The True Order -- planning thread

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by JediGaladriel, Nov 13, 2001.

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  1. DarthIshtar Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
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    What in the heck is APA format?

    <--thanks heavens that in under 2 months, she won't have to think about school for 18 months, and that in 1 week, she'll be 21, and that in 2 days, she's going home to Boston for Thanksgiving, and in 4.5 hours, she's seeing Harry Potter.

    So, any more ideas, peeps?
  2. BelleBayard TFN Fan Fiction Archive Editor

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    American Psychology Association - the format any students working toward a BS have to write their papers in. Yuck! As per the usual, the manual is extremely user unfriendly and professors each have their own individual requests as to exactly what they want on the paper (picking and choosing what parts they want to see). *sigh* Again, I'd much rather write fanfic.
  3. JediGaladriel Manager Emeritus

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    That's what I hated most about school -- they wasted my keyboard time with enforced bad writing.

    Anyway, to get back to planning, I'll put up the steps of the hero's journey (Campbell via Christopher Vogler). One of the weaknesses with T.O. was that there was no clear sense being built of whose story it was. But I think you guys are right... Luke is the one who seems best for this, with the others filling other roles. Leia is more flamboyant, but it's Luke who needs to grow into his role. I think we may have to go back to the beginning and insert a few things.


    Ordinary World -- the life of the hero. Something is missing or incomplete, but it is a full world to the hero (I think more needs to be said about Luke's life)

    Call to adventure -- news comes that something is out of whack, or a herald arrives... the hero is called to his/her quest (Obviously, this is Amidala's arrival)

    Refusal of the call -- but there are so many other things to do! And they are all more important, and at any rate, I'm not suited to this... (the scene where he lets Leia talk him into not going to Coruscant to rescue Yoda)

    Meeting the mentor -- The wise old woman/man takes the hero under her/his wing, and give instructions and tools for the quest. Often includes a gift of some sort. (This is what I meant with the Anakin ghost scene.)

    Crossing the first threshold -- the hero leaves his or her world, getting through the first threshold guardian.

    Tests, allies, and enemies -- those met along the road (this and the next section tend to be kind of long)

    Approach to the inmost cave -- the road becomes narrower, the path darker

    Supreme ordeal -- a trial by fire

    Reward (seizing the sword) -- the hero claims the reward of the supreme ordeal, whatever it might be

    The Road back -- it is time to make one's way back the village

    Resurrection -- a final confrontation with the Challenge, in which the lessons of the entire quest are used to vanquish it forever; often includes the symbolic death and rebirth of the hero (this is actually that big, multipronged battle that occurs in each of the movies, and which I personally really like a device -- here, I think we've got the issue of the personal fight between Kenobi and the Skywalkers, the warfare of a revolt that... well, how about if the revolt becomes generalized, not just the slaves but all the people who have been feeling disenfranchised?), and Amidala's rescue of Yoda. That could break down into Luke-Anakin vs. Obi-Wan, Han and Lando in the "big" war, and Leia and Amidala on the rescue (probably fighting with each other every step of the way, but coming to some kind of truce?).)

    Return with the elixir -- the Challenge bested, the hero brings the much needed "cure" to her/his society. I think this would be helpful in the planning stage. How is this society going to be "cured"? What are the problems in this setup that need to be solved?

    I wonder about Obi-Wan and Anakin and so on. I wrote above kind of casually Luke-Anakin vs. Obi-Wan, but that could be part of the key to both Anakin and Obi-Wan. What if Anakin is acting as a mentor to Luke, but needs to be able to act more directly? The ghost-Anakin isn't just Anakin; he's all the murdered Jedi. What if we work them into some kind of situation where Kenobi needs more power to accomplish something good than he has on his own, and, after fighting any communication with Anakin and Qui-Gon -- thinking of Belle's scene here -- he opens himself up, not necessarily physically dying, but giving up some of his "self-ness" in order to let all the others become integrated into him?
  4. DarthIshtar Chosen One

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    Mar 26, 2001
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    I love the Campbell Hero's Journey; I studied it when I was writing my paper on the two gates from Hell in the Aeneid. Coherent commentary on it later.
  5. BelleBayard TFN Fan Fiction Archive Editor

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    That's what I hated most about school -- they wasted my keyboard time with enforced bad writing.


