The Stupidity of People Hiding in AGFFA

C-3P0 needed to speak with Ewoks/ No one to say he can't come

I got a simple fix for this. In the EU, the Falcon & most other spacecraft in the GFFA have sentient life form reading sensors, the Rebels knew that something with brains was on the moon, so they brought C-3P0 to talk to them if they should run into them on the way to the Empire's bunker.

The other fix is that C-3P0 belonged to a princess, if she wanted to bring the stupid shiny thing along, no one was going to tell her she can't, cause I'd be off with their heads or something.

 

?The first thing that comes to mind, when you see Ben for the first time is: "what a big Jawa". His robes were perfect for Tattoine.?

Why not just wear any old robes then instead of Jedi garb? It?s like Sadaam Hussien hiding in his little bunker wearing an officer?s uniform.


?About the surnames: Palpatine is too busy in galactic politics to search for them, and everybody that knows of Vader's past is probably dead. Besides Kenobi and Skywalker could be has common in GFFA as Smith is in here. And Vader would not return to Tatooine: he's got issues!?

Well we don?t meet anyone else called Kenobi or Skywalker so that is just pure guess work. Plus as soon as Luke hears the name Obi-Wan Kenobi he immediately thinks of Ben so the surename can?t be that common. If the Emperor was ever to conduct a census which empires have a tendancy of doing, the empire would learn of a young man named Skywalker living with a couple named Lars. However unlikely it is this would get to the emperor surely it?s not worth the risk?


?About why Han is in Tatooine: he was going to pay Jabba, and Jabba wasn't planning to kill him there and then - this is why Greedo didn't shoot to kill. The bounty on Solo might say ALIVE in the contract.?

So when Greedo says he?s been waiting a long time for this, he means he?s been waiting for the moment to shoot slightly to the right of Han? Lucas didn?t change that scene to make it look as though Greedo aimed to miss, but to make Han look more noble.


?I bet the Rebels knew that they were going to meet Ewoks sooner or later - in preperation for the mission, they must have studied Endor - so C3PO would be handy.
R2 is the GFFA equivalent of a Swiss army knife. They also needed C3PO to translate R2ish.?

Every door on Endor is opened without R2s help. The rest of the doors on Endor the rebels open themselves. Why can?t the rebels take a screen like we see in the X-wings for R2s translation? I find it hard to believe that every R2 unit has to have a protocol droid nearby if it wants to speak with a human.


?Jar Jar has the life debt - he would follow Qui-Gon to the death. R2 units are a pretty common object; you don't need to have much money to aquire one.?

The question I asked wasn?t why Jar Jar wanted to come along by why Qui-Gon allowed him to do so. So far I haven?t got a real answer from anyone for that. I?ve already said that I don?t agree that R2 units are common. How much exactly do they cost seeing as you?re so sure they?re cheap as chips.


"I tried to free your mother, but Watto wouldn't have it."

Qui-Gon is talking about the bet with Watto there, and Watto refusing to bet the podracer against two slaves.

 

The Really Short Phantom Menace:

Amidala and the Jedi land on Tatooine, sell their Nubian starship and mind-trick a pilot into taking them to Coruscant.

 

Why not just wear any old robes then instead of Jedi garb? It?s like Sadaam Hussien hiding in his little bunker wearing an officer?s uniform.

Obi-Wan lives in an almost lawless planet, isolated in the middle of the desert, and few people know or remember the Jedi. There was no danger in using his Jedi gear.

Well we don?t meet anyone else called Kenobi or Skywalker so that is just pure guess work. Plus as soon as Luke hears the name Obi-Wan Kenobi he immediately thinks of Ben so the surename can?t be that common. If the Emperor was ever to conduct a census which empires have a tendancy of doing, the empire would learn of a young man named Skywalker living with a couple named Lars. However unlikely it is this would get to the emperor surely it?s not worth the risk?

