TV Discussion The Supernatural Force (The Ones, Priestesses, Magiks etc.)

That scene still has to be one of my favorites from TFA.

 

I do have a bit of trepidation about the whole Bendu thing here--I never honestly liked the concept of Grey Jedi as presented that much, it felt too much like those old RPG OCs that had Jedi who could use the dark side because they were, like, just so cool, and shut up they can. It detracts from the whole implication you got in the films that ultimately, the dark side is going to consume you once you set down it. If the Grey thing here is just a matter of moral philosophy, I'm fine with that, but I wouldn't like it if they just had him use 'all the force powahs just cause he's awesome'.

I'm also somewhat conflicted on the Force duality thing that seems to be being played up in the Disney stuff so far, but that's another thing.

 

I keep getting mixed signals about the Force from everyone involved at LFL both former & current.

It seems to fall in 2 categories.

A. Light is good. Dark is bad. The dark side must be destroyed.

B. All sides of the Force must coexist & be balanced.

 

Yeah, I never really got that "balance" stuff either. I think the creators of Star Wars media likely have differing opinions on what it means. Which is kinda ok with me I guess. Reflects reality a bit more I guess, though it certainly is a bit discordant with the "fairy tale in space" moral certainty of the OT. Characters that are "gray" but really just good guys kinda annoy me. No Starkiller, you shouldn't get to use force lightning and still get to be a good guy. That completely undercuts the point of the Dark Side-it gives you power but ultimately controls you rather than the other way around. Hopefully the Bendu will eventually show his ambiguous side as well cause yeah, as of the pilot he's essentially just a new Yoda who says he's "in the middle." Hopefully there's a plot with that Holocron that will give that phrase some actual meaning.

 

I think that philosophy also evolved in George's mind over the time and he didn't really explain that balance of the Force thing clearly in any movies. I think that B is more close to the interpretation of things like Mortis- trilogy and Yoda's travels in season 5.

But such interpretation needs not to conflict with A if sith/dark side users are those to be destroyed- not the dark side itself that would be obliterated. (it seems to be impossible even in theory since it is part of the Force and neither of it's sides cannot exist alone anyway)

The dark side would then need to exist passively (it is there- passion, anger, fear but you don't let it flow freely) rather than actively because it is by nature easily flowing and therefore easily aiming towards imbalance while light side needs to be actively pursued to keep the balance since it has no such self-preserving instinct and naturally aims to give up one's power to others while dark side is ultimately is willing to destroy everything for it's own selfish desire. Light side however seems to be almost self-destructive in it's willingness to sacrifice itself for others, so continued existence of any rational beings in harmony would require both sides existing and light side being practiced and pursued as much as possible.

Don't know if that made any sense.... though but that's my interpretation of SW-philosophy

 

Wasn't the Yoda arc supposed to have a scene where the Priestesses discuss the Father, where they would say that his views were incorrect, but it was cut ?

Mark my words we're gonna have religious wars on this site about which Force interpretation is the correct one., The Bendu vs Jedi vs Sith

 

Don't know about that. I don't even think they should establish canonically "correct" views of the Force but leave it ambiguous. Telling more about Bendu or "grey jedi" would be interesting though.

 

I say bring em back.

 

The Bendu was interesting edition to the ever growing different Force beings in the galaxy. Tom Baker gave a flair of mysticism, playfulness and authority to the character that I thought worked well. He can be compared to Yoda in Empire Strikes Back and I guess that's not unwarranted. His curiosity and the way he laughs at Kanan's ways feel Yoda like but also the way he's somewhat dismissive at first of Kanan the way Yoda was of Luke. Being in the middle and having control over the balance of light and dark the way Kanan doesn't understand what he's teaching him the Bendu exhibits a little bit of haughtiness the idea of "Much to learn you still have." His way of how he believes the Force is different to Yoda's teachings and is probably while more in line with other Force beings we've encountered they still might be different (Now I kind of want a White Council sort of the various Force Beings throughout the Galaxy communicating with one another and hearing their beliefs in the Force against one another). He teaches Kanan to be more in tune with his mind and those that he touches and feels and only then can he see again very much in the way Daredevil was taught by Stick sort of but he had heightened senses from chemicals where as Kanan is a Jedi and his Force power needs to be in balance instead of one way or the other. That's to me what we see in the fight in Force Awakens between Rey and Kylo Ren that two Force powers of Light and Dark overtake the person and they become powerful but unstable because they haven't been taught how to hone them.

Many want Revan to come back into canon and because of how his character was I could maybe see that happening (and his popularity is probably just as much as Thrawn so if they are looking for the next legends character to bring into canon it would probably be him) because of how his views fall in line with the various Force beings we've encountered. Someone who fell between light and dark and eventually came to master both. Well until TOR when he separated into two beings and had to reestablish his connection and combine his two halves into one again but that's another story. If Revan were to return to canon where do you guys think he'd be? Again I think he'd be the same to a degree but anything that might have clashed with canon could change but it wouldn't be hard to bring him back in with the ideas they are introducing.

 

Even in legends , The Power of the Jedi Sourcebook stated that the Potentium was a corrupt, misguided philosophy. The Bendu character appears to be canons version of that EU philosophy.

 

It's going to be interesting to see where the Bendu takes the storyline and the mythos, but, personally, I prefer the ESB Force and how Yoda presents it. It seemed like a "balanced" Force, both scientific and spiritual with our going to the extremes of either.

Midichlorians, themselves, seem too scientific, but then in the next breathe they are, ironically, linked to a much more spiritual side of the Force that is personified, almost deified, as having a "will" of its own.

