SWC The Strong Women of Star Wars (NY Times Article)

Bazinga'd everything seems normal then in the grand tradition of JC threads

anakinfansince1983 yup no worries, I don't think anybody was calling anyone out re-reading the posts, seems to be an issue within specific shipping threads, I assume in fanfiction.

 

Well tbf, I think people carelessly use the "political correctness" argument in every subject be it political or entertainment.

 

Oh yeah, I'm not calling anyone out. I don't think people here are doing that. (Also you all know I'm not that subtle!) And again, no one has to like one aspect of fandom, but then not participating isn't the problem. But I will say that no one sees the need to declare their hatred of action figures or legos the way they seem to for shipping or fanfic. And certainly no one who hates that sort of thing comes on to those threads and bashes loving it. Luckily, the fanfic section is separate so that's not a problem there.

As for the situation anakinfansince1983 is talking about, that's not the same one I was referring to, for the record. I totally understand the mod action in that case. (I was actually thinking about Anidala and Finnrey when I made my post.)

No they don't. They use it in specific ways and it's when there are casting announcements for women, GLBT, or people of color. It's also used when people discuss slash pairings. It's incredibly consistent and pretty dependable. Oh! And I think the other one I've seen lately is also "appealing to the Chinese market." That's a new one, but it's also used in specific ways.

But it's good to know that those arguments are reportable. I didn't know that.

I'm glad you did! But it's obviously going to be controversial, which is I think a good thing.

If this is a societal thing I guess my overall point is that it might be something the JCF thinks about in terms of who do we want to be as a community? Do we want to welcome the aspects of fandom that women are typically a part of? How do we foster those discussions as well? That's not just on the mods, it's on all of us. But maybe there are ways we can support that.

 

I believe this happens in pretty much in every large online platform for general discussions in hardcore fandoms. You are bound to encounter antagonist users who will likely offend you.
Of course, if you are talking about fanclub forums or niche places where everyone generally agrees with the focus of the topic, then yes, the general atmosphere of the discussion is different. But I think that has nothing with the gender of the users, and everything to do with if you like the discussion of the topic or not.

I will say this, I am glad this place is tightly modded even if sometimes I don't agree with mods' decisions. I used to be in the Naruto forums long time ago and my god, that place erupted into insane ****storms every week because of the infighting between fans of different pairings, and to less extent, Naruto vs Sasuke vs Itachi power-level or Plot no Jutsu bashing. BOTH female users and male users engaged in vicious, name-calling and derogatory arguments against each other because of their head-canon preferences.
My sister also experienced online vitriol and prejudice-filled, biased arguments when she visited K-Pop discussion forums and sites, where female users often dominated the discussion.

What I am saying is, I disagree that there is a night and day difference between male dominated vs female dominated discussions when it comes to discussion of topics among people with clashing opinions in big online forums. It is more a personality and ego issue. And as someone who knows what the shipping insanity caused to civilized discussion in the Naruto forums, I can totally understand why Reylo discussion was banned.

 

This is not about being offended or thinking that women-dominated forums are a conflict-free matriarchy, neither of which are things I even mildly alluded to. I'm not even sure where anyone would get that idea unless they were looking for it.

The criticism about the JCF not being women friendly is something that has been echoed here on the JCF. The idea of women-dominated fandoms being different than male ones is also true. I stand by those statements. There are conversations it's just difficult to have here so I have them elsewhere. But it doesn't have to be that way.

 

Then I apologize for misreading your post. I suppose I just don’t understand what you mean with “women-dominated fandoms being different than male ones” then.

 

Well, I'm constrained by the TOS I think to not point people to sites outside the JCF. But in The NY Times article they make mention of places that are dominated by female rather than male voices and how their conversations are different and the different ways they express themselves are different.

Oh and I just looked at the original article Bazinga'd posted! So sorry guy, you're right this thread (and I) got totally sidetracked!! That's an ok article. I obviously disagree with the Padme line. And why must every male author bring up Leia's slave outfit? But I do love all the new Ahsoka stuff and that R1 passed the Bechdel test in the trailer so that was a nice mention.

As a total aside, does anyone ever feel like "strong" is the "articulate" for women?

 

You can always PM me about those specific sites.

Because I still think you are trying to compare niche places that attract same-minded people with general discussion forums like this one that will always attract clashing egos and require stronger modding.

