The Stupidity of People Hiding in AGFFA

I've noticed in my time spent watching Star Wars how inept characters seem to be when they start hiding from each other. Amazingly they get away with it every time. Here's some examples I've noted:

ANH - Obi Wan when hiding from the Jedi purge decides to change his forename to Ben and yet inexplicably continues to use his surname. He also spends his time walking around in Jedi robes. Those who decide to hide Luke from Vader and the Emperor don't see the point in changing his surname and even go so far as to hide him on Vader's home planet, in a house Anakin has visited and with people he has met. Han avoids the bounty Jabba has put on his head by hanging around on the same planet as his employer.

ROTJ - The team on Endor who you might think would wish to remain hidden from the Imperial troops decide to take a two brightly coloured droids along for the ride. What possible use could they have on the mission and surely they must have slowed the group down.

TPM - Qui Gon wants to blend in to the surrounding on Tatooine so who does he decide to take with him? Jar Jar an obvious offworlder who isn't exactly inconspicuous, and R2D2. Now from Anakin's friend's reactions to R2, astrometric droids must be quite a novelty on Tatooine and therefore not really the choice companion for those wishing to blend in. What use Qui Gon thought Jar Jar and R2 would have we can only guess at.

AOTC - Again R2 come along for the ride, this time when Anakin and Padme are travelling to Naboo under the guise of refugees. How would refugees afford such a high-tech bit of kit as R2D2 and what use would they have for such a droid anyway? Again R2 serves no use and only makes the group more conspicuous.


Now I know the real reason for this stupidity. In the 1977 edition of ANH those weren't Jedi robes Obi-Wan was wearing, Luke wasn't hiding from Vader and there was no reason to believe Jabba lived on Tatooine. However, the rest are just sloppy ways for Lucas to get the two droids and with them cheap gags into the storyline. For me this just detracts from the believability of the characters and storyline. Wondered what the rest of you thought.

 

I thought you started out well, then devolved into bashing.

 

"ANH - Obi Wan when hiding from the Jedi purge decides to change his forename to Ben and yet inexplicably continues to use his surname. He also spends his time walking around in Jedi robes. Those who decide to hide Luke from Vader and the Emperor don't see the point in changing his surname and even go so far as to hide him on Vader's home planet, in a house Anakin has visited and with people he has met. Han avoids the bounty Jabba has put on his head by hanging around on the same planet as his employer."

What is your point? Jedi robes are similar to farmer robes. He is in the middle of the Judland wastes and no one ever found him. Furthermore Tatooine is the one place Vader would never look. Vader is a tormented individual. It is my opinion that he will never go back to Tatooine. It will remind him of his mother, Padme and his failure. Han is trying to get money to pay off Jabba.

"ROTJ - The team on Endor who you might think would wish to remain hidden from the Imperial troops decide to take a two brightly coloured droids along for the ride. What possible use could they have on the mission and surely they must have slowed the group down."

Actually as you saw they needed 3P0 to communicate with the ewoks. IF they had not brought goldenrod they would have lost the battle because the ewoks would have never defended them. As you also saw they needed R2 to open the door. The droid is very useful as you also see in the other films.

"TPM - Qui Gon wants to blend in to the surrounding on Tatooine so who does he decide to take with him? Jar Jar an obvious offworlder who isn't exactly inconspicuous, and R2D2. Now from Anakin's friend's reactions to R2, astrometric droids must be quite a novelty on Tatooine and therefore not really the choice companion for those wishing to blend in. What use Qui Gon thought Jar Jar and R2 would have we can only guess at."

If you look at ANH you will see that R2 droids were all over the streets of Mos Eisley. I don't think they are uncommon. Kitster's amazement over it came in the fact that a real astro droid was in a slave's quarters.

"AOTC - Again R2 come along for the ride, this time when Anakin and Padme are travelling to Naboo under the guise of refugees. How would refugees afford such a high-tech bit of kit as R2D2 and what use would they have for such a droid anyway? Again R2 serves no use and only makes the group more conspicuous."

R2 droids are very common in GFFA. Almost anyone can own them. It is not like they are waving around the fact that they are wealthy. On Tatooine it seems that R2 takes care of the ship while they are away. So he helps out when he can. He is just the personal droid of Padme. She decided to take him along. Just because you are a refugee does not mean you are poor. Padme and Anakin could be in the middle class or upper class. Anyone can be a refugee. Again it did not cause any trouble for them as we saw in the film.