They are on Tatooine - a lawless planet controled, even during the Empire, by the Hutts. The Hutts dominate Tatooine, although they know who the top dog in the galaxy is. Conducting a census in Tatooine would reveal A LOT about almost everyone in that place. The Hutts would never agree to it and Palpatine just can't be bothered with such a thing when he has a resistance force wrecking havoc in other parts of the galaxy.

So when Greedo says he?s been waiting a long time for this, he means he?s been waiting for the moment to shoot slightly to the right of Han? Lucas didn?t change that scene to make it look as though Greedo aimed to miss, but to make Han look more noble.

Greedo said that he had "waited a long time for this", meant that he had spent a long time looking for Han and he finally found him. I agree that Greedo shooting first was bad, but then we see Han talking to Jabba. If Lucas didn't insert that second scene, then things would be weird. Greedo aimed to miss - how can you not miss at that distance?

Every door on Endor is opened without R2s help. The rest of the doors on Endor the rebels open themselves. Why can?t the rebels take a screen like we see in the X-wings for R2s translation? I find it hard to believe that every R2 unit has to have a protocol droid nearby if it wants to speak with a human.

Astromech droids are made for ships. I bet that the Rebel Alliance has to make ends meet, so they bring along R2 just in case. Remember, R2 just didn't open the bunker doors because he was shot by an imperial stormtrooper. C-3PO was there to help with R2 and to be used as a translator when (and if) they found Ewoks. If the rebel team in Endor had to be really stealthy, they would deactivate 3PO and one or two troopers would carry him (they had enough men to spare one or two soldiers).

The question I asked wasn?t why Jar Jar wanted to come along by why Qui-Gon allowed him to do so

Jar Jar would follow Qui-Gon to the end of the world, wether Qui-Gon wanted it or not. Qui-Gon realised it in Naboo when Jar Jar kept following him.

 

"Jar Jar would follow Qui-Gon to the end of the world, wether Qui-Gon wanted it or not. Qui-Gon realised it in Naboo when Jar Jar kept following him."

Well that's obviously not the case as Jar Jar was nowhere to be seen when Amidala's team and the Jedi stormed the palace at the end of TPM.


"The Hutts would never agree to it and Palpatine just can't be bothered with such a thing when he has a resistance force wrecking havoc in other parts of the galaxy."

Since when has Palpatine been taking orders from the Hutts. He could easily crush them if he was so inclined. And surely a census would be a good way to help combat the rebellion if the Empire has records of everybodies whereabouts?

 

In the Phantom Menace Novel, Obi-Wan comments to Jar Jar (after he begs Obi-Wan to stay on the ship) along the lines that Qui-Gon would fit in more at an intergalatic space port with an intergalatic being, in this case, Jar Jar.

 

That seems more like an explanation thought up afterwards rather than the real reason why Lucas put Jar Jar in. The more weirdo?s Qui-Gon has with him the less he?ll stand out? I think one man on his own would be the least conspicuous surely?

 

Since when has Palpatine been taking orders from the Hutts. He could easily crush them if he was so inclined. And surely a census would be a good way to help combat the rebellion if the Empire has records of everybodies whereabouts?

Yes, he could. But I bet he also uses the Hutts for some dirty work or has informers on the Rebellion and such. The Hutts are more valuable to Palpatine in their position than detroyed. The census would be a bad idea in Tatooine, just there.

Well that's obviously not the case as Jar Jar was nowhere to be seen when Amidala's team and the Jedi stormed the palace at the end of TPM.

By that time he was a General and he might have cleared his debt to Qui-Gon.

 

"By that time he was a General and he might have cleared his debt to Qui-Gon."

What by following him around for a bit and making a nuisance of himself? Not much of a life debt all things considered.

 

What by following him around for a bit and making a nuisance of himself? Not much of a life debt all things considered.

He decides to follow Qui-Gon into the dangerous place that Mos Eisly is. Padme could take care of herself, because she was military trained. But Jar Jar ventures completly unprepared and into a climate that is the opposite of his own ("This sun is doing murder to mese skin"). That's brave enough of him. You can see how he's scared when he say's "Those people out here- carazy. We's going to robbed and shot" - he isn't far from truth. But he never leaves them. He did his best.

