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The Supernatural Force (The Ones, Priestesses, Bendu etc.)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Meeko Ghintee, Jul 20, 2016.

  1. The Shadow Emperor

    The Shadow Emperor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Mother Talzin turned into stone when she died. In a way you could think of her as a living spirit altar since she's able to channel spirit energy through herself. Unfortunately I don't think she can return. As a shaman existing as a medium between the physical and spirit worlds, if you kill her in one realm, you kill her in the other. Makes her both uniquely powerful and uniquely vulnerable.
     
  2. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Talzin vanished into the spirit realm after the pyramid was destroyed, so she lost her physical body once again. She somehow was able to be channeled by Maul though and appear to him when he was using the Force mediation and apparently she was able live inside him as she manifested herself from out've his body. She was only able to form a flesh body after Maul brought Dooku to to her monolith to be flesh and blood sacrifice and it essentially plays out the same way on Rebels, this time luring Kanan and Sabine to be the lambs. I don't remember her monolith being destroyed after her body, just her body turned to stone and ash or whatever . But if there was a way for Maul to bring her back again, I think he would've by now. I would think her spirit was just at that time completely lost to oblivion.


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  3. Mother_Talzin

    Mother_Talzin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2014
    I feel "Visions and Voices" just visualized what was brought up in Dark Disciple, where only voices of the ghosts were mentioned. I'm glad Dathomir has the unique ability to allow the Force sensitive Nightsisters to exist after death - I've always felt it was too extreme a stance for only a very limited number of Jedi to be capable of that. The Nightsister ghosts seem to be harnessed to Dathomir and we've yet to see them manifest off-world, outside of Talzin - who was in the spirit realm when she was in contact with Maul during the events of SOD.
     
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  4. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2015
    So dark side using Nightsisters can exist in spirit form like Jedi but Sith can't. Boy, that's fair.

    I smell a future retcon coming.
     
  5. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    I think the idea behind them is that they found the correct balance are able to remain themselves as they use the Dark Side as a tool and do not let the Dark Side use them. Being that Maul communed with ghosts while living on Dathomir, plus Mother, certainly he believes in ghosts and a life after death,lol.

    I think the most interesting thing is, Maul's ability to project himself to who he wants . I wonder if he's done that to Leia on Naboo.
     
  6. Meeko Ghintee

    Meeko Ghintee Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2015
    Out of universe, doesn't that undercut the morality of Star Wars a bit? That immortality is gift after becoming one with the force and overcoming selfishness. The very fact that one could use the Dark Side without it using you kinda makes the Jedi philosophy seem wrong (but then again, if one really wants to tug at that thread, according to Filoni at 1:58 in this video, the beings who give Yoda his ghost ability don't live in terms of good or evil...huh? More I think about it, kinda connects to the first page where people were saying the force doesn't have a will or morality...)



    You could say that the nightsister ghosts live a pathetic existence and thus its not showing the dark side as a good thing, but ultimately I think a man like Palpatine (or any Sith) would take it over death and in that context (pathetic life vs death) would probably consider it small victory.
     
  7. Mother_Talzin

    Mother_Talzin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2014
    Tapping into the dark side of the Force and being evil are two different things. Especially considering many Jedi have tapped into the dark side, even briefly. When we look at the actions of the Nightsisters - how truly evil were they? Do they commit genocide and start wars like the Sith? No, the Sith brought the Nightsisters into their plans when Sidious first met with Talzin and stole her son - had that event never happened, its likely that Dathomir wouldn't have even been involved in the Clone Wars. I believe they were far more balanced than any Sith - they land somewhere in the middle in my opinion, like the Bendu. Most of the Nightsisters died protecting their planet, Ventress died to save a Jedi, Talzin died to save her son - those sacrifices were not born of evil.
     
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  8. Meeko Ghintee

    Meeko Ghintee Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2015
    Well there was that whole episode arc where their leader kidnaps an entire people and tries to suck their life force out to retain power...And the whole keeping a harem of Zabrak slaves...And the whole demanding flesh sacrifice thing and possessing people...
     
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  9. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Like I stated earlier. I smell a retcon cooking.
     
