than skim any of them. So, I won't write a long one myself, because I'd be a complete jerk if I expected anyone to read that before I read theirs (I'll read them and post my own idea, I promise).

So, my short idea. This is strictly taking what we got, and tweaking it around the edges, to make (what I think would be) a much better series:

TFA
Not much to change here, I would just change Starkiller Base to be using a regular Superlaser, but it has a built-in hyperspace portal (think a giant Stargate) so it can fire anywhere. The main difference is that we don't see the beam firing across space. It fires into the portal, and then emerges near the target. This change is strictly because I hate that visual, its one of the few times in Star Wars I can't turn my brain off when it comes to the physics.

TLJ Two big changes: Luke, and the chase plot.

The chase plot is a bit simpler to fix. Forget the 18 hours til we run out of fuel, the movie should just go whole hog and rip off Battlestar Galactica '33' entirely, and just have the First Order constantly tracking down the fleet (this would allow brief glimpses of the FO taking over the Galaxy). Instead of finding a slicer, the Canto Bight subplot is about finding someone who helped design the tracking system (the planet is full of arms dealers, after all) who knows the countermeasure to the tracking system. If we keep the 'Poe is a hothead' plot, then Poe wants to use the countermeasure to lure the First Order into a trap, while Holdo wants to use it to just get away (also, Holdo should be a New Republic admiral, to help justify the friction between her and Poe).

For Luke, I'm scrapping the idea of him igniting his lightsaber on instinct plot point entirely. I hate it, hate it, hate it. That leaves two options. One, Luke explains that he was tempted by the Dark Side to take the quick and easy path to kill Kylo. You might say that was what happened, and we're supposed to fill in the blanks, but Luke never tells Rey that, and he's supposed to be training her about the nature of the Force, so its kind of important to explain how the Dark Side works to her. If it was the Dark Side, then Luke's making excuses for his own actions, rather than giving Rey a useful lesson that even the greatest of Jedi can be tempted.

However, I don't think that that is the best path. Instead, what I would do is a little more subtle. To use a baseball analogy, its often the mediocre players that go on to make great coaches, because they understand struggling better than the truly gifted players. Luke is a truly gifted Jedi Knight. That doesn't automatically mean he'd be a great teacher. I think his whole arc (off and on screen) should have been that, in his initial eagerness to rebuilt the Jedi Order, he took on too many apprentices, and wasn't able to appreciate the challenges they were facing, because of his own innate gifts, and the luxury of having been trained under the greatest Jedi teacher of all. Further, his own success in resisting the temptation of the Dark Side (he willingly accepted what should have been certain death twice rather than turn) and in turning Darth Vader left him overconfident in his ability to keep his students on the right path. Combine that the pressure Ben would have, as his nephew, to live up to Luke's example, to do great things and be an exemplary Jedi Knight.

Ben's desire for greatness, Luke's rush to rebuilt the order, and his belief that he can save anyone from the Dark Side combine in a toxic brew to result in Ben turning so hard that Luke is blindsided by it. Shellshocked by the betrayal, Luke self-exiles. Not to die alone and extinguish the Jedi, but to complete his own training, as he's lost faith in his own abilities as a teacher. When Rey comes to him, he's not the grouchy but wise Jedi master, but one that has lost his confidence in himself to train the next generation (somber, hesitant, introspective). But Rey inspires him with her enthusiasm, and he realizes near the beginning of the movie (rather than the end) that his failure with Ben was a lesson he needed to learn to be a better teacher, for Rey. And that he can't take a shortcut (cough, dark side, cough) and train a dozen or more apprentices to get the Jedi numbers back up. He needs to train them one at a time, it will take centuries and millennia to truly restore the Jedi Order.

That was still longer than I meant to write. Sorry!

 

I'd slightly tweak The Force Awakens to freshen up the entire sequel trilogy with just one character change:

Rey is replaced by the character of Ron Skywalker.

Like Rey, Ron lives on Jakku, but instead of being a scavenger, he is a musician with mad guitar skills because he has the force. Ron and his pal, Tony Best play gigs most nights in the Cantinas and clubs in and around Niima outpost. They are managed by Unklar Plutt, who takes 50% of their earnings.

