The Third Installment of the 2005 Jedi Draft!!!!

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by Darth-Horax, Jun 8, 2005.

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  1. Darth-Horax Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2001
    star 6
    There's more stuff written on Plo than Vodo or Bane combined.
  2. bburditt Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2004
    star 5
    Next number of the finals called is 1!!!!!

    Finals: The Brooklyn Jedi (GenMadine) (1) vs. D-Unit (Mr_Sith) (3)
    Ulic Qel-Droma vs. Darth Sion

    ON WITH THE DRAFT!!!
  3. bburditt Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2004
    star 5
    Horax, no there's not. Bane maybe, but even what is written about Bane is better than what is written about Koon. They both have a lot of assumed, but Bane's assumed stuff is a lot better.

    And Vodo, no, he has way more than Koon to back him up.

    Hell, even Ghost agrees that Bane is better than Koon.


    Ulic wins this match by the way./>

  4. Shadow_of_Durron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 2, 2003
    star 6
  5. bburditt Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2004
    star 5
    Next number of the finals called is 1!!!!!

    Finals: The Brooklyn Jedi (GenMadine) (2) vs. D-Unit (Mr_Sith) (3)
    Mace Windu vs. Darth Vader

    ON WITH THE DRAFT!!!





    Now, I am going to read arguments on this match-up, from both judges and GMs. I noticed both the other judges had Vader as better than Mace, I had Mace as better than Vader, but Ghost and I both had an equal sign. I really, really am not decided on this match-up yet, and am going to take time to think about it./>
    />
  6. Darth-Horax Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2001
    star 6
    I personally think that ONLY the GM's invovled shoudl be able to write essays on this as it's a very improtant match.
  7. Mr_Sith Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2003
    star 5
    Power: Well, Vader is a direct descendant of the force, while Mace is not. We've seen quite a bit out of Mace in the Clone Wars, and we saw that he could handle the lightning of Sidious, but Vader's powerful offensive command over the force is so much greater than his. (IE: ESB) Vader's force strength also fuels his Form V. And, Form V is up there amongst the best lightsaber forms. And in Vader's case, it is the best only behind Vapaad. Vader's sheer physical power alone fuels his Form V, and thats what makes him so deadly. That why we see Luke ducking under his blows whenever he can, not trying to block them. Vader's physical power, and force power can overwhelm Mace. At least I think so. Vader wins this, especially being born from the force. I mean, can Mace beat that? I seriously doubt it.

    Vader also has 1600 newtons of power in one hand. :)

    Skill: I'll concede this to Mace, just because of Vapaad and the fact that he could hang with Sids. But, like I pointed out earlier, Vader's physical power and force power influence his command of Form V, and with those attributes, it would be so hard to hang with Vader. Vader's physical attributes can be atributed to his suit. Do you think his suit would get tired in a fight? No, it's a machine. But Mace would. In his prime, Vader (pre-suit or no) has the higher endurance to hang with Mace. If you read the ROTS book, it goes into detail about how Mace tires quickly once he delves into Vapaad. Uhh, not good against someone like Vader. He's a bloody machine. I'll give this to Mace, but it's very, very, very, close. And I can't push enough what would happen if Mace taps into Vapaad, and tires, against a machine. I really can't.

    Experience: This is where Vader takes it all. Every single bit of it. What does Mace have? Sids? That's it. Vader has the purge, the Jedi Temple, Obi-Wan (three times), Luke (three times), he has the experience of Anakin. Which includes Ventress and all of that. Vader just has the experience of three galaxy changing conflicts, whereas Mace has but the one. Vader has fought force users, to the best of the Emperor's Royal Guard (Kir Kanos) and Vader just has more fighting experience. Against force users, or not, he has more experience. That's all there is to it.

