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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT The Trade Federation's Blockade of Naboo

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by enigmaticjedi, Apr 6, 2015.

  1. mikeximus

    mikeximus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2012
    According to TCW (S6E10), Dooku had the Pykes kill Sifo-Dyas while Sifo-Dyas was on a secret mission for then Chancellor Valorum. Sifo-Dyas was kicked off the Jedi Council prior to the Blockade of Naboo because he had (what his fellow council members felt where) extreme views towards arming the Republic because he foresaw the need for the Republic to have an army. There is nothing to suggest that Sifo Dyas ever felt Clones were the answer. If anything, the episode suggests very, very heavily that it was Dooku that pretended to be Sifo-Dyas in order to place the order for the Clones. This is heavily hinted at because Dooku is sent to tie up his loose ends (by Sidious). That loose end being a personal aide to Valorum that knew that someone wanted Dyas dead so as to pretend to be him. This aide was about to spill the beans when Dooku shows up and force chokes him to death.

    It seems that Sifo Dyas was a victim of his own visions, and that he didn't actually know of the army being ordered. It was ordered after his death. Sifo-Dyas was so vocal of his visions, and that he thought the Republic needed an army, he was the perfect fall guy (patsy) for the Sith to hide behind and ordered the army in his name.




    How so? The Naboo conflict was a small planetary conflict with nothing to suggest a broader, galaxy wide, implication. There was no Republic Army, and as we see in AOTC, the senate wasn't going to willingly vote for one either. The Trade Federation had no where near enough droids to threaten an entire galaxy, which, again is why we see in AOTC the need for all the other Mega Corps to pledge their armies as well. You can't have a war if there is no armies to fight. Palpatine, knowing the Senate would not willingly vote for the creation of an army, has Dooku order the Clone Army, then for the next ten years foster anger against the Republic. When the clone army is ready, Palpatine has Dooku get the separatists army together. This creates the threat that puts emergency powers right into Palpatines hands and gives him the legal right to use the Clone Army, that surprise, surprise was just found by the Jedi.

    Palpatine wanted a ring side seat to see first hand just how powerful Anakin had become. Palpatine's kidnapping was a test for Anakin, a test that would decide if it was time for Palpatine to proceed with the next part(s) of his plan, Order 66 and his new Apprentice and Empire.




    He did it because he was told to do it...



    Palpatine wanted the Jedi to find the Clone Army, Palpatine used the breadcrumb plan to get Obi Wan from point "a" to point "b", to point "c" etc. That was his plan. He never wanted to make any connection between himself and the Clone Army. That is why he (as Sidious) used Dooku pretending to be a Jedi to order the Army, used a Jedi to find the army, used Jedi to lead the army. By making the Jedi such an integral part of the Clone Army, from it's creation to the war, he was able to keep his hands clean and divert any suspicion away from himself. Palpatine was able to politically blame everything on the Jedi, even the start of the war, as they were the ones that took the army to Geonosis to save Obi Wan.

    Palpatine wanted the Jedi to find the army all along, he wasn't going to order it for the behest of anyone. It was Sidious that suggested that ObI Wan guard Padme, knowing that Obi Wan would follow the clues from Naboo, to Kamino, to Geonosis.
     
  2. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    No, he ordered the Clones from Kaminoans before he was killed. Dooku just chose his own template and assumed control:

    Sifo-Dyas was a HumanmaleJedi Master who was a member of the Jedi Council prior to the Invasion of Naboo. He was responsible for the creation of the Grand Army of the Republic but was murdered shortly thereafter by thePyke Syndicate at the behest of the Sith Lord, Darth Tyranus.
    In the last decades of the Galactic Republic, Master Sifo-Dyas was a leading member of the High Council, the governing body of the Jedi Order. However, some time prior to the Invasion of Naboo, tensions arose between Sifo-Dyas and his fellow councilors. Foreseeing an upcoming full-scale conflict, he started advocating for the creation of an army for the Republic. The rest of the High Council deemed his ideas too extreme, and Sifo-Dyas was removed from his position. Even though the other Jedi had rejected his project, he found a way to carry it out without their consent. Sifo-Dyas contacted the Kaminoans, who were reputed for their clone hatcheries, and secretly commissioned them to grow a clone army for the Republic,[1] which he pretended was a request of the Galactic Senate.[2]
    Some time later, Master Sifo-Dyas was assigned on a secret mission byFinis Valorum, the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic himself, who asked him to deal with the Pyke Syndicate. Valorum also asked his personal aide, Silman, to accompany the Jedi on his way to the moon of Oba Diah, where the Pykes were headquartered. However, Sifo-Dyas was never able to complete the Chancellor's mission, as the High Council called him to deal with another conflict: on Felucia, a skirmish had broken out between the local tribes, and Sifo-Dyas was assigned to quell the conflict. As a consequence, both Sifo-Dyas and Silman were diverted to Felucia aboardT-6 shuttle 77519.[1]

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sifo-Dyas/Canon
     
  3. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Problem is - both those cite notes (The Lost One, and AOTC) don't support the notion that he was the real contacter of the Kaminoans. Remember Wookieepedia is a fan wiki - not everything said on it, not even on the "canon pages" is fully supported.