I really don't know what your point is here. You are focusing on what ifs. Like saying Ben, QGJ, Anakin, Padme, Han, Leia and Luke are all stupid because they could have been caught. The fact is they were never caught so how stupid are they?

-Seldon

 

?What is your point? Jedi robes are similar to farmer robes. He is in the middle of the Judland wastes and no one ever found him. Furthermore Tatooine is the one place Vader would never look. Vader is a tormented individual. It is my opinion that he will never go back to Tatooine. It will remind him of his mother, Padme and his failure. Han is trying to get money to pay off Jabba.?

First of all let me tell you why they are so similar, or in actual fact the same. It?s because originally Obi Wan was supposed to be wearing a disguise, one of a moisture farmer just like Owen. The original Jedi garb designed you can see at this site http://www.padawansguide.com/jedi.shtml. However, due to ANH it was this disguise of Obi-Wan?s which viewers associated with the Jedi. That?s why when ROTJ comes around we get Anakin and Yoda dressed as moisture farmers too. All that aside if I was Obi-Wan hiding the fact that I was a Jedi, taking off my Jedi uniform would probably be the first thing I did. Would Vader go to Tatooine? Maybe not, but people in the witness protection program change their names for a reason. It just wouldn?t be worth the risk of Luke being caught not to change his name. Yeah Han is trying to get the money to pay off Jabba, but can?t he do it somewhere where Jabba is less likely to find him? It?s like The Mafia putting a price on your head so you head to Sicily to find some work.


?Actually as you saw they needed 3P0 to communicate with the ewoks. IF they had not brought goldenrod they would have lost the battle because the ewoks would have never defended them. As you also saw they needed R2 to open the door. The droid is very useful as you also see in the other films.?

Yes C3PO did end up being useful, but I don?t think the Ewoks were part of the Rebellion?s plans when they landed on Endor. If I was heading a group who have to sneak through woodland and launch a surprise attack on a shield generator, I think camouflage would be one of my top priorities, therefore a reflective, brightly coloured and slow protocal droid would not. As for R2D2, what there isn?t a single human technician in the rebellion who could open a locked door?


?If you look at ANH you will see that R2 droids were all over the streets of Mos Eisley. I don't think they are uncommon. Kitster's amazement over it came in the fact that a real astro droid was in a slave's quarters.?

Okay fair enough, but what motivated Qui-Gon to take him in the first place? And Jar Jar?


?R2 droids are very common in GFFA. Almost anyone can own them. It is not like they are waving around the fact that they are wealthy. On Tatooine it seems that R2 takes care of the ship while they are away. So he helps out when he can. He is just the personal droid of Padme. She decided to take him along. Just because you are a refugee does not mean you are poor. Padme and Anakin could be in the middle class or upper class. Anyone can be a refugee. Again it did not cause any trouble for them as we saw in the film.?

First of all I don?t agree that droids are very common in the GFFA. From what I?ve seen they?re only really used on spaceships. As for looking after the ship, what needs looking after? And they weren?t even supposed to be going to Tatooine. What did he do of any use on the way to Naboo or once they had arrived.


?I really don't know what your point is here. You are focusing on what ifs. Like saying Ben, QGJ, Anakin, Padme, Han, Leia and Luke are all stupid because they could have been caught. The fact is they were never caught so how stupid are they??

I?m not calling the characters stupid really, I?m calling Lucas stupid for thinking up such poor ways to get the droids into his stories. When you watched AOTC did you not think, 'Erm why is R2 going with Padme and Anakin?..oh yeah crappy plot device'. Well I did because his being there had absolutely no relevance to the story at all. The only reason R2 goes with Anakin and Padme is so that he can meet up with C3P0 on Tatooine, and then take part of the hilarity on Geonosis. I?d rather have them

 

"Okay fair enough, but what motivated Qui-Gon to take him in the first place? And Jar Jar?"

"My droid has the plans I need"
-QGJ

R2 was holding the plans for Watto to see.
That is why he went into Mos Espa. That is not poor planning at all. Jar Jar has a life debt and wants to keep QGJ company and help out in any way he can. There is no point in Jar Jar staying on the ship when his buddy was off in town.