 

Trying to understand and rationalize the schematics of fantasy films is a fruitless venture and the only thing that really matters are the virtues if its characters and scenarios: Heroism, cowardice, love, honor, treachery and betrayals. Even in films of a more realistic nature it is unwise to enjoy the ride and then look back and say " I changed my mind and now I think this film is stupid ". If people only did smart things in the movies, then movies would be pretty boring. Take Jaws for instance, which was first accoladed as an exceptional horror film, turned out also to be an essay on the plotting and reasoning of a films story in relation to a human beings psyche and attempting to keep the characters of that film as true to real life people as possible. When you step back and try to watch the film with that rolling around in your brain you realize first: A. They should have gotten a bigger boat B. The real villians of the story are the towns citizens and its mayor and not the shark at all. My point is that really good action films rely on some of its characters to make mistakes and act stupid and in a FANTASY FILM all bets are off as to the rationale of its characters.

 

"I changed my mind and now I think this film is stupid"

I hope you're not referring to me in that statement because I never said anything of the sort.

As for the rest of your post I don't feel that it is true at all. I didn't go through these films with a fine tooth comb in order to purposefully pick out moments of character stupidity, I mereley noticed them offhand. You say that "If people only did smart things in the movies, then movies would be pretty boring." Now you seem to have got the wrong end of the stick in the point of this thread. I understand that in films some characters are stupid. I'd say Carlo in The Godfather is stupid but I understand his motives, and I certainly wouldn't call The Godfather a boring film. My point is that people who throughout the SW films we are supposed to regard as intelligent such as Padme, Anakin, Obi-Wan, etc, have done things which defy common sense. The only reason for this is plot revision in the case of Obi-Wan, and to get the droids on screen in the PT. I noticed these things in a few viewings each, surely Lucas who has spent a lot of time (we hope) on these scripts could have picked them up to and included more plausible reasons for the droids to be involved. I can think of a few off the top of my head now.

 

I wasnt referring to you, if I was Id quote you. And you totally misread me - i said if people didnt do stupid things, not that a certain person has to be stupid. And Carlo isnt a stupid character, he's just not as smart as Michael. Him being exposed at the end of the film is meant to show you how much more intelligent and cunning Michael is than anyone else in the story.

 

I didn't misread you, I obviously just didn't articulate myself very well.

First off, I have to disagree with you about Carlo. Beating up a mob bosses daughter, especially when her brother has a temper like Sonny's is pretty stupid, as is going against the Corleones at all. It was these acts I meant were stupid, not the fact that he was found out. But that's kind of getting off subject. My point is that in some films, acts of stupidity can be understood but in the examples I mentioned in my first post I don't think they can, because they go against character traits and general common sense.

 

Who ever said that intelligent people dont do stupid things? It happens all the time - look at some of our elected officials for the love of Pete. And Carlo beating up Connie is exactly why the hot-headed Sonny gets killed - which further strengthens my argument of smart people doing dumb things. Sonnys' weakness is his anger, which clouds his thinking ( sound familiar? ) and leads him to his death.

 

As much as I love The Godfather, lets try to move discussion back in the realm of Star Wars.

 

Someone mentioned the silly reason of bringing Threepio along to translate Ewoks. The worst example of that kind of movie coincidence is in James Bond: For Your Eyes Only. Bond and the girl are scuba diving, and while that happens, the girl points at the ocean floor and leaves her oxygen tank there. The only explanation for that is because she knew how the movie was going to end because they needed it to breathe while they were being dragged around by a boat later.
Stuff like that bugs me.

 

Someone mentioned the silly reason of bringing Threepio along to translate Ewoks

It's not silly. Read my posts above.

