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Senate The Supreme Court

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Oct 9, 2011.

  1. Juliet316

    Juliet316 39x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    Apr 27, 2005
    This is why Trump nominated him:

    Scholarship
    In 2009, Kavanaugh wrote an article for the Minnesota Law Review where he argued that U.S. Presidents should be exempt from “time-consuming and distracting” lawsuits and investigations, which “would ill serve the public interest, especially in times of financial or national security crisis.”[51] This article garnered attention in 2018 when Kavanaugh was nominated to the Supreme Court by President Donald Trump, whose 2016 presidential campaign is the subject of an ongoing federal probe by Special Counsel Robert Mueller.[51]
     
  2. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 2, 2000
    Frankly, the main reason the author of this piece doesn't feel particularly anxious about RvW being overturned is because he's a man.
     
  3. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    And this scares me far more than any pro-life pro-gun pro-whatever-conservative-talking-point agenda.

    The fact that if it comes to the court, he will decide that Trump can do whatever the hell he wants.
     
  4. Juliet316

    Juliet316 39x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    Yup. Trump likely glided over all the other 'litmus' test issues and just went for the guy who'd likely vote in his favor on all the lawsuits and investigations.
     
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  5. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 2, 2000
    Which is why it should be (and maybe actually is? I mean, nobody in this administration cares) illegal for the President to nominate a Justice when being investigated in a case that could end up at the Supreme Court.
     
  6. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    There is no such impediment absent constitutional amendment. At best we have theories of equity counseling executive restraint but we all know that's not happening.

    Of course, the Senate could use it as a justification to hold off on hearings.... but we also know that's not happening.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
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  7. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 12, 2006
    Honestly Kavanagh is probably the best person on Trump's list. Very precedent based unlike Gorsuch. Unlikely to overturn Roe or Obergefell. Probably going to be in the Roberts mode rather than Alito/Gorusch or Thomas/Scalia.

    Also thank God it's not Barrett. That would be a nightmare.
     
  8. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    What in dissenting to allow a 17year old undocumented immigrant an abortion gives you the idea he'll not overturn Roe v Wade?
     
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  9. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 12, 2006
    The fact that he said he would respect Roe v Wade's precedent during his confirmation hearing for the D.C. Court.

    He still might overturn it, but he's much less likely to do it than Barrett or Hardiman. I wasn't expecting Trump to nominate Garland so I'll take what I can get.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  10. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    It's a very careful decision that needs parsing. It's not the fact that he dissented, but what he said while doing so.

    He was purporting to apply Casey. His dissent comes out to: "the government has a right to seek transfer to an immigration sponsor before paying for an abortion, so long as it's expeditious (in this case, 7 days) and if the government fails to meet the deadline, they must pay for the abortion."

    Now, Casey is, I think, a terrible compromise and we've seen that in how it's been applied. There's a lot of issues you can take with the assumptions about what constitutes an undue burden on women and the way that the authorities in this country infantilize (no pun intended) women's bodily autonomy in this country. It's just a mess that really narrows what Roe means. It hasn't done anyone any good due to its lack of clarity -- but it's better than nothing. Even if it means that his dissent is probably not really out of the mainstream.

    But the trick is: he was very cagey in his language to talk about precedents and assumed rights of abortion, which is emphatically NOT endorsement of a constitutional right to privacy/bodily autonomy/abortion.

    Will he vote to overturn Roe? He very well might. Or he might just stick with it. But close reading of that dissent does lead to some concern, even though on the surface he was very careful to present a legally professional and disciplined argument about jurisprudence.
     
  11. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    And Trump said he'd be nominating judges who would overturn Roe v Wade. FFS, learn your lesson and believe him.
     
  12. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 12, 2006
    Okay? We know he wants to do that, which is why I think Kavanagh is the best out of his list because there is some reasonable doubt that he will vote to overturn it, unlike Barrett or Hardiman who definitely would vote to overturn it. That's what we're saying.
     
  13. poor yorick

    poor yorick Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

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    Jun 25, 2002
    I don't think Trump actually gives a damn one way or the other about abortion. He knows that his base wants him to be anti-abortion, so he goes along. What he cares about is holding onto power, and it looks like Kavanaugh will help him do that. I think that's all there is to it.
     
  14. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

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    Aug 16, 2002
    Isn't it a pretty common opinion that the president can't be indicted while in office and must be impeached first?
     
  15. appleseed

    appleseed Chosen One star 5

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    Dec 5, 2002
    Opinions are mixed and it's never been adjudicated.
     
