Amph The Transformers. More than meets the eye!

Discussion in 'Community' started by HL&S, Jan 7, 2006.

  1. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    star 10
    Jolt's a bad example- I don't think he's even in the movie until the one scene at the end.

    Megatron and Starscream did get two or three ok scenes in ROTF, but they were mostly one line exchanges- more lip service to their characterizations than actual characterization.

    Not to mention their best one ("There is no command but mine.") is literally negated in the literalnext scene by having Megs subserviant to The Fallen.
  2. GenAntilles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2007
    star 4
    Don't remind me about the fact that Megatron obeyed the Fallen. That would be like the new superman movie having General Zod say "Kneel before Zod!" right before he asks Brainiac for his orders.

    Let me rephrase my point then, I want more Transformer characterization. :p
  3. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    I'll settle for a movie that isn't a sex joke every 30 seconds. How about a movie that rises above potty humor?
  4. GenAntilles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2007
    star 4
    Let's be realistic here. :p
  5. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    Yah know, the G1 Autobots-and especially the G1 Decepticons-were pretty two-note at best sometimes.

    And I say this after having watched the entire season one and about two-thirds of season two of G1 and reviewing it for another message board.
  6. Chipster92 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2008
    star 1
    Well, I must say, that although the Transformers movies haven't been the best(I enjoyed the first one, the second one gave me a headache from facepalming too many times), from what I'm seeing in the trailers, this third film looks to be an improvement(tone-wise at least). It seems that using the 3D cameras has caused Bay to tone down his trademark "shakey cam" style, for something where you can actually SEE the action and know who's fighting who. All the action scenes look well staged and clearly shot.

    It also seems like there's less of that juvenille, high school humor that kind of plagued the first two films(especially the second). Things look relatively serious and bleak here (more like War of the Worlds instead of ID4). It actually looks like a full out Decepticon invasion, and Earth is getting it's butt kicked! We also see a quick shot of Sam pointing a gun at someone or something. I wonder what would prompt this? In the first two movies, the only thing he did was run around and scream, now he's actually getting into the action and doing something for once.

    The only issue so far from what I see is the new girl. What's the point of having her there? I know Bay fired Megan Fox, but if they couldn't work things out with her, and still wanted to have a female lead, they could have at least brought back a character we know ( like the cute Austrailian hacker chick from the first movie), or just have Sam be alone this time, instead of shoehorning in some random girl he's just met and expect the audience to care. It screws up the continuity and makes Megan's character look like a total bitch for leaving after all of the crazy crap they went through together. I hope the filmmakers come up with a good excuse for her absence, and don't just say that she simply broke up with him. I mean, they saved the world TWICE now, you would think that would bring two people together instead of apart, lol.

    Aside from that, the movie looks pretty decent. i'm hoping it doesn't suck.
  7. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    I like that at least it's Carly, but it does annoy me given how much of the second movie was about "Will she dump Sam?".


    It's the small moments that sneak in sometimes that goes beyind the obvious play of the characters. Megs/Screa,mer in the first episode talking about the nature of power, Prime's comment in one episoe about "I always worry about Decepticons", Screamer's change in voice around Skyfire, etc.

    Granted, the cartoon didn't get to do too much beyond some parameters (and the myth-heavy episodes usually stand out as better sources than the Season 2 syndication churned-out standalones) until the movie. And even then, it's really the broader strokes of the G1 characters from the comics that provides the most depth of characterization.

    The "More Than Meets the Eye" handbooks should be the bible for the beginnings of any G1-inspired TF movie, IMO.
  8. Zebra3 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2004
    star 5
    Remember, we still don't know what happened to Mikaela. I'm hoping that she was killed by the Decepticons rather than it being a straight break up between the two. And maybe Sam feels guilty for not being able to protect her. Maybe that's why he's so desperate to help that chick in the trailer.

    Just speculation on my part, but you never know.
  9. Chipster92 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2008
    star 1


    Oh, wow! I wasn't aware at all that the new girl was supposed to actually be Carly! That changes things a little. I like that they are using a bit more of the G1 lore, but it might be a little too late in the game to be bringing her in, especially since this is apparantly Bay's last TF movie. Maybe instead of creating the Mikaela character, Bay and the screenwrtiters could have had Carly be Sam's best friend/confidante from the beginning, and have their relationship naturally grow throughout the three movies, until the third, when they would finally get together. That would have been good character development for both Sam and her, with their experiences with the Autobots strengthening them as people and bringing them closer and closer together.

    Now, with the direction Bay's decided to go with, they're probably going to rush all of this stuff and have Sam say "I love You" to this new girl that him and the audience have just met and don't have prior feelings for at all. It's too bad when they could have had this subtle romantic subplot developing through the trilogy and culminating in the end, but we all know that subtlety isn't what Michael Bay is known for. In fact, he has all the subtlety of a gas explosion! lol. It's sad when the fans can come up with better plotlines and stories for the films than the actual filmmakers.