 

Regarding Obi-Wan on Tatooine:

1) Theres no evidence he wore his Jedi robes everyday and everywhere he went. We saw him wearing them 20 years on from Episode 3, I'm sure the interest in the Jedi, and knowledge of them, had died down somewhat by then. I'd bet immediatly after Episode 3 and for a few years he tried to make sure he didn't stand out as a Jedi (and who is to say everyone on Tatooine knows what a Jedi looks like?)

2) Theres also nothing to suggest he told everyone his surename, we just know Owen, Beru and Luke knew it. Perhaps Obi-Wan and Luke had met on a few occasions prior to ANH and Luke learned it then, but I doubt its something he'd go bragging to everyone

3) Hiding Luke with Owen and Beru: now I don't know any Episode 3 spoilers so this is pure speculation, but I doubt there will be any reason for Vader to think Owen and Beru are housing a child of his, and theres no reason he'd order them killed, so why would he go there? He wouldn't, so putting Luke there is as good an option as any for him to have a good upbringing.

 

In regards to Obi wan wearing his robes on Tatooine, people in deserts wear loose clothing for protection from sand and to cool themselves. Also Uncle Owen is wearing a similar robe w/a hood on it. Is he a Jedi? No. Onboard the Tantitive IV Leia is wearing a dress w/a hood. The hood is similar in appearance to Obi wan's. Is she a Jedi? No.

Just because someone in the GFFA is wearing a robe w/a hood does not mean he is a Jedi. It just appears to be a style in the GFFA.

 

Theres no evidence he wore his Jedi robes everyday and everywhere he went.

Then why wear them at all?


We saw him wearing them 20 years on from Episode 3, I'm sure the interest in the Jedi, and knowledge of them, had died down somewhat by then. I'd bet immediatly after Episode 3 and for a few years he tried to make sure he didn't stand out as a Jedi (and who is to say everyone on Tatooine knows what a Jedi looks like?)

Chances are that not everyone on Tatooine knew about the Jedi garb, but what if one person sees him and notifies a storm trooper. It?s just not worth the chance surely?


Theres also nothing to suggest he told everyone his surename, we just know Owen, Beru and Luke knew it. Perhaps Obi-Wan and Luke had met on a few occasions prior to ANH and Luke learned it then, but I doubt its something he'd go bragging to everyone.

Well if Luke had been told to keep his real surname secret, wouldn?t he start asking questions about why he needed to? After all he believed his father to be a simple freighter pilot.


Hiding Luke with Owen and Beru: now I don't know any Episode 3 spoilers so this is pure speculation, but I doubt there will be any reason for Vader to think Owen and Beru are housing a child of his, and theres no reason he'd order them killed, so why would he go there? He wouldn't, so putting Luke there is as good an option as any for him to have a good upbringing.


Well if Owen and Beru are aware of Luke?s importance, surely they?d think of moving house. Somewhere where Anakin hadn?t visited at least. Personally I?d move to a different planet.


In regards to Obi wan wearing his robes on Tatooine, people in deserts wear loose clothing for protection from sand and to cool themselves. Also Uncle Owen is wearing a similar robe w/a hood on it. Is he a Jedi? No. Onboard the Tantitive IV Leia is wearing a dress w/a hood. The hood is similar in appearance to Obi wan's. Is she a Jedi? No. Just because someone in the GFFA is wearing a robe w/a hood does not mean he is a Jedi. It just appears to be a style in the GFFA.

I?ve already explained why Owen is wearing the Jedi uniform, but I really don?t think you can compare what they are wearing to Leia?s clothes.

 

Then why wear them at all?

Do you think Obi-Wan just happened to be walking by when he came across Luke being attacked by Tuskens? I don't think its that convenient, he had probably sensed something or foreseen it and was specifically going to help Luke, so wore his robes because he was going to be doing Jedi like things, and because the robes helped him scare away the Tuskens.

Chances are that not everyone on Tatooine knew about the Jedi garb, but what if one person sees him and notifies a storm trooper. It?s just not worth the chance surely?

