Discussion The ST would suffer the same fate as the PT

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Lord-Draco, May 18, 2013.

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  1. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    Nothing, even AWESOME ST films, will ever live up the OT simply because it is a different world today. One could almost blame the OT itself for this being as it was these films that created and evolved into the current state of films.

    There was good acting AND bad acting in the OT as well. Personally, I wouldn't blame the acting for what most see the PT to be. The things that stuck with us from the OT happened very naturally. When you try to repeat certain reactions and connections on purpose, it rarely works. I also think that the story, although basically works, lacked a certain thoughtfulness that the OT had.

    For the record, I like the PT for what it is. I'm an original generation Star Wars guy, and the PT was fine for me, but that's not to say there are not things I don't like about it. I'm also a Star Wars film guy, so no EU influence here.....
  2. EHT Manager: New Films

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    But everyone is reminded to continue to play nice... it got a little close to the edge there for a while, and this is a topic with the potential to drive the thread into lockville if the OT vs the PT stuff gets too heated. Thanks.

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  3. Slash78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2004
    star 3
    When people think of the OT it's usually the ESB. That's when you see the best dialogue and acting. Not that the original three were great actors, but Kirschner got the most out of them. Some of ANH's dialogue can be teeth grinding at times. Not as bad as anything that ever came out of Jar Jar's mouth or the private scenes with Padme and Anakin, but they hardly flow smoothly. The PT were a success despite those limitations because of 1) visually they are good movies, 2) the overall story, 3) John Williams.

    In the ST we'll have stories by Lucas, a director who can do big visual stuff. (And before you complain about lens flares, but happy it's not the explosions Michael Bay uses endlessly). And John Williams will likely be back. Though he's 81, will be 83 before Ep VII comes out and 87 when Ep IX comes out.

    Daredevil was awful, Electra even worse. By comparison even TPM was merely disappointing.
  4. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    For me, it wasn't the story that was the problem in the PT but the acting and editing. There were some things that should've been re-shot and some things edited out that wasn't up to quality. Bottom line is, Lucas got soft on his actors and accepted a low quality cut from his editor when he should have stuck with his own hardline methods from back in the '70s.

    Maybe one day Disney will have one of their own editors go back and examine all the PT shot footage and put out a revised version that would enhance Lucasfilm's cut, instead.

    I still think they should have played it safe with something that succeeded and filmed the Thrawn Trilogy instead, but that's just me I guess. And who cares if they have to re-cast. It's the characters that we care about anyway, right?
    Last edited by DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR, May 19, 2013
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  5. Pro Scoundrel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 4
  6. Slash78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2004
    star 3
    We all don't like. I like, but since Dark Empire and the JA Trilogy there have been two camps in the post-RotJ EU. Those who loved the Thrawn series and those who loved Dark Empire/JA Trilogy. The latter along with those brought in during the PT moved on to the NJO.

    Personally I wouldn't like to have seen a rehash of the Thrawn Trilogy. After the PT it would need some revision. Maybe a mash-up with some of the Rogue Squadron plot elements as well as some things new.

    Anyway it's mute because the stories are by Lucas.
  7. Darth Eddie Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2013
    star 3
    Whenever I hear the arguments of prequel haters, I can't help but wonder if we even saw the same movie.

    I hear the same general criticisms levied against the PT time and again: the story was bad, the acting was lame, the special effects were overblown, the director was dispassionate (plus Jar Jar or flying R2 or dopey battle droids or midi-chlorians usually come into it). The funny thing about all of these criticisms is that you could also bring them to bear on the OT with equal validity (which has plenty hams of its own; i admit I think Jabba is totally lame).

    I don't want to villify King_Crimson at all, as I too am a KC fan, however I though it was interesting to bring this up. I don't believe this sentiment is insulting to anyone or anything, 'art itself' least of all. As far as I'm concerned, 'not getting it' on some level is ultimately/essentially the only reason to dislike any artwork, and it's the fact that is IS possible to apply this logic with any artwork which makes it universal.

    At the end of the day, everything you could dislike about a movie is the shadow of something which somebody else would totally love, and vice versa. I happen to think the story was fantastic, the acting practically perfect, the special effects continually innovative, and I know for a fact GL put every fiber of his being into those films. I don't just 'enjoy the PT for what it is', I absolutely love it! If other people don't appreciate the same qualities and turn out not to like the movie, and that's their perogative.