    And couldn't they have a cast a, I don't know, more "normal" looking girl to play Carly? So far, all of the girls that Sam has been with have been unrealistically hot, supermodel type women. I know that's probably a wish-fullfillment thing on the the part of the writers(nerd gets the hot chick), but from what I remember from G1, Carly was just as much of a nerd as Sam/"Spike" was. They could have cast an actress who was more of a "cute girl-next-door/nerdy chick" type of hot(personality-wise, i'm thinking more like Willow from Buffy, Fred from Angel or Kaylee from Firefly), instead of just another "pornstar/Exotic Supermodel" type.
  10. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    Except that would have been Character Devolopment, and Subtle/subtlety, two things for which Michael Bay is not known, and which the writers had no clue about. (actually, the Writers nave no clue about a lot, but I am convinced they are utterly ignorant of the concept of Subtle). What next? Do you want Lucas to actually make a good movie? Sheesh. That would be like expectiong Episode 3 to be good after seening 1 and 2. How about Shia LeBouff not sucking? I haven't seen that since "Holes".
  11. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    Like I said, two-notes. there were some good moments for a lot of the characters, but they rarely got expanded on and sometimes there was even backpedaling.

    Most of the Decepticons never rose much beyond 'thug' or 'loyal thug'.

    The comment from Prime was from 'War of the Dinobots', btw. Good episode, there. Liked Grimlock showing quite possibly the only moment of humility... ever and Prime shaking his hand. But again, he reverted to type pretty quickly after.

    And... time marches on. G1 is not the end-all be-all of TF and nor should it be. The movies should not be expected to adhere to them the extent some of you folks say it should.
  12. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    Look at Beast Wars.
    OK, that's like 15 years old at this point... But it continued the existing mythology and expanded it greatly. And had depth and characterization.

    Then there was Beast Machines, which sucked beyond the telling because the guy in charge "Had a Vision", and screwed it all up to make the characters fit. All of it based on the lamest eps of the old cartoon ane Evangillion-type anime.

    Still, at least Beast Machines was still more intelligent than the Bay movies.
  13. Chipster92 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2008
    star 1
    Yeah, to actually have character development and subtlety would require better writers, better actors, and a better director than what we are getting now. It's a shame, these movies have so much potential that's not being fully realized under the current production team. Sure, the visuals are sometimes impressive and the action is occasionally thrilling, but it could so much better! I hope someday in the future, when this franchise is inevitably rebooted, we are given a director and writers who know know how to properly balance good story and character development with amazing visuals and action scenes.
  14. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    I think a lot of that had to do with the format shift- Season 1 was almost one big serial, then Season 2 was all stand-alones with only a few mythology episodes sprinkled about (a result of needing to produce so many episodes at the same time as others before they were all written), then 3 tried to find a post-movie balance and we at least got some development with Rodimus which made for an interesting character arc...until they gave into the fans wanting Optimus back and had to suddenly make Rodimus a terrible leader to justify Optimus's return to leadership (the backpedaling you refer to, I assume).
  15. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Catching up on the past couple episodes of Prime. Great bit with Starscream:

    (end of episode, after being specifically told early in the episode to start calling Starscream by the "Lord" title)

    "My mistake, Commander Starscream- but I've learned my lesson, and paid the price..."
    "IT. IS. LORRRRRRRRRD!"
  16. GenAntilles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2007
    star 4
    My favorite was his "All Hail Starscream." at the end of the 5-part miniseries. I have to hand it to this show, they actually made Starscream into someone I could see leading the Decepticons.
  17. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Just a note- not only are there midnights tonight, but some theaters have even earlier showtimes for their 3D screens (I'm catching a 9PM 3D tonight- the 12:01 showing is 2D only).
  18. Rox Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2000
    star 6
    The studio wouldn't let us do any 2D shows but the 3D shows did get ok'd for us to show them starting at 9pm. Chances are though if you see the 9pm show you won't have trailers on it since the movie is almost 3 hours long and they will need to use the theater for a midnight show directly after. We're doing midnights of both the 2D and 3D though.
  19. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    My theater had trailers at the showing- but then, they usually show the same 3D trailers/pre-show for all 3D movies (currently 3 Musketeers, Conan and one of the Cap trailers- maybe one other, I forget). The great relief is they can now stop showing that blasted moon landing teaser to Transformers that they've show before every 3D movie since December!

    Just got back.... I have a range of reactions to this but it is the best of the three movies and does a decent job of tying together stuff like explaining where the other autobots came from (though some things like the Sentinel/Megatron backstory doesn't really make any sense in relation to the first film's backstory, and as awesome as Alan Tudyk is as Dutch, his role really should have been filled by one of the hackers from the first film, which would have actually improved the first movie).

    This film at leats draws upon a lot of obvious source material inspirations, even though none of them are really developed to any degree where they have the impact they could (they are clearly drawing upon things like the Ark from G1, the Ark II scenario from Dreamwave, All Hail Megatron from IDW, the Decepticon ending to the first movie's video game and The Ultimate Doom from G1).