    Vader has trained people who have defeated post ROTJ Luke, and I think that is a testament to his skill, experience, and power. Vader, almost straight down the line, takes Mace. I'll give Mace skill, but he can't hang with Vader for long, and isn't powerful enough, or experienced enough to do so.
  8. Zonama_Sockot Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2005
    What a match to decide the first of a best of 3 series. Cant wait to see who wins.
  9. Shadow_of_Durron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 2, 2003
    star 6
    Finals: The Brooklyn Jedi (GenMadine) (2) vs. D-Unit (Mr_Sith) (3)
    Mace Windu vs. Darth Vader


    This is really a no-brainer for me, despite the fact that it's a very close, very competitive matchup. Skill would go to Mace, but it's not by all that much. Vader, however, just decimates Mr. Windu in power and experience. Suited or unsuited, Vader is just the better man.

    Winner: Darth Vader

  10. GenMadine Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 6
    Well, I have covered this before. Mace is superior to Vader. Sith makes some nice points, and even concedes Skill to Mace, which is nice of him, but more on that later...

    So lets start with the big thing: Mace beat Sidious, clearly. And that is one person, yes, but the granddaddy of them all in his era, so to say that he only fought one person is misleading - he beat the big man. And no novice can do that, and apparently a lot of Jedi Masters cannot either - Sids disposed of the other three in a blink of an eye. So for Mace to beat Sids - that means a lot. A lot.

    Also misleading is Vader's experience. Sith mentioned Vader has more: Well, I just lost my Plo match, one of the reasons was "all we have seen Plo do block a lot of lasers." Well, I want to point out a lot of Vader's "experience" is on par with that. The Jedi purge was a wash - he killed Cig and kids. The Clones did the rest. We all saw that. As for "experience in three galaxy-changing times - He killed an old man, beat up on an under-trained inexperienced boy on Bespin, and the only fights we saw Vader in against people of his level were Luke on DS II and against Obi-Wan on Mustafar. Where he was beaten - both times. So in the suit, out of the suit, Vader's experience has more written on it also because of the time involved - he has been around for 30 years. Mace just 6 or so. But quantity is not quality. Everything we read on Mace, he is a badass. He is unmatched. Vader picks on the weak, and when he fights real power and talent - loses each time.

    Which brings up this power element. Vader in ROTS would lose to Mace. After ROTS, he is literally not half the man he used to be. His power is severly compromised because he lost so many midichlorians. We all think he was a bad mf for years, but now we know the truth since the whole story is complete. He seems more powerful than he really is because he is the only Force-user besides the Emperor in the galaxy. We see him choke people with telekenisis - that is power, sure, but against unpowerful people, not such a great feat. Vader is powerful, yes, but in the suit, he is a mid-level power, as have seen. All we have read and seen on Mace shows us he is the "second most powerful Jedi" in the galaxy, behind Yoda. And each new thing that is written on Mace just adds to that legacy.

    Falling to the dark side is a weakness. And something that happens in the quest to power to many wonderful Jedi. Mace is a Vapaad master. It is a form that few can master, and those that try often fall to the dark side. But not Mace, which shows how strong he is, physically, in the Force and in constitution. And that will keep him "in the zone" against a "machine". Vapaad eclipses Form 5. All the things Sith said about the power of Vader being channeled into Form V - may be true, but with vapaad, it is double or triple that. So he can finish Vader off before he even got tired.

    To conclude: Quantity does not equal the quantity. If Vader ever won against a talented and trained fighter like Mace, I would just flat - out agree with Sith here. But he hasn't. Mace beat Sidious, and that takes a knowledgable, skilled and EXPERIENCED fighter. What has Vader show us in all that "experience" - that he loses to more powerful and skilled Jedi: Obi-Wan, Luke Skywalker, and Mace Windu.

    Winner: Mace Windu

    Madine out
  11. GenMadine Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 6
    It is time for today's Afternoon Snack!


    Afternoon Snack 100


    Enjoy this afternoon snack.


    Madine out

  12. bburditt Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2004
    star 5
    Damnit, both of you make good points.

    Madine, I think Vapaad is more directed at speed, but I could be wrong. Either way, it doesn't really matter to me, because I don't place to much weight on what form someone uses.
  13. Darth-Horax Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2001
    star 6
    Burd, you're up in the user draft.
  14. GenMadine Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 6

    lol - funny.