    So true. At least writing fiction has given me better skills that have helped with writing dry technical things and making them more interesting.

    Anyway, to get back to planning, I'll put up the steps of the hero's journey (Campbell via Christopher Vogler). One of the weaknesses with T.O. was that there was no clear sense being built of whose story it was. But I think you guys are right... Luke is the one who seems best for this, with the others filling other roles. Leia is more flamboyant, but it's Luke who needs to grow into his role. I think we may have to go back to the beginning and insert a few things.


    Ordinary World -- the life of the hero. Something is missing or incomplete, but it is a full world to the hero (I think more needs to be said about Luke's life)


    I agree. Leia's life has been explored to a greater extent than Luke's. What exactly is his role? Is he a tinkerer like Anakin or more into the moisture farming aspect? Has he already begun to feel those stirrings of the Force? (I really need to go back and read from the beginning again.)


    Call to adventure -- news comes that something is out of whack, or a herald arrives... the hero is called to his/her quest (Obviously, this is Amidala's arrival)


    Agreed. This is where she tries to talk both Luke and Leia into rescuing Yoda. More than likely, both will require her to give some proof that the Jedi Master needs assistance.

    Refusal of the call -- but there are so many other things to do! And they are all more important, and at any rate, I'm not suited to this... (the scene where he lets Leia talk him into not going to Coruscant to rescue Yoda)


    Yeah, Leia can be quite persuasive when she puts her mind to it. I can see her saying something to the effect of "Yoda can take care of himself. He's a Jedi Master. These people don't have anyone to help them. It's more important to stay here and do what we can than to go off on what's probably a wild bantha chase."

    Meeting the mentor -- The wise old woman/man takes the hero under her/his wing, and give instructions and tools for the quest. Often includes a gift of some sort. (This is what I meant with the Anakin ghost scene.)


    Anakin could appear to Luke, telling his son he must follow Amidala's call and help Yoda escape Obi-Wan's distorted world. If Luke protests that Ani had not wanted to get involved in the events on Coruscant, his father could tell him he realizes he hadn't really changed anything with his flight from the Jedi, merely the players involved.

    Crossing the first threshold -- the hero leaves his or her world, getting through the first threshold guardian.


    Hmmm... first threshold guardian. Is this literal or symbolic? Would it be someone on Tatooine, related or a friend, who objects to them leaving the aftermaths of the movement Leia started? Or is it the fears of leaving the only home Luke and Leia have ever known?

    Tests, allies, and enemies -- those met along the road (this and the next section tend to be kind of long)


    Obviously, this means they don't have a direct way to Coruscant but must make stops along their route.

    Approach to the inmost cave -- the road becomes narrower, the path darker


    Fighting their way through the Dark Jedi in the Temple and the inherent pain of seeing those so sadly corrupted.

    Supreme ordeal -- a trial by fire


    Luke facing Obi-Wan and terrible parody of the scenes in ANH. In this Luke, refuses to battle the one who should have been his master as he refused to kill Vader in ROTJ. Instead, he pulls on an unknown strength to blind Obi-Wan and flee to Yoda.

    Reward (seizing the sword) -- the hero claims the reward of the supreme ordeal, whatever it might be


    Rescuin
  6. DarthIshtar Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
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    "That's what I hated most about school -- they wasted my keyboard time with enforced bad writing.


    So true. At least writing fiction has given me better skills that have helped with writing dry technical things and making them more interesting."

    A lot of people have praised my skills in detailed emotive content and thought-out process in my stories and I have only one person to thank for that--a fantastic teacher named Karen Elliott. Until 11th grade, I was unfocused in my paper-writing and had trouble making my point clear. At the end of my World Lit class, every student in my english class went on a 6-week internship except for me (I was a junior, they were seniors). Mrs. E gave me a movie called Cinema Paradiso and after having me watch it three times, she told me to take a five-minute scene and write my entire paper using nothing else. It taught me to focus and see far deeper than I'd ever had to before.

    "One of the weaknesses with T.O. was that there was no clear sense being built of whose story it was. But I think you guys are right... Luke is the one who seems best for this, with the others filling other roles. Leia is more flamboyant, but it's Luke who needs to grow into his role. I think we may have to go back to the beginning and insert a few things."