    On the human front, Carly is generic and, outside of her job, is no different in function than Fox's character was. Malkovich was good, though (but vanishes after 15 minutes, so, he really contributes little to the film). The human bad guy was a nice addition part of the time. The parents are minimized here and the NEST soldiers are action dressing (and there is one stupid scene where one of Tyrese's soliders complains that "he didn't sign up for this", citing being shot at by aliens, etc...when, in fact, given how they came together, it is what he signed up for- they're infiltrating a city held by hostile alien machines!). The "we are invaded/surrender" plot element for Earth also happens in a blink of an eye without a fight too.

    There are some great sequences- the toppling building, the DC car chase (which finally delivers what we actually expected from having Michael Bay direct these movies!), the squirrel suits, etc.

    But, some of the traditional problems still persist- the robot designs are still generally terrible (though at least Sentinel Prime has a bit more going for him) and actually almost ruin a couple scenes that would actually be very awesome if we had any idea what was actually happening on screen with the swirling masses of scrap metal (the stuff with Sideswipe and Ironhide leading up to, during and after the mexican standoff looks like some awesome moves taking place, but you really just can't tell (even in slow motion!!) what the characters are doing- you just see the beginning and end and essentially get what can only be described as a slow motion fast forward in between- they might as well cut to a $10 million soda can for 10 seconds).

    They also still don't trust the robot characters to be treated as actual characters- they're still either window dressing or generic monsters. So don't expect any of them to be developed to any degree (the only exception is the Optimus/Sentimnel material to some degree). This is all perfectly encapsulated by the line of dialogue "We have five targets and Shockwave below us."

    Optimus and Sentinel get 90% of the screen time, Bumblbee is still there often, though. Sideswipe gets about twice the screen time and dialogue he had last time (so, still not much). Ratchet and Ironhide are basically one-scene cameos. There's a red car that looks like Bumblebee when om bot mode so i'm guesisng he's a latino Cliffjumper? You don't really hear his name clearly. There's some mad scientist character that I have no clue about (Wheekjack?). The racist Twins are thankfully gone, though Arcee and Volt are missing (but then, was Volt ever really there to begin with? ;)). Wheelie has a new unnamed sidekick and they're not bad together (and do zero leg humping). The Wreckers are fun, but not there much.

    The Decepticons are again short=
  20. Magellan_the_Cat Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 4
    Sounds like the movie still sucked, pretty much as expected. No wonder they made sure it had the 7/4 weekend. Otherwise is would have had absolutely nothing going for it.

    Well, as you said, hopefully now the series will be rebooted in the hands of someone remotely competent.
    Though I do love the youtube video of the EMS vehicle crashing into bumblebee.
  21. Chipster92 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2008
    star 1
    I saw the film a few days ago. Honestly, I have to say, it wasn't too bad. I quite enjoyed it actually. There were still a few stupid moments(Ken Jeong's character), but overall from the point when Sentinel Prime(brilliantly voiced by Leonard Nimoy), betrays the Autobots to the end of the final battle in Chicago, the movie was pretty dark and serious. I would have to say it's the best of the trilogy(which may not be saying much for some people). The Action sequences were top notch here as well. Bay finally learned how to slow down the camera and pull it back so we can actually SEE the robot fights. I was surprised to see that most of the Decepticons were actually killed in this movie, even a lot of the important ones( Megatron, Starscream, Soundwave). The one death that I didn't like was Shockwave. The mareketing had hyped him up a lot, and now I realize he was just a red herring to keep Sentinel Prime's betrayal a secret, but they could've at least gave him something to do!! His "Driller" pet had more screentime than him, hell LASERBEAK( who ended up being the stand out Decepticon) had more to do. Seriously, when Optimus Prime killed him like he was nothing, I felt like this:

    [IMG]

    But other than that, the movie was an entertaining,fun action-fest.
  22. GenAntilles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2007
    star 4
    Haven't seen the movie yet... but if Megatron, and all the main Decepticons are dead... A certain Orson Welles voiced planet eater resurrecting them into Galvatron, Cyclonus, the Sweeps seems like a logical next step.
  23. Chipster92 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2008
    star 1
    If they decide to go that route, it's gonna have to be with a different director and filmmaking team. Bay has repeatedly said that this is his LAST Transformers movie. He wants to move on to something else.
  24. GenAntilles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2007
    star 4
    Yeah Shia isn't coming back either. But I don't they'll stop making more movies, they'll milk it for all it's worth.
  25. Magellan_the_Cat Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 4
    Yeah Shia isn't coming back either. But I don't they'll stop making more movies, they'll milk it for all it's worth.[/quote]

    Wow, so they're ditching two of the biggest albatrosses around the franchise's neck.
    There may be hope for the next film after all.
    Maybe they can hire some of the writers from MainFrame.ca to do the next one...