ST The ST's Post-Structuralist View Of The Force

She was not caught in the explosion, as we see in not only this film, but in virtually all action movies that have missiles in them.

And people can survive in the Vacuum of space for a few minutes. Wouldn't be pleasant, but someone can survive in it.



This makes number 9, GDS.

 

I wouldn't say it did nothing...she did end up in a coma after all.

 

How much do we really know about the Force or the Jedi teachings?

If you look at any religion, in addition to the root texts, there are literally thousands of pages of wide ranging commentary from multiple sources over centuries.

I suspect that what Rey stored in the Falcon are only the very root texts, It would be like having the bible or Koran with zero lessons on what it really means from trained Rabbis Priests or Imam's. .

In the films and even the EU novels there is really very little information presented about a religion that has endured for thousands of years and much of it is merely a rephrasing of what we already know to put a scene in context.

So it almost seems a bit shortsighted to me to say that Force abilities first seen in the ST are somehow not in line with what we "know to be true"

While it is true that there should be some consistency in a film franchise I have seen nothing that is actually precluded by the OT or PT. Considering that we are discussing an all enveloping energy field created by trillions of living beings, to me it seems we have only just scratched the surface of the Force and the lore surrounding it and those who are sensitive to it.

 

The Force has remained the same as it has always been and how it binds everything together, etc. The number of Midichlorians in the blood may reveal the extent as to how much may be in one's system, but every living thing has it in them to a particular extent. The ST continues on this same thing, but introduces the concept of how "The Force" seeks to remain "in balance".

And its not a conflicting theme. Yes there was "The Chosen One" prophecy about the Chosen One bringing balance to the force, but only if Qui Gon knew what this meant when he discovered Anakin Skywalker, he would never have trained him; or insisted on Kenobi training him. Mis-read the prophecy certainly was. Because the "good" side already had "The Balance" in their favour. To balance things out under the "Chosen One" prophecy, virtually all of the good side had to die until the level of "The Force" on both sides were equal. Then things went to far the other way into the dark and "The Force" seeked to balance things out again. And now in the ST, it went back the other way with Luke training new students, etc.

Imagine an axis of some kind with a positive (good side) above the axis line and a negative (the bad side) below the axis line. The distance of this axis line represents an unspecified length of time in the Star Wars galaxy and over time, another line that represents "The Force" curves up and away from the main axis line into the "good side" and then curves downward and then below the main axis line as the dark side takes hold. The ideal for "The Force" is to be a straight line (not a curved line) that runs directly over the top of the main axis line, as this means that "The Force" remains perfectly in balance all of the time. Nothing is never evil (dark) and nothing is ever good (light). The Force just "is".

But that never happens because there will always be the light and the dark pulling that "Force" line in there respective directions. But "The Force" always seeks to remain in balance.

The Last Jedi is a very deep take on this concept.

 

I never considered 'balance' to be about equal numbers of light and dark users. To me, that is just plain ridiculous. It always made more sense when balance meant that a respectful use of the force was observed and it was used for defence and guidance (like by Jedi and people like Chirrut Imwe). The imbalance would occur when powerful dark siders corrupted and manipulated the force to harm others. Therefore, balance would mean the destruction of the Sith - as we saw in Return of the Jedi.

Up until The Last Jedi, I really liked how Disney Star Wars had been handling the Force. It became mystical again. But I reject the idea that Rey has inherent Force capabilities just because the Force 'needs someone to balance out Kylo Ren'.

 

Feel free to count my posts. I have thousands. Literally. it's highly irrelevant to me and I will continue to reiterate whatever points I so choose.

You clearly have your own standards of what the stretches credulity and that is your prerogative. I have mine and I am obviously expressing them. The scene is utterly ridiculous on numerous levels. Even if we presume that Leia somehow had the presence of mind to initiate a force bubble at the moment of explosion, preserve her life in space, and then fly back to the ship with some supernatural means of not needing oxygen for any of this, the way The scene was shot is still ludicrous and awful! #marypoppins

And what makes the whole thing a double down on being ridiculous is that despite this unprecedented display of force power, episode nine will somehow have to explain that Leia died off-camera! If you see this as quality storytelling I fully understand that. I just completely disagree.