Again with the Ben Kenobi thing, he was never caught so it does not matter. He was doing something right if he was never caught.

-Seldon

 

?R2 was holding the plans for Watto to see.
That is why he went into Mos Espa. That is not poor planning at all. Jar Jar has a life debt and wants to keep QGJ company and help out in any way he can. There is no point in Jar Jar staying on the ship when his buddy was off in town.?

Actually it's "My droid has a readout of what I need". Nothing so complex as plans and in the end all they want is the hyperdrive generator, no other parts are ever mentioned. Couldn?t Qui-Gon remember that? As for Jar Jar Qui-Gon has been told and seen with his own eyes how clumsy he is. If I was trying to stay incognito I wouldn?t want someone as brash as Jar Jar around. In fact it?s Jar Jar?s antics with that frog which get the group noticed by Sebulba.


?Again with the Ben Kenobi thing, he was never caught so it does not matter. He was doing something right if he was never caught.?

Oh yesterday I closed my eyes and walked across a busy street. I wasn?t knocked down but would it be clever of me to do it again? Just because Obi-Wan got away with something doesn?t mean it was the right thing to do.

 

How common is the name Kenobi in the GFFA?

 

Much of Watto and QGJ's talk was off screen. So we really don't know how much they needed R2. While they were talking about the parts, we were watching Anakin and Padme.

What could Jar Jar possibly do? They are hiding the fact that the Queen of Naboo is aboard. They are not escaping from local police or anything. Jar Jar is harmful.

Obi-Wan lasted 19 years in that desert, so I think he did okay. You cannot compare it to crossing a street because that only takes five seconds. If you spent 19 years crossing that street and were never hit then I would advise you to do it again.

-Seldon

 

I can't really decide where I stand in this debate. I think it comes down to whether it bothers you that a character is in a scene or sequence serving no particular purpose but is required to have been there for the sake of the plot. Haven't we all taken things with us that it turns out we don't need?

In terms of TPM, I think Qui-Gon doesn't want Padme 'sight-seeing' with him as he'd have to be responsible for her so tries to put her off. While he probably would prefer minimum attention, the geeza is a Jedi so can be assumed to be comfortable either way, so he entertains Jar Jar's life debt. As for R2, astromech droids are always useful - Owen Lars certainly seemed to think he'd be able to make use of one, so much so that when one malfunctions he still risks buying another - and he would be able to carry detailed technical data regarding the ship, part compatability etc.

An R2 unit's usefulness is proved time and again throughout the saga, enough so for it to be 'acceptable' that he accompanies Anakin and Padme in AOTC. I think to be picky about this rather than just accept it denotes someone who is looking for holes. But then again, perhaps I'm just someone trying to cover up holes...?

 

I did this for humours sake as much as anything and maybe I'm just a perfectionist. But to me the character's motivations are the most important aspect in a movie, if you lose those you lose my interest. Same with the second Matrix film when Neo is fighting all those Agent Smiths for about 15 minutes. All the way through that I was just thinking, 'why don't you just fly off'. And why wouldn't he? He does eventually but only after getting his butt kicked.

 

This is a funny topic, and so true! A lot of this stuff makes no sense at all.

Saying that C3PO was brought along because he was needed to translate when they met the Ewoks is like packing your shark repellent while going on a camping trip through the Gobi desert. It's such an incredibly remote possibility you would need this asset, yet you bring it anyway. I suppose the rebel commandos were also carrying the kitchen sink in one of their backpacks, as well.

I agree it makes no sense to have the droids along on the strike team mission except to give 'em something to do...

 

Pizza,

Well thought out and I'd just like to say I thought the exact same thing during the Agent Smith overkill.

I'd like to add 3PO's first space travel (AOTC): they all just up and leave, taking 3PO along for no reason, without telling the Lars.

And indeed... I've also always thought that to designate Obi-Wan's desert outfit as the standard Jedi robes - just for continuity's sake - was a bad move.

 

^ In the book of AOTC, Owen tells Anakin to take the droid.
I assume it is just a cut scene which was originally in the film.