The ESB Force of Yoda has a lesser, but still present, scientific aspect as life creates it and it surrounds and binds all living things. On the spiritual side, it is impersonal, but those who wield it (who have the faith/belief to do so; not the right blood type, so to speak) are responsible for how they use it -- for good or evil. (I suppose you could further spiritualize the Force and complicate things if you begin to ask what "life" truly is: Is it simply scientific? Is it spiritual? Both?)

The light side and the dark side were always there, but it seems like the Bendu and Mortis really make that so much more overt, and again personified. Like I said, it will be fun to see how the story plays out, because the story is supposed to be fun, and for play, but it's not the Force as I envision it.

I think the current mythology is driving towards a very overt representation of the good/evil light/dark even beyond the Jedi and Sith struggle we've seen thus far (whilst ignoring the Episode 1 take on things). With that in mind, my prediction is that Maz and Snoke are sister and brother of a sort. Both know the Force, but neither are Jedi or Sith. In fact, I think they will be revealed to be the physical personifications of the light side and the dark side. (disclaimer: this may not be a new theory, but I haven't researched that or not 'cuz I'm way to busy)

Anyway, just my two cents. Hopefully they make sense.

 

People many times forget that first time the Force is described in SW is by Obi-Wan who uses IMO very scientific term of energy field created by all living things. Surely it is mystic energy field and I would like to keep it that way. Midi-chlorians are not the source of the Force itself but explanation how Force affects different persons and lifeforms bit differently- stronger to others but still all living cells are affected by it and energy it creates also affects non-organic matter.
Personally I think that explaining the Force any more is not something that should be done too thoroughly. It is something that needs to remain ambiguous and open for different interpretations or it loses the mystic aspects and becomes boring concept forcing fans to accept some dogma or they are "heretics" (which would be very dumb since this whole thing is fiction anyways...)
If there is space for several different interpretations it is far more interesting really.

 

I agree. It's a lot more interesting just to leave things well enough alone (within the story) and let fans have fun speculating on our own. Regardless, I'll still enjoy Star Wars either way, since, as you said, "this whole thing is fiction anyway."

 

Looks about the size of a Rancor and similar body.

 

I'm wondering what the Bendu has to do with the sith holocron.

 

That's an interesting question. On the one hand, the Bendu seemed like he considered himself better than Jedi and Sith; on the other he seems tickled by this new "gift." It would be amazingly awkward if Kanan and Ezra have to go together to reclaim the holocron from the Bendu. Explaining how it's no longer a gift... it never really was... Kanan just (so maturely) was hiding it from Ezra... and, when they get it back, they intend to deliver it to a decidedly evil person who intends to use it do more evil things. It'd be a great scene. Considering the delightful way the Bendu kicks Kanan's butt at, well, thinking.

 

The trivia bit about a draft where Chopper Base is built upon the back of the Bendu reminds me of Native American myths (and I guess other mythologies as well) where the world is carried on the back of a turtle. Kinda illustrative of his relation to other characters. I think the "In the Middle" part of him will be the fact that he might be "beyond" the concerns of dark and light that tiny and possibly relatively younger beings like Jedi or Sith care about. Kinda a Dr. Manhattan thing where its just Red vs Black ants. But then again, he does seem to acknowledge the existence of good and evil in his conversation with Kanan. Though, maybe he doesn't view the dark as necessarily evil? Do dark siders actually embrace the term evil? Like, do they view it as a conflation to say dark side and evil side are the same thing?

 

I binged The Sandman comics this year, as well as American Gods. Maybe The Ones are just anthropomorphic personifications of the various aspects of The Force instead of actual individuals, like The Endless.

In retrospect I'd say theres definitely a Sandman influence in the Mortis arc, with Mortis itself sort of being the SW version of The Dreaming, and a dysfunctional family of squabbling gods who each represent different fundamentals of life.

 

Its interesting that you mention the mythological turtle, because as I watched the Bendu, I couldn't help but think about Morla the turtle from The Neverending Story. Both broke free from their landscape because someone was on a quest for knowledge. Both seemed be somewhat indifferent to the outside world, and revealed only bits and pieces, leading each to continue their own journey.

 

I will admit this, while I loved both the Mortis Arc and the Yoda Arc, I think that instead of giving us answers they give us even more questions.

 

I'm the total opposite. The Force which was once so simple is now convoluted.

 

Spoilers for (as of writing) unaired Visions and Voices

Spoiler

So the nightsisters are capable of living as ghosts. So opinions...does this diminish the Qui Gon's quest for life after death, or is it different enough (dark side tethered to Dathomir) to not matter to him? Certainly it would be of interest to Plagueis/Sidious. The ghosts made it sound like having a corporeal form would allow them to rise again, how could they if they can't leave the temple?

 

Spoiler

I guess the alter acted in much the same manner as Talzin's hidden monolith tomb, its where they center themselves around certain objects. Stone isnt organic though, they're able to manifest due to the organic nature of Dathomir itself and the beings that called upon them, as they need their flesh and blood bodies to reform in much the same manner as Talzin had. I would say its overall the planet itself, " The waters of life" and all of Dathomir is the key. Also in Dark Disciple everything on Dathomir, including its wildlife were in same way touched by the Dark Side. Vos' speculation based on his unique abilities in the Force give us our clues to the Dark Side planet itself, along with TCW and SOD #4. Ventress's body was flesh and blood and she was filled with midiclorians, so in a sense her body was also a form of sacrifice .