 

Guys you are forgetting that in ESB Han and Leia went out of the Falcon when they were on the asteroid. Now, unless we want to assume that for some reason the stomach of the weird space worm was kept at atmospheric pressure and at a temperature of about 20 °C, there is the need to be a bit elastic with this stuff.

 

Again, she doesn't need to initiate anything. She was exposed for a few seconds. That does not kill you right away. How many times do you need to be told this?

As for "flying back to the ship with some supernatural means of not needing oxygen for any of this" it's easy to look up. Here, i'll do it for you. The issue, here, isn't your standards of credibility, its that those standards of credibility change based on whether you like a movie or not.

 

Not that I care particularly, but I'm afraid it's not convenient for you to use that argument: the time she spent in outer space would have been absolutely enough to kill a normal human being. The problem is not oxygen, it's mostly the very low pressure and temperature.

 

No, it wouldn't. Much more and she would have been dead. The most unrealistic part about the scene would have been that she regained consciousness, not that she didn't die instantly.

 

The temperature isn't an issue. There isn't any matter to transfer the heat to.

 

I didn't say instantly. She would have died in a couple of minutes, but she would have lost consciousness in few seconds.

You're right. On the other hand, the pressure should be an issue. I'm not a super expert but I think that when the pressure is so low the blood starts to boil at body temperature.

 

Still not immediately deadly. It'll do a lot of damage (like sending someone into a coma?), but she wasn't out there very long.

 

How is it a double down on being ridiculous that Carrie Fisher died in real life?

 

mmmmmm

 

Because it contradicts her becoming an Uber powerful Force user for the first time ever in TLJ. Now she'll die, how? Of a broken heart?

BTW- good to see you. I took a self-imposed hiatus but now that TLJ was such a train wreck I have no such reservations about episode and 9 or any other SW film going forward.

 

Why was she in a coma if the Force bubble protected her??

 

Well, personally I feel that Leia showing an instinctive use of the Force like that is perfectly in line with the rest of the saga. She wasn't at the back of the bridge where the missiles struck and killed Ackbar, and she would have died like the rest of those sucked out were it not for the force. Anyway, if that beat doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. But I don't then see why that means she can't die in another way - even if she was now the most powerful Force user, which she isn't - we've seen literally every single other immensely powerful force user die in all manner of ways, none of which had to do with a broken heart. The sad fact that this now has to happen offscreen (unless they recast and I can't see them doing that) can hardly he held against them if the character was always planned to play a much larger role in 9.

Yeah, come on, man. You can't have it both ways.

 

There was no force bubble. Being sucked into naked Vacuum did a lot of damage, thus the coma.

 

I've got a curiosity: does it work for you instead?
The reason why I'm asking is that after the third time I watched it, I'm kind of starting to more or less like the movie. But still, Leia Poppins is one of those things that really hasn't become more convincing by re-watching.

 

I really liked it personally. It is a bit out there, but I've always liked the mystical side of SW and I can buy that moment. Plus, I loved the music and the framing of it all, and while I get the "Poppins!" jokes, I never saw that she was flying but pulling herself towards the ship. I also love the foreshadowing of her slicing through the Supremacy hologram where Holdo later slices through it. I thought it was a lovely bit of film-making - though I can see why it jars with some.

 

I will say what I said earlier about this scene...

The use of the force and the survival do not feel out of place at all. That completely works for me.
The scene itself, on the other hand, feels really awkward and clunky.

So as a part of the story it works. As a piece of the cinematic experience it does not work.

 

Ha, I feel the opposite about it as a piece of cinema.

BTW, contrary to what some probably think, there are moments I would tweak if it was up to me. But that's not one of them.