One evening, Ron is sitting outside his RV, strumming his guitar and eating Pringles, while Tony is ‘entertaining’ a lady inside. Ron hears BB-8’s beeping over the sand dunes, and like Rey, he gets caught up in the Resistance storyline that Rey had in The Force Awakens.

Much of the story of The Force Awakens plays out as we saw it on screen, until the moment when Kylo Ren caputures Ron outside Maz’s castle. Whilst interrogating Ron, Kylo can detect Ron’s mad skills with the guitar, so breaks out his own stratocaster to show him what an awesome guitarist he is. Kylo and Ron start sharing banter, so Kylo releases Ron’s restraints and the two enjoy a jamming session.

Supreme Leader Snoke orders Kylo to come and conference with him, so he leaves Ron in the interrogation chamber, saying he’ll be back in 10 minutes to carry on jamming.

Whilst he’s away, Ron steals Kylo’s guitar and makes his escape. Snoke gives Kylo a b*llocking for di*king about and tells him to go back to the interrogation chamber to get details of the Map to Skywalker out of Ron.

Much of the rest of the film plays out as The Force Awakens does…until Kylo confronts Finn and Ron in the Forest on Starkiller Base. Now enraged, Kylo points at his guitar and says “that stratocaster…it belongs to me!”, but as it’s in Finn's possession, Kylo has to pull out a new guitar so they can engage in an epic strum-off.

Much of the rest of the scene plays out as in The Force Awakens…Finn gets knocked unconscious by Kylo’s mad skills, who then turns his attention to Ron. The two engage in an awesome guitar battle where Ron is pushed to his very limits. Sensing Ron has skills, but not as mad as his own, Kylo offers Ron his services as a teacher: “I can show you how to really bash a tune out on that thing…and the ways of the force”.

Ron remembers his force training, shuts his eyes and unleashes a crazy, old-skool riff that knocks Kylo to the floor in disbelief. But as Kylo is grounded, the ground on Starkiller base starts to break up, separating the combatants.

The rest of the films plays out as in The Force Awakens…until the final scene, where Ron finds Luke, who is sat on the top of a mountain penning a mean tune. Luke stands and turns to face Ron, who is holding out an electric blue stratocaster with gold strings and awesome flame graphics.

The End.

 

Agreed.

The original Jedi Killer concept was alot more creeper and intimidating then what we got on film. Making the Jedi Killer Han and Leia's son was a mistake IMO. In fact, I am starting to think Han and Leia should have never had any offspring. One of the changes I suggested was making Rey their daughter, but now that I think about it she should be a random or Luke's daughter.

 

1. Opening Crawl of TLJ. I would have edited the crawl to say something to the effect of "Despite destroying SKB, Snoke's agents are ruthlessly pursuing the Resistance throughout the galaxy." Hearkens back to ESB.

2. Scrap the Laura Dern character. Just doesn't work.

3. Made Max Von Sydow Rey's grandfather (her mother's father). Could have had her death at the hands of Snoke be the reason she is hidden. Again, Hearkens back to ObiWan watching over Luke.

4. Similar to 3, have Rey be Luke's daughter. "The force is strong with my family. My father had it. I have it. And my DAUGHTER has it." Nice tie-in with ROTJ.

5. Some backstory about Snoke. I've always thought it made the most sense that he would be Darth Plagueis. He could have had a line where he says "My young apprentice thought he knew everything I did about the Force. Of course, overconfidence was always his weakness." Ties in with Luke's line to the Emperor in ROTJ.

6. Used the casino scene to have a Lando cameo. Taylor made for that.

I'm sure there are others, but that's some of my initial thoughts.

 

This is a very broad level idea I just had. Rather than the idea of the First Order as "Nazis in Argentina," I originally thought it might be better if the First Order were a more exact analogue to the Nazis. As in, they're the ones remilitarizing a humiliated Empire. Thus, in this version, the OT is basically WW1, and the galaxy falls apart afterward into independent states, with the Empire one of them (and the New Republic, another), and the First Order are the guys in the Empire that say "Screw this, we shouldn't have lost, it was all somebody else's fault!"