  10. episodenone

    episodenone Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 13, 2001
    I have said this before elsewhere and it never seems to get noticed -- but to me the first thing to jump out by way of comparisons to previous mythos is that

    The Bendu = Tom Bombadil

    Especially the way he kind of laughed at the Holocron

    I remember Gandalf and Galadriel didn't even want to touch the One Ring -- but Tom Bombadil considered it a trinket. Much in the same way that the Bendu held onto it and didn't much care one way or the other.

    My only real problem with the Bendu - who is a character I like - is that he might be a corporeal being. I think he is manifesting on Attalon and likely one of these same apparitions like the others Father, Son, Daughter, the Mime Ladies, etc
    But none of them really care about the others existence as they have no reason to.

    I'd like to one day see, because it is inevitable that Chopper Base will be abandoned, The Bendu reappear on some other world as an entirely different iteration of itself.
     
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  11. Meeko Ghintee

    Meeko Ghintee Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2015
    My hypothesis (and I say this as someone who thought the Mortis arc was too strange for my tastes) is that the Bendu might actually be the Father, and that Convor is the Daughter. After the destruction of their humanoid bodies, they take random new forms on other worlds strong in the force.
     
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  12. episodenone

    episodenone Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 13, 2001

    So does this mean Mortis still floats around uninhabited? And then, what makes Attalon so special?

    I'm starting to buy in to the Father = Bendu and Daughter = Convor and Son = ...Snoke? [kidding]

    You guys have made sound arguments for this to be the case.
     
  13. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    I think Mortis was destroyed by the explosion of the kyber crystal inside it.
     
  14. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Who is Convor? I am drawing a blank here.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. starocean90

    starocean90 Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2014
    LOL, you got that right.
    I myself even though I've read Lord of the Rings numerous time, did not pick up on the Tom Bombadil as after being bored with it the first time. I always skipped that part afterwards but once I read this, it all clicked he really is Bombadil.

    http://www.slashfilm.com/dave-filoni-star-wars-rebels-season-3-interview/2/
     
  16. TheAvengerButton

    TheAvengerButton Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2011
    I believe the Force beings we've seen up to this point are manifestations of the Will of the Force, but they aren't actors in the realm of consciousness that is the Star Wars universe. They are merely there to provide visions and warnings and guidance, not unlike Angels and spirits in religious tomes.

    The whole of the Mortis arc is a vision or an allegory that Anakin, Ahsoka and Obi-Wan become involved in regarding the future of the force and its role in the galaxy. It is an interactive stage play put on by the Force in order to illustrate the situation going on in the Galaxy. The Dark Side overpowers the light and seeks to escape to take over the galaxy, and it is through great sacrifice that the Light is able to overcome the Dark, with the Father, who was supposed to keep the balance over the light and the dark, sacrificing his life to rid the Dark of its power.
     
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  17. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Am pretty sure Palpatine used a crystal ball device in Dark Empire III, called the oracle stone or something. Interesting that they gave a similar such device to Mother Talzin and Maul appears to have it stashed.
     
  18. Starwarsfan9000

    Starwarsfan9000 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2012
    I said this awhile back when the Bendu was first introduced but I think it should be repeated. People have been saying which Force entities represent what and if one is a reincarnation of the other. They are probably all different manifestations with similar viewpoints in some areas but also different as not all of them are shown to have the same abilities and motives.

    Father was hellbent on having someone secure his legacy and the idea of the Chosen One while the Priestesses are focused on the spiritual side of things while the Bendu is the one in the middle who is like Tom Babadil as many people said someone who leans towards the side of good but is on no particular side either (And also Tom Babadil, Tom Baker. Yeah that was a coincidence). He is in control and tune with both sides because whether we want to admit it or not we all have a dark side it's just a matter of keeping it contained. The idea of no attachment and to be unemotional is an impossible task and the Jedi trying to live by this lifestyle is hard to do and it was one of several things that brought them down. Bendu does share in common with the Priestesses that he prefers to teach someone to look inside themselves and connect with their environment which Yoda taught Luke to do.