Again I don't think Obi-Wan would have worn his robes everywhere and not in public places where outlanders and bounty hunters may reside, we see him wearing them at Mos Eisley in ANH because he is taking up the Jedi mantle again to go to Alderaan and help Bail. You're assuming he wore the robes everywhere he went after Episode 3.

Well if Luke had been told to keep his real surname secret, wouldn?t he start asking questions about why he needed to? After all he believed his father to be a simple freighter pilot.

I never said Luke would have been told to keep Kenobi's surename a secret, quite clearly he hasn't because he tells it to 3PO. I said its just something he wouldn't go around telling everyone, he doesn't know Obi-Wan is a hero of the Clone Wars or a famous Jedi, hes just a strange old hermit to Luke. Is Luke likely to go to places like Mos Eisley or Mos Espa telling people a Ben Kenobi lives out in the desert? I doubt it. We also don't know how common a surename Kenobi is, the galaxy is a big place and I'm sure there are more than one Mr Kenobi out there.

Well if Owen and Beru are aware of Luke?s importance, surely they?d think of moving house. Somewhere where Anakin hadn?t visited at least. Personally I?d move to a different planet.

Are they aware of Luke's importance? Owen seems set that Luke is staying on Tatooine and not following his father's footsteps or joining the Rebellion. But again, why would the Empire want to hunt down Owen and Beru? They are nobodies in the middle of a nothing planet.

 

(no message)

Posted reply in wrong thread, sorry.

 

Do you think Obi-Wan just happened to be walking by when he came across Luke being attacked by Tuskens? I don't think its that convenient, he had probably sensed something or foreseen it and was specifically going to help Luke, so wore his robes because he was going to be doing Jedi like things, and because the robes helped him scare away the Tuskens.

Obi-wan isn?t Batman. It?d be a bit odd if he sensed Luke was in trouble and felt he needed to change his clothes when he should have been rushing to help him. I think it?s pretty much the consensus that it was the roar Obi-wan made which scared the Tuskens and not his robes. Otherwise the Tuskens be afraid of Owen too which seems unlikely having seen AOTC.

Again I don't think Obi-Wan would have worn his robes everywhere and not in public places where outlanders and bounty hunters may reside, we see him wearing them at Mos Eisley in ANH because he is taking up the Jedi mantle again to go to Alderaan and help Bail. You're assuming he wore the robes everywhere he went after Episode 3.

Every scene we see Kenobi in he?s wearing Jedi clothing, what else am I supposed to deduce? If he?d got changed before going to Mos Eisley and then back again on the MF I would agree.


I never said Luke would have been told to keep Kenobi's surename a secret, quite clearly he hasn't because he tells it to 3PO. I said its just something he wouldn't go around telling everyone, he doesn't know Obi-Wan is a hero of the Clone Wars or a famous Jedi, hes just a strange old hermit to Luke. Is Luke likely to go to places like Mos Eisley or Mos Espa telling people a Ben Kenobi lives out in the desert? I doubt it. We also don't know how common a surename Kenobi is, the galaxy is a big place and I'm sure there are more than one Mr Kenobi out there.

I was actually talking about Luke?s surname not Obi-wan?s.


Are they aware of Luke's importance? Owen seems set that Luke is staying on Tatooine and not following his father's footsteps or joining the Rebellion. But again, why would the Empire want to hunt down Owen and Beru? They are nobodies in the middle of a nothing planet.

If as Obi-Wan says it was decided to hide Luke because the Emperor knew any offspring of Anakin could be a threat, it would be wise to tell Owen and Beru so that they could be extra vigilant of any Imperial activity around.

 

I?ve already explained why Owen is wearing the Jedi uniform, but I really don?t think you can compare what they are wearing to Leia?s clothes.

Why can't I compare that to Leia's clothes? I demonstrates that the hood appears to be a fashion of the GFFA during this time period. Come to think of it, that Prune Face character in ROTJ had a hood too. He's no Jedi.