But there was something at the back of my mind that just didn't fit with this idea. And then, it hit me: Endor is supposed to be the fall of a Galactic Empire. What historical parallel do we have to that? We've never had one Empire that dominated everyone and then fell to become a Republic. Whats the closest we've ever even come to having one Empire? I'd say Rome (call it Eurocentric bias if you will). All of a sudden, a whole new paradigm opened up to me:

With the Fall of the Empire, the galaxy has indeed broken up into many rival states, and while our heroes have successful restored the Republic, it is nowhere near reunifying the galaxy. Snoke sees himself as Justinian, with destiny entrusting him with the task of restoring the Empire, and Kylo Ren is his Belisarius. Now, obviously, those historical individuals were far more complex than really works for a Space Opera (in particular because both men were, though flawed, a net positive for humanity, in my opinion). However, as an archetype, it works very well, because it instantly gives Kylo a solid reason to turn to the Dark Side: He's watching the New Republic try and fail to restore peace and order to the galaxy, but they're just too weak, too diplomatic, too cautious to get the job done. For all its flaws, the Empire, as the heir to the Old Republic, was able to maintain a unified galactic state, and kept the peace. Taking the slow, patient road might work for the Jedi, but every day that the galaxy remains divided is a day that billions are living in the shadow of whatever looming war might erupt between two rival planets. Action needs to be taken, decisive military action. If the remnant of the Empire is the only state willing to do what needs to be done, then thats who he's with. This also helps flesh out his obsession with Vader, as the enforcer of that peace and order.

 

I do want to know more about the Knights of Ren. Perhaps that’s for IX.

 

Another change that came to mind: Have Snoke be Plagueis. Give him an ability to transmigrate to a prepared body after death, which allowed him to surivee Palapatine, but required years for him to recover from. His good looks are a result of a clash with Luke. Now, Luke's off in search of a way to kill Snoke off permanently after narrowly escaping from a trap set by Ben and Snoke. That's the lead-in, and the reason Luke is at the First Temple. Additionally, Snoke is grooming Ben to be his next host because of that Skywalker bloodline.

 

I don't disagree with all those.

SKB is the big one for me. I'd keep the same broad strokes (ie it's a new weapon that can kill star systems) but I'd make it more like the Sith temple in Rebels, and I'd make the attack on it different, and - if possible, it may not be - I'd have Rey need to stop it using the Force when the attack run fails because the FO doesn't make the Empire's mistake and this one can't be blown up. I'd de-klutz Finn with the explosives and I'd have him take out a couple more troopers as well with the baton. I'd also shake the location design up and trim out three of four fan service beats.

In TLJ, I'd tone down some of the humour (not all), remove some clunky exposition and... Maybe tweak some of Snoke's dialogue in his final scene to not be quite so on the nose. I'd look to see if I could tighten up the Canto Bight stuff (definitely change Slowen Lo's goofy voice) if possible and I think I'd make Holdo a bit more of a hard-ass. Maybe. That's about it. Nothing major for either.

 

Love the host body approach. Nice and evil.

 

See, this is where we get onto a sticky wicket. That sounds worse than what (admittedly little re Snoke) we've got so far to me.

 

You forgot to add IMO lol...

Seriously though, why do you think that? Not saying I agree with @HandofSkywalker86 ... but it was an idea that made me smile.

 

But I did put in to me. Some variations are allowed

It felt too convoluted to me, and on a personal level, Plagueis does nothing for me. I'm not a massive fan of the possession angle either - though tbf, never say never until you see the finished context and execution. I guess I'm coming at it from a POV of how - how can you take the scripts we've got and with some tweaks, improve those. I really, really like the Luke and Ben arc we're getting so far. And so the version being teased there doesn't work for me. I do like the idea of Snoke having a personal grievance against Skywalker and the Republic, and I think that's part of his (as yet not shown onscreen) backstory isn't it? that could have been fun to give more insight on. It would be fascinating to see the shooting scripts, to see what was originally intended to be the film before getting the snip. There was a line about Snoke's slippers in there at one point apparently, so maybe there was a little more hinted at, but then they felt it didn't work in the edit. I've written films where things have been cut, that you totally had figured out, which then get cut for pacing etc. Sometimes you're like "WHY DID YOU TAKE THAT OUT?!" . Other times you think "ah, yeah, we so didn't need that". It'd be fascinating to see what those elements were in TFA and TLJ.