    I said already but I kind of want to see a White Council sort of the various Force Beings throughout the Galaxy communicating with one another and hearing their beliefs in the Force against one another. What one believes over the other if they feel the idea of a Chosen One is right or if it's something else entirely. I doubt they all don't agree with one answer. The Chosen One was believed to only be a possibilty by the Jedi they believed it somewhat but after years of not seeing it manifest they doubted it which is why they were sceptical of Anakin and also his over attachment to his emotions. Also I want to see Bendu communicate with other Star Wars characters like Yoda or even Qui-Gon. I kind of wanted him to communicate with Maul (which does put into question whether if the Bendu is a physical being or is a spiritual one manifesting as one? All the other Force Beings had mystical connections with the Father becoming one with the Force when he died and the Force Preistesses are ghosts representing various emotions the Bendu up to that moment seemed to exist in the physical realm as a manifestation of controlling both light and dark. Either that or he can teleport)

    I also would like to see more Force Beings like this and I get the feeling we will. There will be a book detailing the Force's history and the philosophies of it and the various people who abide by it in different ways I know it. It'll take years and probably a ton of writers and be as long as the Bible but it'd be cool to have.

    I've said this before too but I just want to say it again. Many want Revan to come back into canon and because of how his character was I could maybe see that happening (and his popularity is probably just as much as Thrawn so if they are looking for the next legends character to bring into canon it would probably be him) because of how his views fall in line with the various Force beings we've encountered. Someone who fell between light and dark and eventually came to master both. Well until TOR when he separated into two beings and had to reestablish his connection and combine his two halves into one again but that's another story. If Revan were to return to canon where do you guys think he'd be? Again I think he'd be the same to a degree but anything that might have clashed with canon could change but it wouldn't be hard to bring him back in with the ideas they are introducing.
     
  19. Meeko Ghintee

    Meeko Ghintee Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2015
    So after watching Twin Suns, a few questions:

    Maul's final question to Ben regards the Chosen One which makes me wonder, is the prophecy of the Chosen One something that the Sith believe in as well? What exactly does "balance to the force" mean to the Sith? Maul believes the Chosen One will avenge him, implying that he believes that the Chosen One is an enemy of Palpatine. Is this just his interpretation or is it an opinion all Sith share? In other words, do the Sith view the Chosen One as a threat, or do they, like the Jedi, believe "balance to the force" means a hero for their side?

    Obi Wan seems aware of the Holocron thing. When the concept of them was introduced, I didn't think this would be something the Jedi would be aware of. Wouldn't the fact that mixing Dark knowledge and Light knowledge leads to clarity and enlightenment be a huge philosophical threat to the idea that the Light is supreme or that "Balance to the force" means the eradication of the Dark side? And, from an out of universe perspective, how exactly is the viewer supposed to interpret that? Isn't that kinda arguing that a little bit of darkness is good?
     
  20. Zejo the Jedi

    Zejo the Jedi Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 16, 2016
    Balance of the Force DOES mean the eradication of the Dark Side (the Sith) , simple as that.
     
  21. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    It doesn't mean eradication of the dark side. It was either Lucas or Filoni, many years ago, that gave a brief relation to the prophecy and how it played out in the movies. Rather complicated and, unsurprisingly, its true meaning has remained a secret.
     
  22. Mother_Talzin

    Mother_Talzin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2014
    Viewers can interpret it just as the Jedi and Sith do - differently. As Lucas once said, no one considers themselves evil, so the Sith might look at Vader as the Chosen One because they considered the Jedi unbalanced and corrupt. You can explore other Force sensitive cultures, like the Nightsisters, and find that they may have considered one of their own as the Chosen One, that would rid the galaxy of both Jedi and Sith, or at least knock them out of dominating galactic events.
     
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  23. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Soliloquist of SWTV star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    I'm not wholly sure the Sith care about the Chosen One prophecy; I imagine they're merely aware of it and aware of how the Jedi thought Anakin was the Chosen One, but other than Sidious none of the Sith really cared about it, at least none of Sidious' apprentices.
     
  24. Meeko Ghintee

    Meeko Ghintee Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2015
    Is it ever expressly said its a Jedi prophecy? Who made it? Star Wars Trelawney?
     
  25. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Soliloquist of SWTV star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    In Legends it might have been, but considering the Ones seem to know all about it I tend to think it might transcend the Jedi and Sith, and maybe somewhere along the way the Jedi appropriated it to be their chosen one to defeat their enemy. 'Course that gets into what's the thing that makes the Force balanced in the first place, and who stands to gain from balance, followers of the light, followers of the dark, or both.