-Seldon

 

Jar Jar has a life debt and wants to keep QGJ company and help out in any way he can. There is no point in Jar Jar staying on the ship when his buddy was off in town.

okay, but what practical use did jar jar serve? he dosent help the main characters, he just gets in the way and casues problems. why drag him around everywhere?

Again with the Ben Kenobi thing, he was never caught so it does not matter. He was doing something right if he was never caught.

he was using poor tactics and got lucky. a bit obvious in my opinion.

 

"okay, but what practical use did jar jar serve? he dosent help the main characters, he just gets in the way and casues problems. why drag him around everywhere?"

It's not really a question of practicality. Why did Quigon rescue Jar Jar in the first place? He's a Jedi and he does good things, like letting Jar Jar live and tag along to fulfill the life debt.
I think Darth-Seldon gave a pretty satisfactory answer to that question and the other questions.

I wondered about Lars giving them 3PO as well, but hey, Seldon got that one too. Unfortunately, a lot of things could be explained with deleted scenes.
Example: Why were Quigon and Anakin running as if their life depended on it before Maul attacked them on Tatooine? Well, the editors decided to cut the scene where Quigon discovers Maul's probe droid. Just bad judgement in my opinion.

 

I agree with you Pizza the hutt.

Also (going a bit off topic here , sorry )in Lord Of The Rings , why doesn't they just send the eagles flying to mount doom with the ring ? Or the eagles flying Frodo to mount doom with the ring ?
Badabing badaboom , game over sauron.
Tolkien should have come up with some explination for this since this is the number one thought that pops up in most peoples head when reading the books or watching the movies.

 

He's a Jedi and he does good things, like letting Jar Jar live and tag along to fulfill the life debt.

that still dosent give any reasons as to why qui gon didnt just leave him on the ship.

he saved his life besause he felt sorry for him. that dosent mean he has to drag him around everywhere just to remain a good person. besides, qui gon is more practical than that.

 

There was absolutely no practical reason to save Jar Jar. He made up the lame excuse that they needed him as a navigator, but they never used him. The Force was their navigator. It's a matter of Quigon's choices. I'm not saying I agree with him. If you think about it, Quigon unwittingly doomed the Jedi Order. He freed the little punk who would betray and murder them and he saved the moron that would push forth the motion to hand Palpatine the title of Emperor.

But I actually have a question that doesn't involve hiding, but continues the matter of inconsistencies. Watto said that no pod is worth two slaves, right? Obviously, a pod is worth one slave, because that's how Quigon got Anakin. So my question is, if they freed Anakin using the bet with Watto, why not use the money they made selling the pod, to buy Shmi? WTF?! Darth-Seldon, you seem to have a lot of answers. Do you know this one?

 

and there was no reason to believe Jabba lived on Tatooine.

The Jabba and Han scene, which has existed since 1977, indicates that Jabba is on Tatooine, and I don't think he'd travel to a different planet just to hassle one smuggler.

ROTJ - The team on Endor who you might think would wish to remain hidden from the Imperial troops decide to take a two brightly coloured droids along for the ride. What possible use could they have on the mission and surely they must have slowed the group down.

R2 is there to help get into the shield generator station. 3PO is there to translate for R2.

If you think about it, Quigon unwittingly doomed the Jedi Order. He freed the little punk who would betray and murder them and he saved the moron that would push forth the motion to hand Palpatine the title of Emperor.

I disagree. Even without Anakin, Palpatine would have succeeded in eliminating the Jedi anyway (after all, he was setting his whole plan in motion before he even knew Anakin existed), and it was only because Qui-Gon rescued Anakin that Luke existed and there was someone to kill Palpatine at the crucial point in ROTJ. As for Jar Jar, he's no dumber for trusting Palpatine than the rest of the Senate and the entire Jedi order. Had Jar Jar not been around, Palpatine would have just used someone else.

So my question is, if they freed Anakin using the bet with Watto, why not use the money they made selling the pod, to buy Shmi?

"I tried to free your mother, but Watto wouldn't have it."

 

" R2 is there to help get into the shield generator station. 3PO is there to translate for R2."

Wouldn't it be simpler just to take a human technician who could actually help in the fighting as well. Also I don't recall 3PO translatting between R2 and Han etc.