    Leia is a natural-born gungho leader, if a bit misdirected. Luke certainly needs to realize his potential for filling an equally important role in the shaping of history. He has a degree of confidence, but seems to be living a bit in Leia's shadow.

    "Ordinary World -- the life of the hero. Something is missing or incomplete, but it is a full world to the hero (I think more needs to be said about Luke's life)


    I agree. Leia's life has been explored to a greater extent than Luke's. What exactly is his role? Is he a tinkerer like Anakin or more into the moisture farming aspect? Has he already begun to feel those stirrings of the Force? (I really need to go back and read from the beginning again.)"

    I think we definitely need to establish what his inherent tendency is (though I do believe he would be a tinkerer--"He's got too much of his father in him"). The Force ability needs to be further explored. Is it a latent ability that was certainly there but not necessarily relied on? Sort of like Harry Potter's wizarding abilities or Luke in ANH? Does he require a prod or is he already in the path of the Jedi? How far did Anakin go, if at all? Did he train his children at all or hold back in fear that they might end up like Obi-Wan or the dark man in his dreams?

    "Call to adventure -- news comes that something is out of whack, or a herald arrives... the hero is called to his/her quest (Obviously, this is Amidala's arrival)

    Agreed. This is where she tries to talk both Luke and Leia into rescuing Yoda. More than likely, both will require her to give some proof that the Jedi Master needs assistance."

    There also needs to be that mitigating factor, the thing that unites them in purpose, sort of like Luke's return from the homestead in ANH.

    "Refusal of the call -- but there are so many other things to do! And they are all more important, and at any rate, I'm not suited to this... (the scene where he lets Leia talk him into not going to Coruscant to rescue Yoda)


    Yeah, Leia can be quite persuasive when she puts her mind to it. I can see her saying something to the effect of "Yoda can take care of himself. He's a Jedi Master. These people don't have anyone to help them. It's more important to stay here and do what we can than to go off on what's probably a wild bantha chase.""

    Leave it to Leia to be the cynic. I can definitely see that.

    "Meeting the mentor -- The wise old woman/man takes the hero under her/his wing, and give instructions and tools for the quest. Often includes a gift of some sort. (This is what I meant with the Anakin ghost scene.)

    Anakin could appear to Luke, telling his son he must follow Amidala's call and help Yoda escape Obi-Wan's distorted world. If Luke protests that Ani had not wanted to get involve
  7. DarthIshtar Chosen One

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    Mar 26, 2001
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    UP! Is anyone out there?
  8. JediGaladriel Manager Emeritus

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    Sep 3, 1999
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    Aagh. I knew I was forgetting something.

    Gotta do some archive stuff, then I'll get to this.
  9. DarthIshtar Chosen One

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    Mar 26, 2001
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    Okay. Hope to see some stuff up here after my concert.
  10. JediGaladriel Manager Emeritus

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    Sep 3, 1999
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    Ordinary World -- the life of the hero. Something is missing or incomplete, but it is a full world to the hero (I think more needs to be said about Luke's life)


    I agree. Leia's life has been explored to a greater extent than Luke's. What exactly is his role? Is he a tinkerer like Anakin or more into the moisture farming aspect? Has he already begun to feel those stirrings of the Force? (I really need to go back and read from the beginning again.)


    I'd guess that he's much more of a tinkerer -- they're right in the city. We know that both twins race for Watto, so I'd guess he uses them as sort of a two-for-the-price-of-one Anakin replacement. Does he like it? Does it suit him?

    His other position seems to be as the stable center of the house. He takes care of Kit and is sort of the magnetic draw of the family. So where is his life incomplete? What is his call to adventure? What is his personal "cure"?

    And, more prosaically, what scenes can we insert to improve the feel of the character?


    Call to adventure -- news comes that something is out of whack, or a herald arrives... the hero is called to his/her quest (Obviously, this is Amidala's arrival)


    Agreed. This is where she tries to talk both Luke and Leia into rescuing Yoda. More than likely, both will require her to give some proof that the Jedi Master needs assistance


    Well, that's one of the scenes that's already written, though I guess they could grill her a bit more about why Yoda needs rescue. That's right around the point when I suddenly shifted gears, so there's a lot of dropped threads in that area.