    Maybe Ultimate Star Wars, coming out next week, will confirm or deny Sifo Dyas's initial involvement.
     
  4. mikeximus

    mikeximus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2012

    As Iron_lord has already pointed out, TCW and AOTC does not support that Wiki one bit.

    In fact, as I said earlier, S6E10 of TCW has Silman telling Obi Wan and Anakin that Sifo-Dyas was killed because someone powerful wanted to be him.

    Silman: [cackles] Sifo-Dyas? He died.Died, died, died, died. Tricked, we were. The Pykes are not to be trusted. Oh, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. But the Pykes were not the ones. No, no, the Pykes were not the reason.
    Anakin: Who was responsible?
    Silman: Someone powerful, someone who who wanted to be Sifo-Dyas.
    Obi Wan:Why?
    Silman: All is deception. [chuckles] Can't you see? Because because (Silman is force choked to death by Dooku before he can finish..)

    So here we have the dialogue right from the episode where Silman says that while the Pykes are not to be trusted, they weren't the reason why Sifo-Dyas was killed (even though they carried out the deed). The reason he was killed as Silman then says, is because someone powerful wanted to be Sifo-Dyas for the purpose of deception.

    No where in S6E10 does it say that Sifo-Dyas ordered the army. The only thing that comes close is that at the beginning of the episode, the Jedi are still under the belief that Sifo-Dyas did it, but, by the end they realize that it is the Sith that in fact ordered the army. The Jedi are still under that impression because they have been deceived, deceived by someone pretending to be Sifo-Dyas.... See how it works?
     
  5. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Kaminoans and Fett knew of Dooku as only Tyranus and referred to him as such, never as Dyas or Dooku, so I don't know exactly what you're talking about. You guys can agree with eachother all you like, but in the end you're both wrong. Same info is found in the toon:




    Even the official databank:

    SIFO-DYAS
    A member of the Jedi Council before the blockade of Naboo, Sifo-Dyas believed the galaxy would soon be plunged into war, and agitated for the Republic to create an army for its defense. After the other Jedi rejected his ideas and removed him from the council, he secretly contacted the Kaminoans and commissioned them to create a clone army, which he led the Kaminoans to believe was for the Republic. In doing so, Sifo-Dyas became an unwitting pawn of the Sith, who took over the project and hired the Pyke Syndicate to murder Sifo-Dyas on Oba Diah’s moon. A decade after Sifo-Dyas’ death, Obi-Wan Kenobi discovered the army he had commissioned, now ready for duty. The Jedi took control of this army on Supreme Chancellor Palpatine’s orders, setting the Clone Wars in motion.

    http://www.starwars.com/databank/sifo-dyas

    S
     
  6. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Those quotes from the beginning of the episode just show what the Jedi assume that happened. At the end they reach the conclusion that their enemy (the Sith) created an army for them (the Republic).

    Also, how could Sifo-Dyas comission a clone army without a template to be cloned? Jango was hired by Tyranus, and Tyranus was only involved after Sifo-Dyas was killed. There's no indication in the episode that Sifo-Dyas ever made contact with the Kaminoans. If he had managed to contact them, nobody would be able to pose as him.
     
  7. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Sifo-Dyas may have made the initial contacts in most general terms, just seeing how much it would cost, if it could be done, how long it would take etc - then gets removed from the equation. Up steps Tyranus (or another patsy) who tells them 'Yep, Sifo-Dyas, that's me,' presents Jango as the template and off we go.
     
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  8. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    But if that had happened, once he presents himself to the Kaminoans, they know who he is. There would be no chance for anyone else to pretend to be him. It's established in the episode that that was the reason for why he was killed.
     
  9. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Well, even if it was just the one Kaminoan he made the first contact with then it's hardly insurmountable.

    K: You're not Sifo-Dyas.
    Dooku: [waves hand] Yes I am, you must have forgotten.
    K: Yes, you are, I must have forgotten.

    BOOM.
     
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  10. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    There's no reason to assume that Sifo-Dyas ever met with the Kaminoans face-to-face. He could have inquired about making an army via a voice call or text communication. Very handy if he wanted to remain circumspect.
     
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  11. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    The way I see it, Sidious had complete control over the Trade Federation. He had arranged the Neimoidian monopoly through his dry, nasty scheme during Cloak of Deception. He pretty much said, "You see, Viceroy, you serve yourselves best when you serve me." It's like, "Either you can work with me, or I can be your worst enemy." He could have could Nute to back off or he could have screwed him in some other way. He loves drama, deception, and sadism, as we all know.
     
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