    Madine out
  15. Ghost_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2003
    star 5
    How is this from the os:

    Koon was more martial a Jedi than most. Kel Dor natives have a reputation for seeing moral issues in black and white, with clear distinctions between right and wrong. As such, Koon often took decisive action with little contemplation. This initiative served him well during the Stark Hyperspace Wars, when he took up the Republic banner after a great Jedi Master was killed. Koon rallied the disheartened troops to an unlikely and miraculous victory.




    As for the Mace vs Vader match, by vote goes to Mace as Mace beat Sid, who everyone says is better than Vader.


    And just for the record, the last time I was a judge I voted this way./>

  16. bburditt Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2004
    star 5
    Ghost, way to go, you just proved to us that Koon knows how to lead.

    P.S. Stark was mostly a war done in planes, and he was a General in it. He can lead and fly weeee.
  17. Mr_Sith Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2003
    star 5
    So lets start with the big thing: Mace beat Sidious, clearly.

    Not clearly. Read the book. Mace admits that Palpatine is too strong for him.

    And that is one person, yes, but the granddaddy of them all in his era, so to say that he only fought one person is misleading - he beat the big man. And no novice can do that, and apparently a lot of Jedi Masters cannot either - Sids disposed of the other three in a blink of an eye. So for Mace to beat Sids - that means a lot. A lot.

    Sure it does. It really does. But he didn't clearly beat him, he didn't defeat Palps straight up like everyone is saying. And if you want, I'll give you a quote from the book.

    Also misleading is Vader's experience. Sith mentioned Vader has more: Well, I just lost my Plo match, one of the reasons was "all we have seen Plo do block a lot of lasers." Well, I want to point out a lot of Vader's "experience" is on par with that. The Jedi purge was a wash - he killed Cig and kids.

    Actually, no it wasn't. Read the OS, and then get back to me. Oh, and please play the ROTS game.

    The Clones did the rest. We all saw that.

    No, they didn't.

    As for "experience in three galaxy-changing times - He killed an old man, beat up on an under-trained inexperienced boy on Bespin, and the only fights we saw Vader in against people of his level were Luke on DS II and against Obi-Wan on Mustafar.

    Actually, I have a few Tales comics, where it shows Vader has experience who are just as lethal, if not more, than the PT Jedi.

    So in the suit, out of the suit, Vader's experience has more written on it also because of the time involved - he has been around for 30 years.

    Does that mean that Mace should win just because he wasn't around as long as Vader?

    Everything we read on Mace, he is a badass.

    And Vader isn't?

    Vader picks on the weak, and when he fights real power and talent - loses each time.

    Like I said, I'll break out the few comics I have.

    Which brings up this power element. Vader in ROTS would lose to Mace. After ROTS, he is literally not half the man he used to be. His power is severly compromised because he lost so many midichlorians.

    PPOR.

    We all think he was a bad mf for years, but now we know the truth since the whole story is complete. He seems more powerful than he really is because he is the only Force-user besides the Emperor in the galaxy.

    No he isn't. Like I said, I'll refer you to Lumiya.

    All we have read and seen on Mace shows us he is the "second most powerful Jedi" in the galaxy, behind Yoda.

    Which is obviously saying a lot in that era.

    Falling to the dark side is a weakness. And something that happens in the quest to power to many wonderful Jedi. Mace is a Vapaad master. It is a form that few can master, and those that try often fall to the dark side. But not Mace, which shows how strong he is, physically, in the Force and in constitution. And that will keep him "in the zone" against a "machine".

    But what you fail to realize, and this is something that George Lucas himself has pointed out is that the darkside, for short term, is stronger. Big deal if he fell? Palpatine had to fall sometime, is he weak?

    Vapaad eclipses Form 5. All the things Sith said about the power of Vader being channeled into Form V - may be true, but with vapaad, it is double or triple that. So he can finish Vader off before he even got tired.