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  16. Juliet316

    Juliet316 39x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    Apr 27, 2005
    But it is precedent that a President can be sued(during the Clinton administion, which was one of the factors that lead to the Lewinsky mess, actually), I'd imagine Trump might very well want to overturn that precedent.
     
  17. Rew

    Rew Chosen One star 5

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    Dec 22, 2008
    Another thing about Kavanaugh is not only is his stance that a sitting president should not be indicted, but also that the president should have full power over special counsels, to hire and fire at will. This will probably be the end of Mueller's investigation.
     
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  18. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    Yes. It’s not definitive and there’s room for debate, but it’s NOT uncommon at all. Far more relevant is the DOJ guidance restricting indictment —the special counsel is bound to that, end of story.

    The concerns about the law journal article are... overplayed.
     
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  19. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 25, 1999
    As a practical matter, Roe is pretty much already dead. The Democrats should focus on legislation giving women back the dignity and respect that state abortion restrictions have stripped away, not just on the rulings of the Court. A federal “Freedom of Choice” Act that guarantees the right to unrestricted first trimester abortion, while deferring to the states between the 16th week and viability (with the right to fully ban after viability, should a state so choose, with strong protections/exceptions for the life and health of the mother) would be a legally sound compromise that a majority of the public would probably support.

    In a post-Roe area, even a deeply conservative Supreme Court would have difficulty overturning such a law, given that Justice Kennedy himself made the argument in Gonzales v Carhart that Congress has the authority to regulate abortion, despite the existence of Casey and Roe. He was also careful to state that the ‘direction’ of such legislation was entirely up to Congress; in other words, the Court cannot rule that Congress may only restrict, and not expand, access to abortion, as doing so would be a polical and not judicial exercise. For the Court to overturn future abortion rights legislation (should it ever be passed), it would potentially have to reverse that very standard and declare that the Constitution requires that abortion be banned. Such a decision would have far-reaching consequences well beyond abortion, and even arch-conservatives such as Justice Scalia and Clarence Thomas have shied away from embracing that particular point-of-view (Antonin Scalia spoke publicly against interpreting the Constitution in this manner). By giving the states leeway, it might help defuse a 10th-Amendment challenge to such a law as well (which would be moot in my opinion, as no such concerns were raised by the Court in Gonzhales re: the late-term abortion ban).

    In other words, Democrats would be well-served to win back power in Washington and pass laws. The Court is key, but it’s likely lost for now. Let’s turn the GOP’s arguments against them, and box the Court into a corner with a solid and well-supported law.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  20. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    Define "viability?" Artificial wombs would be created in 2 years, tops.

    Women should have bodily autonomy, full stop. Medical decision between her and her doctor.
     
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  21. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 25, 1999
    I agree completely in principle (especially as a physician) but practically speaking, that type of law will never make it past a Senate filibuster, and the Supreme Court would gut it to the bone. Even my own state medical society voted down a resolution at last year’s House of Delegates asking PAMED to fully back equal access to all women’s health services that are available under the law. The debate on the resolution went IMMEDIATELY to abortion, and the resolution was sunk by doctors from the rural counties who feared that we would be seen as endorsing a “controversial” subject. The point is, this conflict is deeply rooted in American society, and I’m looking for a way forward that can get majority support. What you suggest is the ultimate goal, but it’s going to take an awful lot to get there. And supporters of liberal abortions laws like you and I are currently in retreat in Washington when it comes to policy.

    As far as viability goes, the standard should be “natural viability”, not whatever science can cook up. It makes sense, and science changes so fast sometimes regardless that it’s also the most reasonable legislative path to take.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  22. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 2, 2000
    Precisely. I think he said he'd only nominate justices who would vote to overturn Roe v. Wade. I mean, what more does one need? Sure, let's parse all the judicial opinions and pour over the guy's career and have lengthy hearings and argue about whether or not the anxiety over Roe is over blown . . .

    Or just listen to what the guy who nominated him said and take it at face value. He said he would only nominate justices who would vote to overturn Roe. He nominated Kavanaugh.

    And I'll just once again point out that the vast majority of these pieces about how Roe isn't going to be overturned are essentially men going "calm down, ladies," and most women know how those situations turn out. Like, please, ladies, let the sweet reassurances of Leonard Leo fill you with peace.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
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  23. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

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    Jul 19, 1999
    So, like this guy? David "Brexit" aka "Calm Down Dear" Cameron?
    [​IMG]
     
  24. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 25, 1999
  25. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 25, 1999
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018