 

In the book of AOTC, Owen tells Anakin to take the droid. I assume it is just a cut scene which was originally in the film.

As it is, in the film they just depart right away and there is no opportunity to talk to Owen. They see the Obi-Wan message, sit down, and leave the planet.
What's in the book doesn't really matter - as by LFL's explanation, the films overrule anything else.

Ichi - good post bout LOTR!
Might I add the big Terminator flaw: A nuclear explosion releases an electromagnetic pulse in a wide circle around the radioactive area, which will shut down and erase any computer. Badabing-badaboom; game over skynet.

 

If you look at ANH you will see that R2 droids were all over the streets of Mos Eisley. I don't think they are uncommon. Kitster's amazement over it came in the fact that a real astro droid was in a slave's quarters.



Remember there is 30 years different between the 2 dates, 30 years ago it was rare to own a car, now some people own 2 or even 3.

 

Wouldn't it be simpler just to take a human technician who could actually help in the fighting as well.

Droids are basically little walking computers. Since time was of the essence, a machine that can crack a code or pick a lock much faster than a human (see how fast R2 can access the entire Cloud City computer system in ESB) would be better.

Also I don't recall 3PO translating between R2 and Han etc.

I said that was why he was brought down there, not that he was ever needed. If a situation had come up, however, where R2 needed to say something like "I just found the self-destruct codes, so we don't even need to enter the base" or "There's a squad of stormtroopers right behind this door" (those are just examples of critical info R2 might need to convey), then 3PO would be needed.

 

Here's what I think:

ANH - Obi Wan when hiding from the Jedi purge decides to change his forename to Ben and yet inexplicably continues to use his surname. He also spends his time walking around in Jedi robes. Those who decide to hide Luke from Vader and the Emperor don't see the point in changing his surname and even go so far as to hide him on Vader's home planet, in a house Anakin has visited and with people he has met. Han avoids the bounty Jabba has put on his head by hanging around on the same planet as his employer.

The first thing that comes to mind, when you see Ben for the first time is: "what a big Jawa". His robes were perfect for Tattoine.
About the surnames: Palpatine is too busy in galactic politics to search for them, and everybody that knows of Vader's past is probably dead. Besides Kenobi and Skywalker could be has common in GFFA as Smith is in here. And Vader would not return to Tatooine: he's got issues!
About why Han is in Tatooine: he was going to pay Jabba, and Jabba wasn't planning to kill him there and then - this is why Greedo didn't shoot to kill. The bounty on Solo might say ALIVE in the contract.

ROTJ - The team on Endor who you might think would wish to remain hidden from the Imperial troops decide to take a two brightly coloured droids along for the ride. What possible use could they have on the mission and surely they must have slowed the group down.

I bet the Rebels knew that they were going to meet Ewoks sooner or later - in preperation for the mission, they must have studied Endor - so C3PO would be handy.
R2 is the GFFA equivalent of a Swiss army knife. They also needed C3PO to translate R2ish.

TPM - Qui Gon wants to blend in to the surrounding on Tatooine so who does he decide to take with him? Jar Jar an obvious offworlder who isn't exactly inconspicuous, and R2D2. Now from Anakin's friend's reactions to R2, astrometric droids must be quite a novelty on Tatooine and therefore not really the choice companion for those wishing to blend in. What use Qui Gon thought Jar Jar and R2 would have we can only guess at.

Jar Jar has the life debt - he would follow Qui-Gon to the death. R2 units are a pretty common object; you don't need to have much money to aquire one.

AOTC - Again R2 come along for the ride, this time when Anakin and Padme are travelling to Naboo under the guise of refugees. How would refugees afford such a high-tech bit of kit as R2D2 and what use would they have for such a droid anyway? Again R2 serves no use and only makes the group more conspicuous.

See above.

 

Thanks, Lord_Hydronium. As much as I memorize those movies, I forgot to think about Quigon saying Watto wouldn't have it. Probably because I just always assumed he was referring to the dice game and how Watto would only allow him to bet on one of them.

As for Quigon dooming the galaxy, you're right about that one too. I can't believe I had so little faith in Palpatine. I have to track down Ian McDiarmid and apologize to him personally - preferably at 3 a.m. during a rainstorm ... stalkers just go to minimum security prisons, right?