 

What if Snoke is actually a Jedi Survivor?
Released by the Empire during their retreat he understanding what's truly needed approached Luke to set up a new Jedi Order in the form of a Theocracy.
Since his plan involves his new Order ruling an Imperial dominion Luke objects but most of his students side with Snoke as few share Luke's benevolent nature.
Ben is intent on becoming his Grandfather's successor firmly believing only those who wield the force have the right to rule with everyone else in essence a second class citizen.

What I'd change is have SKB devastate the system it orbits to recharge it's hyperdrive allowing it to move thereby it can be revealed as the Death Star prototype it just too long to complete which is why Krennik sought out Galen Erso.
Second keep Poe involved he recognises the Falcon calls Han so he picks them up and takes them to Takodana to contact Leia.
The Falcon needs quite a bit of maintenance before they can risk hyperspace that's why Rey mentioned it hasn't flown in years should emphasize this!
Third Han isn't carting Rathtars he's smuggling supplies for the Resistance!
We meet Poe's squadron aboard meaning we leave D'Qar for episode 8!
Four Unkar Plutt gives the FO the frequency for the tracker aboard the Falcon which leads Kylo to Takodana the FO spy only confirms this.
Kylo flees after capturing Rey as Leia turns up.
Prompted by Finn, Han gives chase in the Falcon as SKB turns up, both ships crashlands on the superweapon during which Phasma's caves in too easily as seen.
They find Rey, Han is killed by Kylo etc the shields taken down by the explosives, Poe's squad seriously damage SKB eventually blows it up but enough time for people to be evacuated.

Episode 8
Maz contacts Leia as Takodana was raided causing considerable damage however the interference is due to the SKB becoming its second star.
Holdo is a NR Vice Admiral sent to bring Leia back before the Senate to dissolve the Resistance.
Holdo witnesses SKB destroy the system is seriously shaken refusing to wear her uniform because she understands Leia was right about the FO!
Poe helps her surviving ships reach D'Qar distracting the arriving FO forces that Maz warned them about.
The Bombers are destroyed taking out the Dreadnought which wouldn't have happened without Poe's distraction.
Doesn't stop Holdo blaming him though she is clearly grief stricken and in shock.
Most of the Resistance had already left as they knew the FO would find them.
We learn the map to find Luke was a red herring intended to reveal how badly the NR was infiltrated what we witnessed was R2 revealing the route as well as hide Leia's deception.
All of the ships the New Republic provided the Resistance were tagged which was how they stayed ahead keeping their secrets.
The ships Han smuggled for them aren't tagged, but Holdo's ship the Raddus is tagged.
However if they can infiltrate the Supremacy and delete their records on the Resistance AND the Rebel Alliance they will be able to regroup in the Outer Rim this is because when Hux blew up the Hosnian system it destroyed the master database meaning Snoke's flagship is likely the only copy they have.
The whole scheme is a trap for Finn to lure Rey out of hiding before she completed her training.

Oh as for Rey she's revealed as a fully trained Padawan of a Jedi Survivor who raised her after she was left on Jakku.

Note she's already completed her training Luke merely helps prep her to face Snoke.

Phasma is Rey's Aunt she caved in to help Finn rescue Rey.
In 8 after being captured she freed Finn to help her save Rey so Snoke tries to corrupt Rey, Luke projects himself stunning Snoke in the process we learn Snoke forced Kylo to kill Han this is what causes Kylo to kill Snoke!

Finn rescue Rey as Kylo assumes the throne surrounded by his Knights he assumes Phasma aided him under Hux's orders.

By the time the FO corners the Raddus we discover it's surrounded by empty drone ships with only Holdo aboard she uses the ships to ram the FO fleet with her charging the Supremacy that's still recovering from Kylo usurping the throne.

 

I'd put it 100+ years in the future. Most of what we see in the movies is still intact, but the rise of the FO came about due to a century of peace, and after Chancellor Organa and Grand Master Skywalker had died of natural causes. Their stories and such are explored mainly as legends, via holograms/holocrons and so on. Maybe even force ghosts to hand the stick over to the new generation.

It's so much easier to not mess anything up with a clean slate like that. I'd really prefer it.