    EDIT: OH RIGHT this is an ST thread. weeeeeellllllll all I got to say is at least this time around, we know what to expect from a new batch of haters. Hell, maybe I'll end up being one of them. You never know.
    Last edited by Darth Eddie, May 19, 2013
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  8. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    If I had not left the site in 2004/if the Basher's Sanctuary had still been around at the time of ROTS, I would have joined it. I hated that damn movie. Still do.
  9. Evil--Yoda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 1
    I agree with you that there's a whole lot of unnecessary fashionable bashing of the prequels. Every element of them gets criticised even though they actually did many things very well.
    BUT... they had some serious problems and were not of the same standard as the originals. Although I think Episode 3 was better than Episode 6 and not too far behind 4.
  10. The Kulvax Sisters Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2013
    star 2
    Just going to state right here that the prequels, in my not at all professional opinion, are given far more hate than they deserve, they could definitely have been better, but they are not that bad.

    The Sequels however I have every faith in, especially if, as has been suggested, Chloe G. Moretz joins the cast and Abrams' writing crew stays well away.
    Evil--Yoda likes this.
  11. Avnar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2007
    star 2
    "Too closed minded to accept GL's version of Anakin" ???

    He was a horribly written character.
    He wasn't likeable at all.
    He was terribly acted by both Hayden and Jake.

    GL's "version" was a weird unit that was a creep. I never believed for a second that Padme would have fallen for him!
  12. The Kulvax Sisters Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2013
    star 2
    The idea was great, I mean imagine Kodi Smit McPhee as young Anakin, with no comic relief besides R2D2/C3P0 and Lucas not at the Director's helm, the PT just became a lot better with three ideas, unfortunately we don't have a TARDIS.
  13. Avnar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2007
    star 2
    I totally agree with your post on what the reaction will be like I must say... I am just hoping these films are good -then I will have 6 Star Wars films to watch and not just 3!

    I do like Caravan of Courage. It atleast feels like 1 of the original films... (Can't stand the other endor film though...Battle for Endor?) Ugggh
  14. Avnar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2007
    star 2
    Sorry mate I just woke up (night shift) and the brain is not functioning yet...what is a TARDIS?
  15. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    I'm optimistic for these movies to do well. Then again, I enjoyed each PT entry.
    JoshieHewls, Darth Chiznuk and eht13 like this.
  16. The Kulvax Sisters Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2013
    star 2
    A time machine from Doctor Who.

    But on-topic, I still believe that the Sequel Trilogy can be done very well, the first few announcements can either destroy this belief or reinforce it heavily, Abrams is walking a career-making or career-killing slope at the moment.
  17. Evil--Yoda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 1
    Yes although I usually defend many of the well done parts of the PT.... I agree that Anakin was one of the problem points that contributed the cirtical failure. He came across as a spoilt brat.

    Padme falling for such a spoilt brat when she was such an intelligent and morally convicted character was far from believable. Very poor directing, casting and acting (from Hayden.... Natalie Portman is a brilliant actor however, it's hard to do a great job with weak dialogue, directing and co-actors).
  18. Evil--Yoda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 1
    Out of curiosity, who's career did he kill?
  19. Avnar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2007
    star 2
    Oh okay... I've never seen Doctor Who.
  20. The Kulvax Sisters Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2013
    star 2
    I am saying he could make or break his own career depending on how he makes these movies.
  21. Evil--Yoda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 1
    Oh right.
    I don't think so though. He's already just about established himself as the new Spielberg type of go to guy in Hollywood.
  22. The Kulvax Sisters Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2013
    star 2
    But a failure the size of a flop Star Wars trilogy could kill his career stone dead, that's the type of risk you take making big name titles.
  23. Avnar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2007
    star 2
    He would just go make another Star Trek film I would imagine...
  24. Avnar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2007
    star 2
    I actually think JJ is pretty similar to George Lucas... In that way I mean that he's a great "ideas man"
    Last edited by Avnar, May 19, 2013
  25. King_Crimson Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2013
    star 1


    Wow, what a way to completely miss the point of my post. You guys are something else.
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