    No, actually, he can't. I have the ROTS book right here, in my hand, and I've read through that duel. Vapaad isn't what won Mace that duel. It was the fact that Palpatine was too old. Hell, Mace even mentions that Palpatine was too strong for him, while he was in Vapaad, so Form VII isn't the be all end all the would destroy Vader. Vader combined with his Form V would not be destroyed before Mace even got tired. That's absurd. Vader can institute 1760 pounds of force in one of his blows. I don't care who you are, that will slow Vapaad down. Quite a bit. But hey, li
  18. bburditt Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2004
    star 5
    Finals: The Brooklyn Jedi (GenMadine) (2) vs. D-Unit (Mr_Sith) (3)
    Mace Windu vs. Darth Vader

    Wow, still not sure of who I'm gonna vote for, even as I type this.

    Let me start, by figuring out, once and for all, where I think Vader's prime is. I'm gonna have to go ahead and say post-suit. Sure, he lost a lot of his raw power, but I think that he has more knowledge of the force, plus he's much more capable of controlling his power, unlike ROTS whiny ***** Vader. God I hate Hayden Christensen, and Sam Jackson rules. Anyways. His skill is a lot better, and he has more experience. I say his skill is better because he is a smarter fighter. He wouldn't be pulling that stupid crap that he did against Obi-Wan on Mustafar.

    Let me start with power. Vader has more of it, plain and simple. Why does he have more of it? He is the son of the force. Vader takes this category. Plus, Mace couldn't beat Kar Vastor, which was mainly a match of power, so that's a testament to Mace not having much power.

    Skill: Mace flat out beat Sidious in the saber duel. I agree that Sidious definitely did not try his hardest once Anakin got there, but in the end, he got beat with the blade. I'm sure he definitely could have beaten Mace with his raw power in the end of all things if he tried his hardest, but he still got beat with the saber. Vader on the other hand, in my opinion, is just as much, if not more skilled than Mace. Vader killed Dooku, the same Dooku that beat Mace in sparring matches. Granted, this is not the same Mace, but this is also not the same whiny ROTS Anakin either. I would also go so far to say that Dooku or Anakin are more skilled than Sidious. The fact of the matter is, ROTS Sidious, is not the most skilled person out there. He's by far the most powerful, except for Yoda, but definitely not the most skilled, for the matter, neither is Yoda the most skilled. Vader and Mace are right at the top as far as skill is concerned. This is so close, that it's even.

    What it eventually comes down to for me, is who has more general proof that they are the better fighter. Madine is right, Vader lost a couple big matches to Luke and Obi-Wan. I will concede the loss to Luke, however, I would definitely concede Mace that loss as well. It's Luke damnit Skywalker. He lost the match to Obi-Wan out of pure stupidity and arrogance, he is much more controlled in the suit, you've seen the OT. Mace beat Sidious in the duel, but like I said, Sidious doesn't have as much saber skill as Vader does, at least not in ROTS. I'm going with my gut, I'm going with the chosen one. This is so close, that I probably could have satisfied myself by flipping a coin, unfortunately, someone has to lose.

    The Winner: Darth Vader

    ON WITH THE DRAFT!!!
  19. Mr_Sith Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2003
    star 5
    I don't think I've ever been in so much suspense over one fight in the history of the draft than I have for this one.
  20. bburditt Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2004
    star 5
    Teams!!!!!

    Finals: The Brooklyn Jedi (GenMadine) (2) vs. D-Unit (Mr_Sith) (4)
    No need for teams.

    First number of the finals take 2 called is 4!!!!!

    Finals: The Brooklyn Jedi (GenMadine) vs. D-Unit (Mr_Sith)
    Plo Koon vs. Asajj Ventress


    The judges have already voted on this, and it is a no-brainer.

    Next number of the finals take 2 called is 1!!!!!

    Finals: The Brooklyn Jedi (GenMadine) (0) vs. D-Unit (Mr_Sith) (1)
    Ulic Qel-Droma vs. Onimi


    I am voting Ulic, and I know Ghost and Shadow will too, let?s move on.