    Refusal of the call -- but there are so many other things to do! And they are all more important, and at any rate, I'm not suited to this... (the scene where he lets Leia talk him into not going to Coruscant to rescue Yoda)

    Yeah, Leia can be quite persuasive when she puts her mind to it. I can see her saying something to the effect of "Yoda can take care of himself. He's a Jedi Master. These people don't have anyone to help them. It's more important to stay here and do what we can than to go off on what's probably a wild bantha chase."


    I think her line was more along the line of "Why should we risk our lives for the teacher of father's murderer?" Luke's likely to come up with reasoning on his own about who needs help and who doesn't.


    Meeting the mentor -- The wise old woman/man takes the hero under her/his wing, and give instructions and tools for the quest. Often includes a gift of some sort. (This is what I meant with the Anakin ghost scene.)

    Anakin could appear to Luke, telling his son he must follow Amidala's call and help Yoda escape Obi-Wan's distorted world. If Luke protests that Ani had not wanted to get involved in the events on Coruscant, his father could tell him he realizes he hadn't really changed anything with his flight from the Jedi, merely the players involved.


    Actually, that's one scene I sort of like as it stands. The one thing I'd like to add is the bequeathing of some kind of gift -- is there anything that Ani may have stashed at Sanctuary that he can now give to Luke?


    Crossing the first threshold -- the hero leaves his or her world, getting through the first threshold guardian.

    Hmmm... first threshold guardian. Is this literal or symbolic? Would it be someone on Tatooine, related or a friend, who objects to them leaving the aftermaths of the movement Leia started? Or is it the fears of leaving the only home Luke and Leia have ever known?


    In SW, it's usually literal, but not necessarily. Leia sort of functions in the role of Threshold Guardian -- she prevents them from leaving Tatooine. But I think someone less ambiguous -- the folks holding the ship back, possibly.


    Tests, allies, and enemies -- those met along the road (this and the next section tend to be kind of long)


    Obviously, this means they don't have a direct way to Coruscant but must make stops along their route.

    Well, they have
  11. BelleBayard TFN Fan Fiction Archive Editor

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    JG: Had a feeling this got lost in the shuffle. ;)

    DI: Break a leg with your concert (in the performing arts manner of speaking). I forget, what do you play?
  12. DarthIshtar Chosen One

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    I play viola. Very badly, but I play viola. I just got back from the concert. It went relatively well, but four of my fingers are charcoal grey (it's what happens when I play hard because of the strings I use) and one of them has a cut on the left side from being too enthusiastic during the Tchaikovsky March Slave.
  13. BelleBayard TFN Fan Fiction Archive Editor

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    Ah... Another of the famous unfinished projects. Not being mean, just grinning at the fact I'm not the only one with a story hanging out there. :D [face_laugh] Hmmm... Wonder if there's an 'unfinished story' heaven out there where all these poor orphans go to spend time in limbo. ;)
  14. DarthIshtar Chosen One

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    Mar 26, 2001
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    Are we going to do this story? I like it; I wish someone would. Of course, as soon as I leave, it'll get kickstarted. ::sighs::
  15. JediGaladriel Manager Emeritus

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    My problem is that it's sort of slipped out of my head. I'm hoping it's temporary.
  16. BelleBayard TFN Fan Fiction Archive Editor

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    Heh... slippery stories sliding right outta my brain... must have a ton... Hmmmm... Teflon minds... Sorry, just watching Yellow Submarine and getting punchy from being up too long and working on my papers for my BSN.
  17. DarthIshtar Chosen One

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    I'm winding up my last semester before my mission and can't wait for this week to be over, even though it means finals are soon.
  18. DarthIshtar Chosen One

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    Well, what's up on this thread? I have 1 month and 5 days left and I would love to get a post for Christmas or going-away present.
  19. BelleBayard TFN Fan Fiction Archive Editor

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    Dunno. I think JG's gotten derailed on this story. She's working on several at the moment, I believe. I'm up to my eyeballs in school work so I'm sort of out of the loop of creative writing except the urk... paper kind. Yuck! I'd rather do fanfic any day, but such are the sacrifices if you want to get ahead in one's profession.
  20. DarthIshtar Chosen One

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    I agree. I'd rather do fanfic than anything else, but evil finals are next week. This is, however, my second-to-last day of classes. I'm so excited!
  21. JediGaladriel Manager Emeritus

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    Yes, I'm definitely derailed.
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