 

As one of the mods involved in "shutting down Reylo," I thought I'd pop in and explain our rationalization. It's pretty simple. Shipping took over the thread and kept the discussion away from the subject of the thread. While "offenses" were committed by "both sides," one side was more vocal in calling out dissenters/posters who wanted to discuss the actual thread subject with - usually, not always - condescension about how the non-shippers were too PC (the "oh, the horror of a female victim actually falling for her assaulter" - gee, folks, "you're too dense to get the attraction there between the two).

We tried to accommodate the Relyo'ers and suggested oftentimes they create a fan thread where they could oh and ah over the romance, the bridal carry, the soft lighting of Kylo's flowing mane of hair...and they resisted for weeks.

For the record, I am female and oftentimes participate in the Obi-Wan Kenobi appreciation thread, so I'm not opposed on principle to oh'ing and ah'ing over characters.

But when threads are sidetracked, kept off subject for pages, and differing viewpoints are too often shouted/shut down - the mods step in.

 

So I should PM you sites so you can confirm your bias? I'm not sure that's how you meant to come across, but it's how it looks to me. Maybe you should go to the sites and podcasts listed in The NY Times article? I've checked a few out and they seem cool.

And where did I say I didn't want modding again? I'm looking but I'm not finding it. I don't know why I have to explain that more than once.

Oh god, no need to explain that **** show. When I talk about shipping derailments, I'm not referring to Reylo, which needed to be dealt the final death. Going into Finnrey threads and insisting they can only be friends for "reasons" or Anidala threads and saying that it was an abusive relationship and how could anyone ship them is specifically what I mean.

And you're right there are great spaces for women here if you can find them I guess. How many women come here, go to the main boards (because that's where new users go first), try to express themselves and get shot down by a male-dominated fandom? I found areas I thought were sexist my first week, was trolled pretty quickly and found the ignore and report buttons. I'm also someone who doesn't back down, but if it's being called out in the Paper of Record, clearly that's not the case for more women.

It's not about the modding. It's about the community as a whole. So if the mirror the NYT is holding up isn't flattering, maybe we should think as a community how can we make this a more inclusive place?

 

Sepra
I suggested PM because you said you couldn’t link them here. So I don’t know if the sites you are talking about are the ones that I am thinking of, or others.
And I said modding because that is what I thought you were talking about having to discuss certain topics in other places. Sorry if I can’t always understand what you mean with your words. I never experienced sexism here, so I really don't know.

 

Well yes, it's not a rules violation to go into a thread about something you don't like or think is boring and discuss how you don't like it and think it's boring. One assumes it's common sense politeness not to bother, but that's not universal.

Something we've started to do with some success on the PT board with help from the mods is that we have (fun-sounding) guidelines for certain threads on the board. The PT Social thread has these guidelines and we do the same with the book club threads because the majority of posters wanted a place where they could get away from PT bashing and derailment. If we end up organizing movie watching threads, we've discussed the guidelines being added there too. This is something that could be extrapolated for threads about female characters, shipping threads and threads about fanfic outside the literature boards.

I also think perhaps some language in the rules about reporting being not a bad thing might help. Many posters don't report sexism because they feel like it's tattling or a bridge too far and they don't want to push back in case they get accused of mini modding. So they just leave and the problem isn't solved.

Something else that we used to do on my Buffy boards back in the day was if there was a newish person (less than 100 posts or whatever) going into threads and spouting off without having read anything before, it was a standard practice for someone to welcome them, direct them to the guidance around reading the last few pages of a thread before posting and then have them come back later. Something could be done like that with new posters on topics that are considered sexist, like Mary Sue rants.

Just thoughts off the top of my head...

 

I saw this and while I do like the idea of more strong female characters, I felt that the comment about shippers was a cheap shot. I am shipper, because I write romance fanfiction- mostly in the Tintin fandom where I am best known. I do not consider myself a rabid fangirl. Rabid pro-autism advocate yes, Star Wars- no.

 

There will always be those sexually frustrated 14 year old boys who are in an "awkward" state in their physical development.. and they turn to anonymous baiting/trolling rife with sexism and racism to try to vent those frustrations...

Its best to ignore these types until they grow up, mature and realize the error in their ways.. the ones that don't mature and grow out of it are the ones who are ill and should be avoided for the duration of their lives...

either way.. ignoring the post and moving on as soon as you see it for what it is.. trolling or baiting.. is the best way to disarm it....attention is fuel ... when a group pulls together to ignore a brat, they usually self moderate in order to re-join the group