 

Some new ideas I've been kicking around:

1. Make the First Order an insurgent group rather than a formal, large-scale military machine. The Republic is the predominant force.
2. Snoke is a charismatic, brilliant military strategist with mild force sensitivity.
3. The Republic has a military who can fight against the insurgency - no need for a Resistance.
4. The 'First Order' look more like Saw's rebels in Rogue One - i.e. - more rag tag, but use old imperial helmets and some technology etc.
5. Kylo is a fallen Jedi who has a much more strict interpretation of what it means to be a Jedi. This leads to him leaving Luke and allying with Snoke.
6. Kylo actively searches the galaxy for force sensitives to train according to his doctrine.
7. Kylo didn't destroy Luke's academy. He simply went AWOL due to his fundamental differences with Luke. Luke still has Jedi students (including his star pupil, Rey) under his tutelage. He also rejects the old ways of the Jedi, his views being more progressive.
8. Maybe the 'First Order' isn't inherently evil, nor is Kylo's strict interpretation of the Force. This makes the story less black and white (with Han and Leia torn between their allegiance to the Republic and the love of their Son), and while Luke and the Republic are more progressive and liberal, Kylo and Snoke can be anti-heroes rather than outright villains, adding a new dynamic to the established Star Wars troupes.

 

In all honesty, for all of my issues with TLJ, the ST as it stands now would be OK by me if
- Luke was out on Ahch-to waiting/planning for something rather than just sitting there waiting to die, and,
- The nonsense about Luke considering homicide against his sleeping nephew wasn't there, and,
- Luke hadn't apparently died at the end of TLJ.

Those are three my major issues. Change those, and I am OK with where we are.

 

Lucasfilm stated that Leia's fate wouldn't change following the death of Carrie Fisher nor would the story for TLJ. Basically, they proceeded as the original script called for.

I feel this was a mistake. With Carrie's passing, the brain trust at LFL/Disney should have made the tough decision and alter the TLJ.

The decision should have been made to make change in post-production and have Luke survive into the third film. It's obvious that Episode IX was supposed to be Leia and and Kylo's film. Without Leia or Luke, I feel the IX will lack that "elder skywalker" that is needed to be compelling.

Not saying the writers wont come up with something else quite compelling. But, simply put, Luke should have survived till IX in the wake of Carrie's death.

IMO, of course.

 

Only change I would make would have had one director/vision for the entire trilogy - regardless of who it was. Plan out how this Disney SW Saga would have went for the entire trilogy and then produced it. 2 movies in and having 2 completely different type of movies with the SW logo slapped on it was a poor way to go - regardless of plot points.

 

This is true. Though I think the dream scenario would've been George Lucas as the Idea Guy™, providing the overall vision and over-arching framework for the movies, with great directors and screenwriters making the actual individual movies great. That way we would've retained the visionary behind it all, and still received movies of the highest quality. Worked for ESB could've been brilliant going forwards!

 

TLJ should have ended in Snoke's throne room with Rey taking Kylo's hand and a hard cut to credits.

Would have been some cliffhanger and shortened the overly long runtime.

If Disney and modern Lucasfilm were in charge of ESB they would have nixed the Darth Vader reveal at the end.

 

Don't kill Luke. His death still just feels unnecessary. It's not even told why exactly he died. He just have just.. not faded away. And then Rey goes back and trains between the movies.

 

He died because the effort required to project himself in the way he did killed him. Kylo sets that up when he and Rey first talk.


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This is a total fanboy fantasy on my part, but imagine this:

Rey and Kylo go back to back as the Praetorian Guards close in, and then... Duel of the Fates kicks in.

I love the scene as it is in TLJ, but that would have been one hell of a music cue. I know Duel of the Fates is more appropriate to the prequels and the conflict between Jedi and Sith, but there's such a mythic quality to that piece that I can't help thinking about marrying it to that moment. If anything, I would have liked some choral accompaniment to that fight scene to augment how monumental it felt.

 

The major thing I would change is the visual design. Having Ties, X-wings, Star destroyers all again makes the obviously similar set-up to the OT even more blindingly obvious, and is really boring, when compared to all previous SW films, which were built around their incredible visuals.

 

Yes - I enjoyed the nostalgia in TFA, but agree that it's repetitive. I really liked the visual design of Saw's rebels in Rogue One and would have loved that more guerrilla/terrorist look for the First Order soldiers - more rag tag and informal but some design cues from the Empire - some fighters would wear old Scout trooper helmets for example.