    Next number of the finals take 2 called is 3!!!!!

    Finals: The Brooklyn Jedi (GenMadine) (1) vs. D-Unit (Mr_Sith) (1)
    Vodo Siosk-Baas vs. Darth Bane


    This match was judged today.

    Next number of the finals take 2 called is 2!!!!!

    Finals: The Brooklyn Jedi (GenMadine) (2) vs. D-Unit (Mr_Sith) (1)
    Tott Donetta trumped with Cay Qel-Droma vs. Darth Vader


    If Malak gets the vote, Vader does.
    Next number of the finals take 2 called is 5!!!!!

    Finals: The Brooklyn Jedi (GenMadine) (2) vs. D-Unit (Mr_Sith) (2)
    Mace Windu vs. Darth Sion


    Another easy one, Mace wins.

    Last number of the finals take 2 called is 6!!!!!

    Finals: The Brooklyn Jedi (GenMadine) (3) vs. D-Unit (Mr_Sith) (2)
    Cay Qel-Droma (Forfeit) vs. Darth Malak


    Winner, Malak.

    Teams!!!!!

    Finals: The Brooklyn Jedi (GenMadine) (3) vs. D-Unit (Mr_Sith) (3)
    Mace Windu, Ulic Qel-Droma, Vodo Siosk-Baas, Plo Koon, Cay Qel-Droma, Tott Donetta

    vs.

    Darth Vader, Darth Malak, Asajj Ventress, Onimi, Darth Sion, Darth Bane

    ON WITH THE DRAFT!!!/>/>/>/>/>/>
    />/>/>/>/>
  21. bburditt Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2004
    star 5
    Huge match here, if Mr_Sith gets the team vote, then he wins the whole draft, if Madine does, then we go to take 3, where Mr_Sith will have to go 4 and 2 again.
  22. Zonama_Sockot Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Let me start, by figuring out, once and for all, where I think Vader's prime is. I'm gonna have to go ahead and say post-suit. Sure, he lost a lot of his raw power, but I think that he has more knowledge of the force, plus he's much more capable of controlling his power, unlike ROTS whiny ***** Vader.

    I absolutely agree with this. I have been saying the saying this since the discussion thread post-ROTS. Yes he lost some agility and raw force potential, but he gained so much more. He is umpteen times stronger physically, and has recieved 20+ years of Sith teachings. Not to mention 20 years of honing his saber skills and dueling Palpy McPalperson and the Jedi stragglers he hunted down post-suit.

    EDIT: LOL. Fastest. Round. Ever.
  23. bburditt Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2004
    star 5
    Finals: The Brooklyn Jedi (GenMadine) (3) vs. D-Unit (Mr_Sith) (3)
    Mace Windu, Ulic Qel-Droma, Vodo Siosk-Baas, Plo Koon, Cay Qel-Droma, Tott Donetta

    vs.

    Darth Vader, Darth Malak, Asajj Ventress, Onimi, Darth Sion, Darth Bane

    Now, this is so easy for me, much, much easier than the team between Madine and SB was in the semis.

    Mace < Darth Vader
    Ulic Qel-Droma > Darth Malak
    Vodo Siosk-Baas < Asajj Ventress
    Plo Koon <<< Onimi
    Cay Qel-Droma <<<< Darth Sion
    Tott Donetta <<<< Darth Bane

    No matter who I face up in one-to-one in the bottom three, there is not one single person in Madine's back three, who can beat any single person on Sith's team. It's a 6 on 3 basically. There's no way Madine's team can possibly win this. Sorry Madine, but this is real easy for me looking at it this way. No team can win a 3 against 6. No team.

    The Winner: D-Unit

    ON WITH THE DRAFT!!!
  24. Zonama_Sockot Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2005
    No team can win a 3 against 6. No team.

    Luke, Yoda and Obi could. :p
  25. bburditt Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2004
    star 5
    WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM ZONAMA?!?!?!!?!?!

    *Sprints full-tilt at Zonama*
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